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The need for a Youth Rights Movement


RoseGoesToYale

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RoseGoesToYale

I found a book that piqued my interest based on the title, The Case Against College by Caroline Bird. I thought it would be a more recent book, but it was written in 1975. Turns out the "college for all" question has been around for over 40 years. She talks about the things we're familiar with now, like rising tuition and loans and lack of market value for degrees (even back then, that's what scares me). But she also talked about the feelings of students and why all manner of youth are being pushed into college, whether they should go or not. When I took sociology of higher ed, we studied how universities are capitalist institutions that want more and more money, so I thought that was it. But Bird puts a different spin on it:

 

"My unnerving conclusion is that [college] students are sad because they are not needed--not by their own parents, not by employers, not by the society as a whole. They were not, for the most part, unwanted babies. Their fate is more awkward. Somewhere between the nursery and the employment office they become unwanted adults. No one has anything in particular against them. But no one has anything in particular for them either..." p. 12

 

This struck something in me. I was depressed most of my college tenure, and for the life of me I could not figure out why until I read that paragraph. I felt useless. I felt unwanted by my country's economy and unneeded for anything except making the school and my parents look good. I had no purpose except to get good grades, same as in high school (difference is in high school I had people). I was forbidden from working as part of my college funding, but even for students that have to work, many are still as sad as Bird describes, because, as she goes on to discuss, the only jobs available to college students are either menial jobs that no one else in society wants (waiting/serving, retail, cleaning) or ones that aren't lucrative enough to give any amount of self-determination (e.g. unpaid internships). Furthermore, there is enough modern evidence to suggest youth are actively being discriminated against when they do enter the workforce, e.g. see here and here.

 

Bird frames the plight of youth as parallel to other rights movements. When people of color realized they'd been given the menial jobs no one else wanted and were being gatekept out of better jobs that they were perfectly capable of doing, the civil rights movement stood up and said "That's enough, you can't treat us like this, we have a right to make a decent living!" When women realized they'd been given the menial jobs no one else wanted and were being gatekept out of better jobs that they were perfectly capable of doing, the women's rights movement stood up and said "That's enough, you can't treat us like this, we have a right to make a decent living!" Why haven't young people stood up to do the same? Are they afraid it will make them unhirable? Are they afraid it'll cost them their lives or livelihoods? If true, that amount of social power being abused against against a vulnerable group is undoubtable evidence that prejudice and discrimination exist.

 

We now study black and female authors in schools, because we have come to see their contributions to literature as valuable. We do not study young authors, i.e. age 15 to 25, because for some reason society thinks any literary "contribution" from youth will be puerile and uninformed at best, and complete and utter horse tripe at worst. (If that sounds familiar, it's how old white men viewed black and women's literature back before they started getting a what for) The sheer amount of libel, slander, and stereotypes people of color and women faced, and still face, is ridiculous. We're finally at a point in history where it's not tolerated in the press or from city officials anymore. The same does not apply to young people. Older journalists repeatedly degrade them and get off scott free. Take this 2013 article about millennials. Imagine if you substituted "younger" and "millennial" with "women" and then "men" for "old". The opening line would read "I am about to do what men have done throughout history: call women lazy, entitled, selfish and shallow." There'd be an uproar and people would be calling for this guy to get axed! Why is there no such uproar for when youth get talked about like this? I am thoroughly ashamed of myself, I lapped this drivel up for years, I spouted off against my generation in as just a disgusting a fashion as these "journalists".

 

I only just started reading Bird's book, I'm on page 80. Despite there being some differences influenced by the politics and economy of the 60s and 70s, I'm learning there's a striking number of similarities between youth then and youth now that I never thought existed. I hope reading more will glean a clearer relationship across all decades of youth. But I now realize it's not a stretch to call for my peers and I to stand up, to be lifted up, so that the younger ones behind us don't have to go through the same thing. They deserve to be valued and give input to society. We need economic opportunities, including paid training and experience requirement waivers for all entry-level positions. We need youth art in museums, youth music in the symphony, youth literature in our classrooms. We need to treat young as valuable members of society capable of doing more than just menial work in between study hall. If we can learn to value our young people, maybe a better public school system will finally make sense. Maybe if we extend the youth some courtesy, they'll want to be active participants in politics. If we give young people choices for what to do with their lives after high school, just like we've given other minorities more choices, those choices may yet enrich society as a whole.

 

I was not given a choice, nor any inherent value in society upon completing high school, despite the talents and skills I know I have and don't need years of work experience to demonstrate. It's degrading to me as a person and to other young people, and it's unacceptable.

 

Young AVENites, do feel like society has given you a fair shake? Have you ever been discriminated against because of your age? Older AVENites, did you feel useless or alienated from society while in college or just starting out in the working world? What do you wish had been different?

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AmorphousBlob

I agree with you, but one thing that does differentiate discrimination based on age from other kinds is that fact that age changes. So rather than discriminating against an inherent and permanent quality, it is against and inherent yet changing quality. Though I suppose that generations (like millenials) are permanent qualities. I dunno, doesn't justify it by any means but I think it's something to keep in mind. I think the problem comes from an emphasis on experience in the workplace. People don't trust the young'uns to do the job right.

 

-A younger AVENite

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I think that our society also discriminates unfairly against the elderly in some ways- for example, the intense pressure placed on women to look young for as long as physically possible.

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AmorphousBlob
Just now, Ardoise said:

I think that our society also discriminates unfairly against the elderly in some ways- for example, the intense pressure placed on women to look young for as long as physically possible.

The opposite also applies to teenage girls, putting pressure on them to look as "mature" as possible.

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1 minute ago, AmorphousBlob said:

The opposite also applies to teenage girls, putting pressure on them to look as "mature" as possible.

Society in general tends to force conformity on people in areas where diversity is harmless or beneficial.

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AmorphousBlob
9 minutes ago, Ardoise said:

Society in general tends to force conformity on people in areas where diversity is harmless or beneficial.

Pretty much, yeah. Every culture has its own perceived ideal person (usually two, an ideal man and an ideal woman) and most like to force people closer to that ideal, regardless of their actual traits (both physical and psychological)

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AspieAlly613
8 minutes ago, AmorphousBlob said:

I agree with you, but one thing that does differentiate discrimination based on age from other kinds is that fact that age changes. So rather than discriminating against an inherent and permanent quality, it is against and inherent yet changing quality. Though I suppose that generations (like millenials) are permanent qualities. I dunno, doesn't justify it by any means but I think it's something to keep in mind.

I think it's a little more subtle than that.  

 

The distinction between bias based on permanent categories vs. temporary categories (or even voluntary choices) isn't significant.  I should note that I'm replacing the word "discrimination" with the more specific "bias," which is not the same thing, but which I think fits the context better.  I think the more important distinction is that everyone who is criticizing young people used to be a young person xemself.  If the complaint is of the form "kids behave less maturely than middle-aged adults," that's not biased because it's accurate.  If the complaint is of the form "kids these days behave less maturely than kids used to," the one complaining is excluding xemself from the problem and also making a generations-old claim (Aristotle made similar claims back then) that is not supported by evidence.

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AmorphousBlob
2 minutes ago, AspieAlly613 said:

I think it's a little more subtle than that.  

 

The distinction between bias based on permanent categories vs. temporary categories (or even voluntary choices) isn't significant.  I should note that I'm replacing the word "discrimination" with the more specific "bias," which is not the same thing, but which I think fits the context better.  I think the more important distinction is that everyone who is criticizing young people used to be a young person xemself.  If the complaint is of the form "kids behave less maturely than middle-aged adults," that's not biased because it's accurate.  If the complaint is of the form "kids these days behave less maturely than kids used to," the one complaining is excluding xemself from the problem and also making a generations-old claim (Aristotle made similar claims back then) that is not supported by evidence.

Ah, I see. The age-old "kids these days." My worst nightmare.

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RoseGoesToYale

Discrimination against older workers and the elderly is undoubtedly a big issue, but in this thread I would like to focus on the 15-25 age range, give or take a few years, namely because I myself am young (23) and am pretty well versed in what it is like to be young in this day and age, and I am not yet old enough to speak on the experiences and concerns of that particular age group. I can ally myself with the fight against age discrimination of the older generations, but ultimately it's not my voice that needs to be heard, it's theirs.

 

Also because a majority of people alive are able to comment on their experiences of being young, and all of those experiences should be heard.

 

4 minutes ago, AspieAlly613 said:

The distinction between bias based on permanent categories vs. temporary categories (or even voluntary choices) isn't significant.

But is it temporary? Babies will always exist. Toddlers will always exist. Teenagers, middle-agers, retirees, and the elderly will always exist. The passage of one human being out of youth and into middle adulthood does not destroy the category of youth altogether. It's much like when some (very cringey) people argue that fighting for rights of the elderly is a lost cause because they're all going to die soon. Simply because an older person passes away does not eliminate the category of people that are very much alive and subject to discrimination based on inevitable stage of life.

 

10 minutes ago, AspieAlly613 said:

If the complaint is of the form "kids behave less maturely than middle-aged adults," that's not biased because it's accurate.

That's a pretty broad statement. Which kids? Which middle-aged adults? How are we defining "maturity" in this scenario?

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As a member of the "entitled" generation (millenials) it bugs me when people call us lazy and entitled. If I had been a boomer, I would have gotten free education and more social assistance and less debt. All millenials seem to be entitled to is a harder climb up the ladder. 

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Captain_Tass

Well, I just turned 16 and I've noticed that most older people believe that anything I say or do is part of a "phase" that "I'll eventually grow out of". They seem to believe that I'm not my own person yet and that my identity will completely and radically change once I'm older, which couldn't be further removed from the truth. Yes, I get it, the future is uncertain and things change yadda yadda. But not a person's whole identity. Their interests might change. They might realise something about themselves that they didn't have a chance to when they were younger. They might conform to the system. But, again, identities don't simply radically change just like that. And I'm sick of people stereotyping me as "just another teenage girl who thinks she's special and is constantly going through phases", rather than the (nonbinary) human being that I am, simply because of my age and their assumption that "I don't know any better" and that "I'm going to grow out of it". And that happens in every aspect of my life. From my romantic/sexual orientation(s) to my gender identity to my political beliefs to my (lack of) religious beliefs, to my philosophical beliefs, you name it. And I think that people stereotyping and criticising us teenagers and young adults in that way has made us defensive and even more insecure than we already were.

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AmorphousBlob
5 minutes ago, Life Of Tass said:

Well, I just turned 16 and I've noticed that most older people believe that anything I say or do is part of a "phase" that "I'll eventually grow out of". They seem to believe that I'm not my own person yet and that my identity will completely and radically change once I'm older, which couldn't be further removed from the truth. Yes, I get it, the future is uncertain and things change yadda yadda. But not a person's whole identity. Their interests might change. They might realise something about themselves that they didn't have a chance to when they were younger. They might conform to the system. But, again, identities don't simply radically change just like that. And I'm sick of people stereotyping me as "just another teenage girl who thinks she's special and is constantly going through phases", rather than the (nonbinary) human being that I am, simply because of my age and their assumption that "I don't know any better" and that "I'm going to grow out of it". And that happens in every aspect of my life. From my romantic/sexual orientation(s) to my gender identity to my political beliefs to my (lack of) religious beliefs, to my philosophical beliefs, you name it. And I think that people stereotyping and criticising us teenagers and young adults in that way has made us defensive and even more insecure than we already were.

This sums it up perfectly for me, wow.

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I believe we need one.  Read my book (DEAD ON THE VERGE OF BLOOMING) to understand why.  Or if you don't want to read my book...

 

Spoiler

When I was younger, I was basically pushed into a schooling situation that I did not want to be in.  When I tried to escape, I suddenly fell very ill and developed the need for a parents' care.  I still live with my parents to this day.  I don't resent this, but I do wish that I had been allowed more say where school was concerned.

 

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AspieAlly613
2 hours ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

That's a pretty broad statement. Which kids? Which middle-aged adults? How are we defining "maturity" in this scenario?

I'm basing my claims off the study discussed here.  Note that the link I just posted is not a peer-reviewed replicable study.  I'll try to find such a study.

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AspieAlly613

I found this study, which shows differences in brain structure and development between adolescents and adults, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, which focuses on rational decision-making.  However, to translate between brain structure and behavior I would need to see a different study.

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AspieAlly613

I know this only references a small subset of bad decisions (specifically, decisions that can kill you within a year or so), but this graph:

 

1024px-USGompertzCurve.svg.png

 

taken from somebody with more time on xyr hands than I do crunching the numbers from this study by the CDC, demonstrates the following:

 

1) The natural human aging process reveals that the logarithm of mortality (probability of dying in a given year if you live to the start of that year) increases roughly linearly with age.

2) The mortality of infants is higher, possibly because they're more frail and have less-developed immune systems.

3) The mortality of people aged 15-25 is higher, possibly because they make stupid decisions.

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2 hours ago, Life Of Tass said:

Well, I just turned 16 and I've noticed that most older people believe that anything I say or do is part of a "phase" that "I'll eventually grow out of". 

On my end, 10 years later after that age, my opinion never changed. The main belief I had is that the school system here is horrid, and there's no justification for supporting compulsory environment. I never moved away from that position at all. I am every bit the same as I was 10 years ago. So, no, they're not necessarily right.

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AspieAlly613

I personally never got the sense that I was unwanted, possibly because, if memory serves, from the ages of 15-25 I was in an environment where school grades and other judgments/evaluations were based on how we performed relative to each other, eliminating the "kids suck" undertone.

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Anthracite_Impreza

I'm getting ancient now (25) but for most of my life I have felt pointless. I was ok at school, and got rewarded for that, but all that did was make me associate achievement with reward, and thus non-achievement with neglect. I put so much pressure on myself to be successful I ended up with an eating disorder and became unhealthily thin. After school I felt I had no purpose, fell into a pit of depression and wandered around from job to job, failing at most of them (I was always praised for my attitude, but my abilities are lacking). Only my car got me through those times, I had no other reason to carry on.

 

Nowadays, I have found a job that gives me purpose (working on a heritage railway) and I love it. Sadly I don't get paid for it, and I feel age may have something to do with that. It's voluntary, and volunteer positions tend to attract the young and old, both of which society seems to have decided don't deserve fair pay. I've never had a job that paid enough to tax, and that is a damning indictment of the current system.

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I’m about to turn 28 in a few weeks, and you couldn’t pay me to go back to being a teenager/college student. Sure I have to pay bills now, that thing that people always say supposedly makes adulthood harder. “Just wait til you have to pay bills”. But unless your job pays you peanuts and/or you live in a really expensive area it’s really not that hard. Budgeting is just a matter of foresight mixed with arithmetic. 

 

Sure I can’t always afford exactly what I want (and I grew up a little on the poor side so it’s not like I didn’t already have to deal with that when I was a kid anyway) but I’d still take this over the pressures of school, being expected to have a job and/or extracurricular activities on top of that, and not having the privileges of adulthood such as voting and being allowed to drink. Right now I work 8 am to 4:30 pm Monday through Friday. I pretty much spend the rest of my time doing what I want when I want, no homework, guaranteed weekends off, and doing my housework at my own pace instead of having someone nag me that it needs to be done now. As opposed to when I was in school at least a few hours per day, but was also expected to do homework, was pushed by my step-parent to get a part time customer service job (exactly the kind of job that I loathe, as opposed to the cushy office job I have now) in which I would have to work nights and weekends, and had to have the dishes done every night.

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AspieAlly613
3 hours ago, Gloomy said:

Budgeting is just a matter of foresight mixed with arithmetic. 

THANK YOU!!!

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AspieAlly613
3 hours ago, Gloomy said:

and doing my housework at my own pace instead of having someone nag me that it needs to be done now.

The important thing being that you take the initiative and do your housework.  Not everyone does, and not everyone who doesn't takes the responsibility and says "I should clean up more often."

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What’s funny about adults telling young people that something is “just a phase” is that they don’t say that to people who say they want to do “normal” stuff like get married and have kids. When I was a teenager I thought I was going to grow up to be a total normie with a husband and kids, and nobody called that a phase. If I would have said I was gonna be a single and childfeee otaku crazy cat lady they probably would have called that a phase, yet here I am.

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17 hours ago, Life Of Tass said:

Well, I just turned 16 and I've noticed that most older people believe that anything I say or do is part of a "phase" that "I'll eventually grow out of". They seem to believe that I'm not my own person yet and that my identity will completely and radically change once I'm older, which couldn't be further removed from the truth. Yes, I get it, the future is uncertain and things change yadda yadda. But not a person's whole identity. Their interests might change. They might realise something about themselves that they didn't have a chance to when they were younger. They might conform to the system. But, again, identities don't simply radically change just like that. And I'm sick of people stereotyping me as "just another teenage girl who thinks she's special and is constantly going through phases", rather than the (nonbinary) human being that I am, simply because of my age and their assumption that "I don't know any better" and that "I'm going to grow out of it". And that happens in every aspect of my life. From my romantic/sexual orientation(s) to my gender identity to my political beliefs to my (lack of) religious beliefs, to my philosophical beliefs, you name it. And I think that people stereotyping and criticising us teenagers and young adults in that way has made us defensive and even more insecure than we already were.

The thing is, many of us old folks remember being young, we remember our beliefs - and often remember how we learned how much more complex the world was than we had thought.  

 

Some things really do change - the acceptance of non-binary and a variety of sexual orientations is different and IMHO a very good thing.   It was also something I never objected to when I was young.


OTOH when I see the same misunderstandings about about socialism now as  remember in my youth, it just seems that young people need time to learn. 

 

 

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Captain_Tass
2 hours ago, uhtred said:

The thing is, many of us old folks remember being young, we remember our beliefs - and often remember how we learned how much more complex the world was than we had thought.  

 

Some things really do change - the acceptance of non-binary and a variety of sexual orientations is different and IMHO a very good thing.   It was also something I never objected to when I was young.


OTOH when I see the same misunderstandings about about socialism now as  remember in my youth, it just seems that young people need time to learn. 

 

 

I really do get what you're saying, but my original point still stands. Us being less experienced in this whole life thing is not an invitation for older folks to see us as "lesser" (or "incomplete", if you will) beings.

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54 minutes ago, Life Of Tass said:

I really do get what you're saying, but my original point still stands. Us being less experienced in this whole life thing is not an invitation for older folks to see us as "lesser" (or "incomplete", if you will) beings.

Not lesser beings, but less experienced.   Don't forget though that almost any old person would happily trade places with almost any young person (in a roughly similar society). 

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Captain_Tass
1 minute ago, uhtred said:

Don't forget though that almost any old person would happily trade places with almost any young person (in a roughly similar society). 

Which society are we talking about here? American society? European, Asian, African, middle Eastern or Australian society? Or some other society? And what form of society? An urban one? A rural one? A small village located on a mountaintop somewhere?

 

I'm Greek. If I'm honest, all we do here is complain about our situation. The older/elderly folks are complaining about their pensions and politics, the middle-aged folks are complaining about the time they have left until retirement, the younger folks are complaining about unemployment and the teenagers are complaining about the uncertainty of the future amd politics. And I don't really think that anyone would like to trade places with anyone, if I'm honest. Younger ones want to live, older/elderly ones want to live in peace. And everyone wants to just be left alone already.

 

I get it, the older ones might have seen war or, most likely, the civil war right after that during which many decided if they were left or right wing and stuck with it for the rest of their lives. Some have definitely seen dictatorship. Most have seen their children grow up and have their own children. And all that has shaped them into the people they are. Their children might have seen dictatorship, but most saw the immediate aftermath of it. And we, their children, are being raised in an economically devastated country which is now colder than countries in northern Europe. Even if one is not living in poverty, one can feel that many of their compatriots are, and that it could have been them in their place. Yeah, the situation has been worse, but we're still passively dragging our feet around in order to get through life, and complain about anything and everything whenever someone asks us how we're doing. All this in a subtly ultra-conservative society with literally no identity. And what I do know, is that one day this will all become too much and we won't be passive any longer. I don't know if "we" refers to the current set of humans living in Greece or to the next one or to the one after that, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that anything that piles on will eventually become too much to handle. To get back to the original point: I don't think that any older/elderly person here would truly like to switch places with a younger one, simply because the situation we younger folks are in is truly unprecedented. Older folks have had to deal with their own set of hardships, as I mentioned earlier, but they were nothing like our own.

 

I might have been typing out a whole lot of nothing for half an hour here, and I apologise if that's the case.

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I’ve always had a problem with the concept of adulthood. We use it as kind of an arbitrary level of status that’s achieved just by becoming a certain age regardless of whether you act any more maturely or responsibly. And as a result, because you can achieve adulthood effortlessly and adult status just by having a certain birthday, you don’t really have to demonstrate responsible behavior and a lot of adults don’t.

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RoseGoesToYale
1 hour ago, uhtred said:

Not lesser beings, but less experienced.

But how we standardly define "experienced" in a way that draws a clear distinction between the thoughts, abilities, and decisions of young humans and the thoughts, abilities, and decisions of older humans? Experience is relative. I have 16 year old family members that have jobs and already know how to fill out a tax return. I'm 23 and clueless about job hunting and taxes. There are hoards of 16 years olds out there who have had sex with multiple partners. I'm 23 and have never had sex. Heck, there are plenty of 30+ year olds on this forum that have never had sex. I know 16 year old IB students who keep a meticulous planner, complete all their assignments on time, volunteer in the community, and (heaven forbid) still have time to sleep. I know middle-aged career women (cough ex-roommate cough) who forget to pay rent on time sometimes, run to the store and come back with three pairs of impulse purchase shoes, talk on the phone at all hours laughing in not inside voice, and pass out drunk in the living room in their underwear at night. Who's to say which of these experiences and behaviors holds greater social legitimacy?

 

One could argue that older adults are more hardened by the cruelties of the world, but again it's relative. Compare a 15 year old black student living in the ghetto with a 40 year old librarian who has always lived in middle class suburbia. Everybody has struggles regardless of age, but the discrimination comes when society places higher value on certain ages than others and fails to consider the positions, works, and lived experiences of a particular group based on that status alone. I've had my fair share of run-ins with adults that thought all young people incompetent, unworthy of seriousness or respect, and in general treated them poorly. Those adults would say their age and experience gives them the right to behave this way. I firmly believe the same adults were disrespected and not taken seriously as youth themselves, and it can be seen in cycles of domestic abuse. When young people see how young people are treated and regarded by society, they internalize this, reflect themselves through these lenses, and grow up into adults that treat young people the exact same way they were treated.

 

On reckless behavior... teachers and parents seem keen to make 101 assumptions as to why some young people behave recklessly, rather than trying to pinpoint the real reasons why. A teen might shrug and say "I dunno", but consider... older adults are in a position of power relative to teenagers. It's difficult to explain yourself, or even just talk about your life at all, to a person in power for fear of repercussions. It may be safer to shrug and act blasé than be candid and risk getting in trouble or being socially rejected. This is what kept blacks in the American south living in fear. This is what kept women living in fear. Sometimes acting out in ways dominant society considers irrational behavior (e.g. disrupting buses and clogging streets with signs) is the only way to cry out for recognition and respect.

 

The anonymity of the internet puts an interesting spin on it. Age can now be easily faked. I can't know for certain whether the 40 year old school teacher whose blog I'm reading isn't just a 20 year old making educated guesses and trying to feel important to society, unless I've talked to them personally and seen a few head shots.

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2 hours ago, Life Of Tass said:

Which society are we talking about here? American society? European, Asian, African, middle Eastern or Australian society? Or some other society? And what form of society? An urban one? A rural one? A small village located on a mountaintop somewhere?

 

I'm Greek. If I'm honest, all we do here is complain about our situation. The older/elderly folks are complaining about their pensions and politics, the middle-aged folks are complaining about the time they have left until retirement, the younger folks are complaining about unemployment and the teenagers are complaining about the uncertainty of the future amd politics. And I don't really think that anyone would like to trade places with anyone, if I'm honest. Younger ones want to live, older/elderly ones want to live in peace. And everyone wants to just be left alone already.

 

I get it, the older ones might have seen war or, most likely, the civil war right after that during which many decided if they were left or right wing and stuck with it for the rest of their lives. Some have definitely seen dictatorship. Most have seen their children grow up and have their own children. And all that has shaped them into the people they are. Their children might have seen dictatorship, but most saw the immediate aftermath of it. And we, their children, are being raised in an economically devastated country which is now colder than countries in northern Europe. Even if one is not living in poverty, one can feel that many of their compatriots are, and that it could have been them in their place. Yeah, the situation has been worse, but we're still passively dragging our feet around in order to get through life, and complain about anything and everything whenever someone asks us how we're doing. All this in a subtly ultra-conservative society with literally no identity. And what I do know, is that one day this will all become too much and we won't be passive any longer. I don't know if "we" refers to the current set of humans living in Greece or to the next one or to the one after that, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that anything that piles on will eventually become too much to handle. To get back to the original point: I don't think that any older/elderly person here would truly like to switch places with a younger one, simply because the situation we younger folks are in is truly unprecedented. Older folks have had to deal with their own set of hardships, as I mentioned earlier, but they were nothing like our own.

 

I might have been typing out a whole lot of nothing for half an hour here, and I apologise if that's the case.

I'm only personally familiar with middle class US society, so I have to guess a others.  I've had a successful career,  have more money than I know what to do with.  But I'm gettng old. Not too bad yet  but I can feel the slow decline.    I'd happy trade places with any middle class 20 year old in the US.  (which is where i started)

 

No, I would not trade places with the many people who are in far more miserable starting conditions.  OTHO, older people who stated in those miserable situations likely would trade places with younger people. 

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