I feel bad and confused.

[Careco]

I´ve thought about this a lot for a couple of years now. At first years ago I wanted to be a boy.

Now I have accepted myself as both, girl and boy. Dunno really a right word for that really. They tend to change depending on day. But still I feel like I´m not just happy with myself. 

I hate my chest. Boobs, breasts, etc. I hate the size, how they look and feel. I don´t like bras, I can´t wear a binder. I hate that I have to wear a shirt everywhere, even if it were too hot.

I hate periods (who doesn´t...). 

I feel like I just want to be neutral. Get rid of some feminity.

 

I just told my mom that I wanted to find out more about stuff like this. To go talk to a professional. A real one. Not my bad psychologist, who thinks all my problems would be solved with a proper relationship and sex. I thought I´d tell my mom before I start calling a professional.

 

She was okay with it when I first told her that I´m not exactly female. But...

 

The thing is... my mom is now crying. She was just saying "no" to me. I told her I wasn´t going to change my gender or anything. (Because I don´t need to.)

She doesn´t want to listen to me, doesn´t want to talk about this or anything. Said asked why I couldn´t be just happy as I am. That I need new friends who don´t change me. Even though outside world has little to do with this thing. 

 

I feel bad that I made her cry. Even thought my mom is a little difficult anyway. She is always right. She never apologizes. She can do no wrong. It´s a little hard for me to decide anything if she just cries everytime like I just murdered her dog.

 

Now I have to see her tomorrow. It´s gonna be damn awkward. 

 

Meanwhile waiting for a drunken phone call from my sister, because mom is crying because of me.  ( I sometimes hate this family.)

 

Sorry for typos or funny words. I don´t care.  I don´t speak english.

 

 

[Careco]

....

 

 

• (┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻

[Careco]

Also sorry if I posted this in the wrong place.

[Rosendust]

Have you thought of the label Demiguy?

[Careco]

Haven´t really thought about labels. I guess that can be a possibility. 

Sometimes I feel more like a girl and sometimes I have a boy feeling. (weird sentence alert.)

 

But definitely not okay with my boobs. Or if someone calls me little girl, girlie, etc. 

She is fine or he, but here where I live almost everyone calls each other "it", so... and she and he are the same word in my language anyway.

 

[K.I.N.G]

Perhaps look at bi-gender. 

 

Its sad your mother isn’t listening but if it is a bit of a shock to her perhaps she come around  once she’s calmed down a little - she really should be a more mature one in this situation.

 

Good luck to you and going for professional help is sensible.

[Scottthespy]

Sounds like you're in a tough situation. The way you say you'll 'have to see her tomorrow' makes me think you don't live with her? In this case what you do with your life is none of her business, she doesn't get to make those decisions for you. If you just want to reduce the femininity of your body, you should be able to do that according to your own tastes, not any one elses. 

 

There are, of course, surgeries that can get rid of breasts and periods completely, but doctors won't do them unless its for medical reasons. There are apparently ways to reduce a period by messing with birth control, but I've never been fully convinced that won't have long term repercussions. You COULD, however, get a breast reduction to minimize the size of your chest to a point where a binder could help, if you can save up the money, and go with androgynous clothes. The period thing will sort itself out naturally...eventually.

 

You don't strike me as the sort of person who needs a label for this...you're just you, and you don't like being extremely feminine. Maybe that's all you need, and the rest will fall into place as you manage to attain a more neutral look? I hope so, and wish you the best luck in finding your comfort.

[Careco]

I´m glad I don´t live with her anymore, otherwise I´d be stuck in my room, because I can´t look at her.  Maybe the thing is that she needs to be drunk when I tell her these things.

That worked last time. Though that doesn´t really help either.

 

Called my bro after this. He understood me and adviced to let mom calm down a little bit. Though she probably doesn´t warm up to it.  One of the problems in our family is that we don´t talk about things. We suffer in silence. 

 

I did once use a binder, but that wasn´t exactly healthy and it was uncomfortable. 

 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

My father's the same, but instead of crying he went batshit and I almost ended up moving out. He doesn't support me, he still thinks I'm his "little girl". You basically have two options:

A. Let her calm down, try again

B. Go on with your life without her support

I suggest trying A. first, but ultimately it's your life and you only live it once.

[Rynn]

2 hours ago, Scottthespy said:

There are, of course, surgeries that can get rid of breasts and periods completely, but doctors won't do them unless its for medical reasons.

Diagnosed gender dysphoria is enough of a medical reason to perform these surgeries in most countries.

1 hour ago, Careco said:

I did once use a binder, but that wasn´t exactly healthy and it was uncomfortable. 

In case it isn't for medical reasons (like RSI) that the binder is not an option, make sure you get a good one that fits your body. The first time I got some I just ordered them from the internet and that didn't work. These binders were really hard to put on, really uncomfortable while on, didn't really make me all that flat, and broke pretty quickly, so I gave up on binders. Years later a trans friend suggested I make an appointment at a trans operated store that sells binders so they can help me decide which size to get. Turned out I had to get it adjusted, none of the regular sizes fit. This made a huge difference. The binders I have now are a godsend. Easy to put on, easy to keep them on all day. They still don't make me as flat as I'd like, but turns out my boobs are just too big (also the reason for the size adjustment), so can't do much about that for now.It doesn't fix all dysphoria but I can't even describe how much it helps. I don't go a day without a binder anymore. So basically, don't give up too soon, and ask for help with sizes if you need it.

 

As for your mom, she can't really stop you from doing this. It's not her life. I don't know how to help you deal with her though. I don't know how her mind works, so can't give you advice on that.

 

But if in your country you have insurance for therapists, then I see no reason not to go see a better one, one that doesn't suck. Therapists who suck won't be helpful. You need to find one that fits your needs.

 

3 hours ago, Careco said:

I thought I´d tell my mom before I start calling a professional.

I don't know what things are like where you live, but where I live waiting lists for an intake at a genderteam are about 2 years long. Get on a waiting list as soon as you can. Future you will thank you. I'm on a waiting list, and I haven't told my mom yet, and for now I'm fine with that. There is no rush at all.

 

3 hours ago, Careco said:

Now I have accepted myself as both, girl and boy. Dunno really a right word for that really. They tend to change depending on day.

I don't know if you're looking for a label, but if you are, you can look into 'bigender' or 'genderfluid'.

[Careco]

Thank you for all for advice. 

I might start using a binder again. If I can figure out where they sell them in here.

 

As for my mom. She talks to me normally, but when I asked dad is she still sulking. He said "probably for a while. You should think before you say stuff." I give up. 

Btw, I didn´t see her the next day. I had to cancel our meeting.  Had to go see a psychologist at midnight, because I was so anxious and depressed.

 

My mom was okay when I first told her, but as soon as I talked about doing something about it, she doesn´t support me anymore. It´s weird, because my sister´s best friend went through the process. She gave support to him.  She doesn´t have a problem with him.

 

I´m not good at fighting with people or when someone is that disappointed with me. 

[The Incarnation Of Boredom]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:42 AM, Careco said:

I´ve thought about this a lot for a couple of years now. At first years ago I wanted to be a boy.

Now I have accepted myself as both, girl and boy. Dunno really a right word for that really. They tend to change depending on day. But still I feel like I´m not just happy with myself. 

I hate my chest. Boobs, breasts, etc. I hate the size, how they look and feel. I don´t like bras, I can´t wear a binder. I hate that I have to wear a shirt everywhere, even if it were too hot.

I hate periods (who doesn´t...). 

I feel like I just want to be neutral. Get rid of some feminity.

 

I just told my mom that I wanted to find out more about stuff like this. To go talk to a professional. A real one. Not my bad psychologist, who thinks all my problems would be solved with a proper relationship and sex. I thought I´d tell my mom before I start calling a professional.

 

She was okay with it when I first told her that I´m not exactly female. But...

 

The thing is... my mom is now crying. She was just saying "no" to me. I told her I wasn´t going to change my gender or anything. (Because I don´t need to.)

She doesn´t want to listen to me, doesn´t want to talk about this or anything. Said asked why I couldn´t be just happy as I am. That I need new friends who don´t change me. Even though outside world has little to do with this thing. 

 

I feel bad that I made her cry. Even thought my mom is a little difficult anyway. She is always right. She never apologizes. She can do no wrong. It´s a little hard for me to decide anything if she just cries everytime like I just murdered her dog.

 

Now I have to see her tomorrow. It´s gonna be damn awkward. 

 

Meanwhile waiting for a drunken phone call from my sister, because mom is crying because of me.  ( I sometimes hate this family.)

 

Sorry for typos or funny words. I don´t care.  I don´t speak english.

 

 

Your mother sounds manipulative, as I've been looking up the definitions because people call me manipulative (I'm not, according to the definitions I've seen)

Being manipulative is purposely crying or throwing a fit to get your way, or to cause others to feel guilty. People say I do because I cry a lot, but never intentionally. Another reason people sometimes call me manipulative is because I care a lot about other people and not much about myself. For example if someone says they need space from me my response will usually be "its okay. As long as it helps you, I'm okay with it" and for some reason being a caring person is manipulative or something? Idk.

[Karst]

I've heard that when you throw an unexpected life change at your parents, you should give them time to mourn the expectations they had for you.  When someone has particular hopes for you, it can be difficult for them to see you take an unexpected turn.

If she really cares about you, though, she'll come around to accepting your identity.  Just wait and see how things work out.

[Careco]

It´s been a while. Wanted to update on this a little.  Stuff.. hit the fan, but it´s been sorted out... sorta? My brother helped me with my parents. They got mad and I got mad, brother got mad and lectured us, but we solved it and love each other. We don´t actually talk about this topic, but they know now what I want to do. I´ll give them time now. I am an adult ( lol. )  and I need to what I need to do. 

 

I got on the waiting list in may, my appointment is actually supposed to come before november 30th. 

 

I´m doing better now. 

[PoeciMeta]

On 4/30/2019 at 8:06 PM, Laurann said:

I don't know what things are like where you live, but where I live waiting lists for an intake at a genderteam are about 2 years long. Get on a waiting list as soon as you can. Future you will thank you. I'm on a waiting list, and I haven't told my mom yet, and for now I'm fine with that. There is no rush at all.

I don't know about that stuff! What does it... do? How can I get on one?? 

[Rynn]

24 minutes ago, Poe's Creep Meta said:

I don't know about that stuff! What does it... do? How can I get on one?? 

Well in the Netherlands, where I live, it's the VU hospital in Amsterdam that basically has a monopoly on trans related medical things. They've got the genderteam, they're allowed to give you a slip of paper that says you can legally change your gender (even without hormones or surgery or whatever, in the Netherlands that's possible, since 2014), they can diagnose you with gender dysphoria (though there are also different institutions like PsyQ who can do that), and the VU are the only ones who can get you hormone treatments and surgery here.

 

I actually went to my first information conference at the VU two days ago (there were SO many people! And these things happen once every couple of months! I severely underestimated the sheer number of trans people in the Netherlands apparently), so it's all still fresh in my mind  

And then there's transvisie for meeting other trans people and political advocacy and stuff. And those organizations all cooperate.

 

I got on the waiting list by asking my regular doctor to put me on it (that's the only way to get on it, going through your doctor). I had a letter from my therapist backing my story up, but my doctor is nice, so I think she wouldn't have asked for more proof if I hadn't had that. I just digitally made an appointment with her, and in the 'what would you like to talk about' section of the form that you have to fill in to make a digital appointment, I put something like "I would like you to put me on the waiting list for the genderteam at the VU. My therapist has sent you a letter in which this issue is mentioned." (that's how things work in the Netherlands, therapists send your doctor general diagnosis letters, the gender issue thing was basically a footnote in that letter, because my therapist isn't qualified to actually diagnose dysphoria) and I was SO nervous when I had to go to that appointment, but when I got there my doctor was basically like: "Yeah alright, I'll do that. Click, click, social security number... aaand done. Also what the hell is up with this waiting list! It's two years long! Is that normal?"

She asked zero invasive questions, didn't ask me to prove myself once, and just trusted me  

 

So yeah, the waiting list is for an intake conversation. Not for treatment. The diagnostic phase tends to take 6 months, 1 appointment a month, and then you've got social transition phase, hormone phase, and lastly surgery. This used to be a single track, more or less the same for everyone, but at that information evening they said that since there are more and more nb's, the same track doesn't work for everyone, so they look at what everyone needs individually, and it's possible to get surgery without hormones or the other way around. But since that's relatively new and since the number of applications has skyrocketed, everything is kind of chaotic right now, and changing really fast, and they don't have enough staff (hence the two year waiting list).

 

I don't know how it works where you live, and I don't know where you live to begin with sooo.... I hope that was helpful because that's all I've got?

[PoeciMeta]

Thanks @Laurann! I have to admit, I don't know where to begin to address my dysphoria, and a diagnosis sounds like a reasonable first step. I don't really know how it works in my own country and it's hard to find information, but I know I should first speak to my doctor... well... I assumed he would tell me what to do, but I'm too impatient I guess ^^'

[Rynn]

2 minutes ago, Poe's Creep Meta said:

Thanks @Laurann! I have to admit, I don't know where to begin to address my dysphoria, and a diagnosis sounds like a reasonable first step. I don't really know how it works in my own country and it's hard to find information, but I know I should first speak to my doctor... well... I assumed he would tell me what to do, but I'm too impatient I guess ^^'

Hm, my doctor didn't have any experience dealing with this, which is why I basically just told her what to do for me. I'm not sure you should rely on your regular doctor for this. It's better to know what kind of recommendation letters you need from him beforehand. 

Maybe you could find information about meetups for trans people from your country? You don't need anyone's permission to join those usually. And then you can ask the people who are there for more information on how to proceed?

I didn't know where to begin either, but then I met someone in class who had an ace flag on their backpack, and they turned out to be an nb who'd been dealing with the VU's gender team for about a decade and they helped me. So yeah. Find people who know the system where you live. Even if it's just an LGBT+ evening in a bar, go there, meet people, and as soon as it's not awkward, ask them for help.

[PoeciMeta]

23 minutes ago, Laurann said:

Hm, my doctor didn't have any experience dealing with this, which is why I basically just told her what to do for me. I'm not sure you should rely on your regular doctor for this. It's better to know what kind of recommendation letters you need from him beforehand. 

Maybe you could find information about meetups for trans people from your country? You don't need anyone's permission to join those usually. And then you can ask the people who are there for more information on how to proceed?

I didn't know where to begin either, but then I met someone in class who had an ace flag on their backpack, and they turned out to be an nb who'd been dealing with the VU's gender team for about a decade and they helped me. So yeah. Find people who know the system where you live. Even if it's just an LGBT+ evening in a bar, go there, meet people, and as soon as it's not awkward, ask them for help.

I didn't think about that... maybe a mental health professional would know? 

One of my main problems, though, is precisely that it's so hard to ask... but yeah, experienced people. It's basically what I'm doing here, in fact. Only thing is the country problem ^^' thanks for the advice. 

[Careco]

Huh, my therapist didn´t recommend the genderteam for me. Told me not to waste their resources.  ┐(￣ヘ￣)┌

Also anytime I tried to ask more information about asexuality and genders from other people he got disappointed.

Lucky that I now have a new therapist. 

[Rynn]

32 minutes ago, Poe's Creep Meta said:

I didn't think about that... maybe a mental health professional would know? 

Well, my therapist (super progressive and in central Amsterdam, so that's a bunch of privilege points for me right there) had zero clue what to do with this. (I do hope you're in somewhat of a progressive area, so you at least don't need too much luck to find one who's accepting?) My therapist asked other therapists and came up with a couple of organizations which weren't ideal because they'd stopped taking clients (too many applicants) but I think she'd have probably pointed me in the right direction eventually, but at that point my friend had already told me where to go, so we'll never know. My therapist said she had difficulty asking people because she was afraid of breaking professional privacy rules. So what I'm saying is, that's not necessarily a straightforward path. People with actual experience with the system would be your first choice, but a mental health professional could be your second.

 

32 minutes ago, Poe's Creep Meta said:

One of my main problems, though, is precisely that it's so hard to ask.

Yeah, I do understand that. It's friggin terrifying.

 

I understand that bars are probably really scary. So maybe try facebook groups for trans people in your country? That's where that friend I talked about gets and gives out a lot of info. It'll take some trial and error in picking out trans groups, because I've heard there's a lot of chasers, so a lot of the groups are set to private or something (invitation only? I don't know, I don't do facebook), but maybe if you hung out in one of those groups for a while and proved yourself not to be a creep, you could get invited into one of the better ones? Or maybe you could just ask a mod of one of the not-private groups for help. They might be super vigilant for trolls too though.

But yeah, this does again depend on how available this kind of information is in your country. If it's a very conservative place, people probably don't want to be in public trans facebook groups.

 

I don't know if this is the same for you, but coming out to people as nb scares the ff'in shit out of me, mainly because I think they'll see me as a confused overly offended irrational SJW who isn't to be taken seriously afterwards ever again (and yeah I know that's not what nb's are actually like, but that's what cringe compilations will have you believe). I find that knowing my shit helps with that fear. I don't want to waffle on any questions anyone can throw at me. That's why I'd suggest looking for advice from people who won't think you're a confused and annoying SJW for concrete advice before having to justify your existence to a doctor or therapist who's (let's be honest) probably never heard of this whole 'non-binary' thing before (like mine hadn't). It also helps you feel less alone.

But if you don't have this insecurity, then pretend I didn't say anything . You do what works for you  

 

I would offer for you to PM me what country you're in, but I might not even speak that country's language and I don't have that much confidence I'd be able to find more info for you than you already have... I don't know if I'm able to help more.. I wish I could.

 

3 minutes ago, Careco said:

Huh, my therapist didn´t recommend the genderteam for me. Told me not to waste their resources.

What a douche. I'm glad you found a new one.

[PoeciMeta]

37 minutes ago, Laurann said:

Well, my therapist (super progressive and in central Amsterdam, so that's a bunch of privilege points for me right there) had zero clue what to do with this. (I do hope you're in somewhat of a progressive area, so you at least don't need too much luck to find one who's accepting?) My therapist asked other therapists and came up with a couple of organizations which weren't ideal because they'd stopped taking clients (too many applicants) but I think she'd have probably pointed me in the right direction eventually, but at that point my friend had already told me where to go, so we'll never know. My therapist said she had difficulty asking people because she was afraid of breaking professional privacy rules. So what I'm saying is, that's not necessarily a straightforward path. People with actual experience with the system would be your first choice, but a mental health professional could be your second.

 

Yeah, I do understand that. It's friggin terrifying.

 

I understand that bars are probably really scary. So maybe try facebook groups for trans people in your country? That's where that friend I talked about gets and gives out a lot of info. It'll take some trial and error in picking out trans groups, because I've heard there's a lot of chasers, so a lot of the groups are set to private or something (invitation only? I don't know, I don't do facebook), but maybe if you hung out in one of those groups for a while and proved yourself not to be a creep, you could get invited into one of the better ones? Or maybe you could just ask a mod of one of the not-private groups for help. They might be super vigilant for trolls too though.

But yeah, this does again depend on how available this kind of information is in your country. If it's a very conservative place, people probably don't want to be in public trans facebook groups.

 

I don't know if this is the same for you, but coming out to people as nb scares the ff'in shit out of me, mainly because I think they'll see me as a confused overly offended irrational SJW who isn't to be taken seriously afterwards ever again (and yeah I know that's not what nb's are actually like, but that's what cringe compilations will have you believe). I find that knowing my shit helps with that fear. I don't want to waffle on any questions anyone can throw at me. That's why I'd suggest looking for advice from people who won't think you're a confused and annoying SJW for concrete advice before having to justify your existence to a doctor or therapist who's (let's be honest) probably never heard of this whole 'non-binary' thing before (like mine hadn't). It also helps you feel less alone.

But if you don't have this insecurity, then pretend I didn't say anything . You do what works for you  

 

I would offer for you to PM me what country you're in, but I might not even speak that country's language and I don't have that much confidence I'd be able to find more info for you than you already have... I don't know if I'm able to help more.. I wish I could.

I think my area is progressive enough, I don't go around asking people but I don't hear alarmingly discriminatory stuff often so it shouldn't be too bad. 

I don't know how to find people, though. I don't do social media, it kind of scares me, I only have an account here on  AVEN. I can't really move on my own much and I'm too young for bars, too. That's why I'm mostly relying on health professionals (or would be, if I were actually able to come out and stuff). 

This forum did and still does help me, at least I know what I'm not and have facts to back my identity up (I shouldn't need any, but let's ignore I said that...) so if I'm trapped and have to come out, I know how to defend myself. But it's super scary. I don't know what scares me, honestly. It just is hard. Probably the fact that I'll have to eventually if I want anything to be done. Welp... 

Thanks for your help ^^ My country is no secret, I just don't make a habit of shouting it from the rooftops. Besides, it doesn't really matter, I still need to do the most difficult stuff before things can change significantly... but at least people should be accepting, I hope. It was nice to hear your experience. It's a bit absurd, but seeing it's a thing normal, sensible people do makes it less scary somehow

[DuranDuranfan]

I’m bigender, possibly like you are, and people have noticed the changes I’ve made(clothing, hair). My husband(I haven’t told him anything yet), he thinks it’s because I’m a tomboy, and that’s true. I’ve always gravitated towards things that are traditionally associated with “maleness” and masculinity like action figures, watching action movies, playing hockey, and learning how to pee standing up. My mom, though. Yeah that’s another story. She’s really getting suspicious. Ever since I’ve switched from wearing dresses and skirts to church, and instead wearing dress pants and shirts(what the guys usually wear). She’s like, why are you wearing that? You’re a woman. *sigh* I also recently got my hair cut and styled so it’s more unisex. Not too short(well mostly at the back) and not too long(longer up top and on the sides so I can still use hair clips if need be). 
 

I can’t explain this to my mom, especially now because due to her mental health issues she’s not in a right frame of mind. She is aware that transgender people exist and that there is proven evidence that people who are trans have their brains wired opposite to the body they were born with. I don’t know if my mom is aware that people can also be non binary. I’m also on the autism spectrum and there is a huge correlation between being on the autism spectrum and not identifying on the gender binary. 
 

I’m glad you’re slowly getting things sorted out between you and your family. 
 

Regarding wearing a binder, I also wear one. Now I’m top heavy, so it doesn’t make me completely flat. I look like I have body builder pecs haha, so I wear loose fitting tops and patterns give the best illusion of a flatter chest. Particularly horizontal stripes. I’m also considering reduction surgery in the future. Since I’m bigender, I still have moments where my feminine side asserts itself so I still want to have breasts, just not so big. Plus, my husband still wants something he can, play with, so to speak lol. And on times when my masculine side asserts itself I still have the option of binding, going braless or wearing a sports bra in order to give my body a break.