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I think I might actually be ace?


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So I had a moment which changed the way I view attraction to people.

 

I had a chance to talk to a hot girl and get to know her reasonably well, and she even understood how society is judgemental based on looks. We talked about how attractive people are assumed to be stupid, and some other things.

 

Throughout my life, being raised male, I was accustomed that hot girls are some inaccessible type of human. Post-coming out, things didn't change much until this encounter. Now that I know what hot, desirable girls are actually like in person instead of just outside observations, I am confused whether I actually am sexually attracted to them or just have internalized male socialization.

 

Notice: I have neurodiversity so descriptions ahead may seem "cringy" or hard to understand to some people.

 

I do find people aesthetically attractive, but I am confused on the sexual part. Like I am confused is your sexual preference dependent on raising? Many trans people say they are "naturally trans" and every their behavior goes counter to their socialization, but this doesn't appear to be the case with me. Also could be due to lack of knowledge of what is sex between 2 cis women like. When I see a hot girl, my male organs respond, but my brain is like "No, no, not interested in this way, you aren't a part of this body, I am getting sex reassignment to get rid of you".


I also lithromantically fantasized from a female perspective about a relationship with a man, and "experienced attraction" towards men. But since all of the words describing attraction are made by cishet neurotypicals, I have no idea what it actually is. What would the planet be like where 90% of people are of same sexuality as me? I have no idea how to answer. I know that I am aromantic omni-something, but sexual, aesthetic, i don't know. It has something to do with the body but I am confused.

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You could be asexual, or it could be dysphoria causing you to not want to have sex as a male. Either way, don't pressure yourself into doing anything sexual that you're not comfortable with.

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46 minutes ago, washingup said:

and she even understood how society is judgmental based on looks.

That 'even' makes it sound like you didn't expect her to understand that, because you assumed she'd be stupid because she's 'hot', which would be hilarious 😜 

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17 hours ago, Laurann said:

That 'even' makes it sound like you didn't expect her to understand that, because you assumed she'd be stupid because she's 'hot', which would be hilarious 😜 

Well nobody actually did understand me before this. I dodn't make assumptions, I just had nobody to talk with about social preconceptions, because most people are in those social preconceptions.

 

I grew up constantly having to explain everything, and to reword sentences to make sure they make sense to neurotypicals. Every time I don't get something neurotypically correct, I get tons of people willing to put me up on a cringe compilation. 

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@washingup ah okay, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining :) 

 

Still, I think more people than you'd think understand that society treats people differently based on how they look. You're not alone in that :) 

I'd say most people know that, and hate when people judge them based on how they look, yet also still judge others like that, because it is unfortunately baked into our brains.

 

In my original post I didn't reply to your question because I wasn't sure what exactly meant and how to help you, but now that I see that not a lot of other people have volunteered, I'll give it a shot, but you do need to help me and clarify a couple of things, then my answers will be more accurate :) 

 

18 hours ago, washingup said:

Like I am confused is your sexual preference dependent on raising?

In general it is accepted that the gender(s) you are attracted to are for the most part not influenced by how you were raised, however, your 'type' can be influenced by experience. If you dated a person who had a certain haircut, and liked that relationship, then people you meet later who have that same haircut might remind you of that person, and you might be more likely to be attracted to them. This is also why people say 'girls date their fathers', meaning 'girls look for traits in men that remind them of their fathers'. That phrase is obviously hopelessly heteronormative, but I think you understand what I'm getting at. Experience influences your type, but generally not the gender(s) you are attracted to.

 

18 hours ago, washingup said:

Many trans people say they are "naturally trans" and every their behavior goes counter to their socialization, but this doesn't appear to be the case with me.

With their 'behavior' did you mean who they date? Because your gender doesn't determine your sexual/romantic orientation. I'm not sure I understand what you meant here. Could you clarify?

 

Or did you mean whether their mannerisms are masculine, feminine or neither? 

Or did you mean whether your gender identity is innate?

 

I'm copy-pasting a bit I wrote earlier, to make sure we are using the same terminology in the same way so communication will be easier:

 

Spoiler

 

Gender roles/norms/expectations are unwritten rules society has for how men and women should behave. (Men can't wear make-up. Crying is for girls. Women shouldn't be too assertive.) These are not part of an individual's identity. They are part of a society's culture.

 

Gender expression is what your gender appears to be to other people. (Includes gendered things like clothing, colors, make-up, mannerisms, tone of voice, way of walking, gestures while talking, how intensely emotions are expressed etc)

 

Gender identity is a very complicated concept and it is the core of what we are talking about when we’re discussing trans issues. Before you can know what ‘transgender’ is, you need to know what ‘gender identity’ is. 

 

So there are two main theories on what 'gender identity' is. (very simplified)

 

First you've got the (in my opinion outdated) theory put forward by Judith Butler, Simone de Beauvoir and the like. They resist the idea that any aspect of gender identity can be innate. As de Beauvoir says "One isn't born a woman, one becomes a woman." This basically means that you feel like a woman because it's what you're used to. You behave like a woman because that's what's socially acceptable. In this view people act how they're supposed to act according to the gender roles in their culture. The constant repetition of doing what they're supposed to do gets etched into their brains and becomes their gender identity. For Butler and de Beauvoir, gender identity is the internalization of culturally imposed gender norms and expectations.

 

Then there's a newer theory about gender identity. This one builds on the first one and accepts it as partially correct, but asserts that gender identity is also partially innate. If it wasn't, then it would logically follow that trans people simply can’t exist, because your gender identity would entirely depend on what you were raised to be.

Joan Roughgarden, a transgender evolutionary biologist who wrote a whole book on the science of lgbt identities, is a proponent of this one. According to her, ‘gender identity’ is a deep-seated sense of self that's been established from the time you were born. In her book 'Evolution's Rainbow', she writes:


I envision gender identity as a cognitive lens. When a baby opens his or her eyes after birth and looks around, whom will the baby emulate and whom will he or she merely notice? Perhaps a male baby will emulate his father or other men, perhaps not, and a female baby her mother or other women, perhaps not. I imagine that a lens in the brain controls who to focus on as a “tutor.” Transgender identity is then the acceptance of a tutor from the opposite sex. Degrees of transgender identity, and of gender variance generally, reflect different degrees of single-mindedness in the selection of the tutor’s gender. The development of gender identity thus depends on both brain state and early postnatal experience, because brain state indicates what the lens is, and environmental experience supplies the image to be photographed through that lens and ultimately developed immutably into brain circuitry. Once gender identity is set, like other basic aspects of temperament, life proceeds from there.

 

So a cisgender female baby instinctively emulates women, a transgender baby with a female body instinctively emulates men, and a non-binary baby instinctively emulates both. 

 

The innate part of gender identity is the part that decides which of the two genders (or both or neither) you will instinctively emulate during your life. The behavior of that group of people then supplies you with the learned aspect of your gender identity. So the innate part tells you which gender(s) to imitate and the learned part is what kind of behavior you're actually imitating and internalizing.  

 

Gender identity as Roughgarden describes it, is a deep-seated, immutable sense of belonging or kinship to a gender (either to the social construct or to the group of people). A sense of "I belong with those people, or the other group, or maybe both or not really with either."

 

 

But if you are neurodivergent and have more trouble understanding social conventions like gender roles, you might have more trouble 'instinctively emulating' women, men or whomever than neurotypical people. This might be an explanation for why you don't feel like your behavior goes counter to your male socialization. But I could be way off. I don't know you.

 

18 hours ago, washingup said:

Also could be due to lack of knowledge of what is sex between 2 cis women like.

Well that is Google-able. Try lesbian and bisexual YouTubers rather than porn for more accuracy. There are some YouTubers who talk about what that is like.

 

18 hours ago, washingup said:

When I see a hot girl, my male organs respond, but my brain is like "No, no, not interested in this way, you aren't a part of this body, I am getting sex reassignment to get rid of you".

Would you want to have sex with a woman if you did have female organs? This may change over the course of your transition, as it does for some trans people, or it may not. It may be too early to tell for you.

 

18 hours ago, washingup said:

I know that I am aromantic omni-something, but sexual, aesthetic, i don't know. It has something to do with the body but I am confused.

Simply appreciating someone's looks is not sexual attraction. The question is do you want to have sex with anyone? If the answer is no, that sounds ace to me (at least for now, you don't know what you will want further on in your transition), if yes then that doesn't sound ace to me.

 

I'm not sure if this has been clear to you. There is a lot in your post that I don't really understand, so I'm not sure if what I wrote is relevant to your situation, but this is the best I could do. I think it would be helpful if you talked more about what you would ideally want in a relationship sexually speaking (you are aromantic, I am aware, but I am not necessarily talking about romantic relationships here, could be queerplatonic, or just sexual). Asexuality is most commonly defined as a lack of sexual attraction, but since 'sexual attraction' is a very vague and often misunderstood concept, a secondary definition is 'a lack of innate desire for partnered sex.' Do you have a desire for partnered sex?

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2 hours ago, Laurann said:

Or did you mean whether your gender identity is innate?

 

Yes, this. And also masculine/feminine behaviors that come with it.

 

Quote

a lack of innate desire for partnered sex.' Do you have a desire for partnered sex?

I had sensual fantasies concerning nudity, such as playing with another person's body to see what it is like to be them, but I am not sure if this counts as "sex".

 

For the reference, at age 13-14 I suspected I was asexual, although I was obsessed with girls for other reasons such as being trans. I couldn't imagine myself with anyone, romantically or sexually, although did get obsessed with the way girls look and what they wear and what is under that. 

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