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anisotrophic

Sexual experimentation - is charity sex better than celibacy?

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anisotrophic
12 hours ago, Silent1 said:

If you're are not a professional writer/novelist, the may be missing out a little bit. 

Haha, thanks! I'm actually in tech/science/engineering, but I have a variety of skills. I'm glad you've enjoyed reading these posts.

 

If you're wondering about a partner, I think it's good to read about the experiences of asexual partners in mixed (ace/sexual) relationships.

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anisotrophic

Up to 50mg weekly with T and I'm back to hitting on my partner, despite feeling a lot of anxiety about it. Is this puberty?

I'm being very worried about my behavior when I'm not in the heat of the moment – worrying I'll cross a line with being overly aggressive.

He's very reassuring, he assures me it's not a terrible chore, like loading the dishwashing machine. I think it's better to err on the side of worrying? But then I worry I'm doing performative worrying, and not sincere worrying.

I kind of love how asexual folks are steadfast defenders of the validity of unenthusiastic consent. 😅

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anisotrophic

Struggling with feeling like a monster.

 

I haven’t been able to imagine someone wanting me for over a year now. My desire manifests as a mix of love and aggression. He says he’s not hurt by it, he knew this was likely to happen, that it’s ok. I don’t feel ok. I feel like I’m poisoning myself.

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Traveler40

I’m sorry it’s so tough at the moment. What does the alternative look like?  Right, it’s likely the alternative for a reason. So, keep talking through it and let yourself feel how you feel in honesty with him. He gets it and you. It’s ok.  
 

You are sexual, that has to be answered as it’s part of who you are. This heightened sense as you transition may throw you out of whack emotionally which is normal, but keep working through it together - give and take.

 

If anyone can do it, you two can. 💪🏼

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anisotrophic

Thanks @Traveler40 & @ryn2!

 

I’ve thought about it. I think, no matter how much he assures me it’s not harming him, I still feel like I’m a worse person — because I’m taking without returning, I can’t fulfill my natural desire for reciprocity. (I can do other stuff to reciprocate, but it’s still running against my instincts.)

 

I reflected to him that it was a bit like virtue ethics vs. consequentialism (two of three major types of ethical analysis; deontology is the third). Which is to say: even though the consequences are not bad, it feels like it degrades who I am.

 

He said “fantasies don’t count towards character” but I countered that they aren’t just fantasies when they’re being realized. They’re “planning”. And I’ve adjusted my sexuality to be driven in part by the “using”; I didn’t see how to get past that. I’m still not sure it’s entirely possible.

 

But I think it helps to recognize that this is the poison, and maybe it’ll help to focus more on expression of love. It’s tough though, because it’s hard to feel like I’m loving someone by asking them to do something they don’t personally want to do. Even if it’s a minor chore, not a terrible one. In the end it’s probably going to be a mix.

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MrDane

Well, when you think about it, sex is odd, rigth! Two bodies rubbing eachother or rubbing yourself by friction from the other persons cavities. But it is the combination, the mix with a person who shares love with you. And if that person does not feel sex as an act of love/desire in itself (innate) then at least the awareness of how your feelings are towards eachother generally is important. It is like being bilingual and then deciding to, once in a while, talk together in a language that you love. If you didnt want to talk, then perhaps the language would dissapear, and never be spoken in your household. Sometimes you have to prioritize, and you have no veto on sex, but you have the moral rigth to ask your partner to work on finding a good solution.

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cupid69

Charity or gift sex is a no-no for me. If my asexual partner cannot satisfy me in body AND mind then it's better to be celibate for me. I think it's fair to say then that the balance is better, i.e. she doesn't have to do something that she doesn't like but she doesn't get the cuddles and closeness that she requires. C'est la vie.

 

That is the trouble with mixing sexuals with asexuals.... always a compromise.

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cupid69
On 12/1/2019 at 12:41 AM, anisotrophic said:

even though the consequences are not bad, it feels like it degrades who I am.

Agree.🙁

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anisotrophic

Yeah, well... puberty. @Apostle, I wonder if "Ok fine I'll have sex with you" isn't such a deterrent for a sexual teenage male. That is roughly how he views my current state, with equanimity. 🤷‍♂️

 

But if I focus on being loving, I don’t feel so bad about it after. (Mostly for me, not him, hah.) I watch the baby to let him sleep in, I think we’re calling it even.

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cupid69

Yeah, well puberty is the initial learning curve isn't it? Those male hormones rushing through your body are so predominant that all else goes out the window. I don't know how females are , not being one so I cannot speak for them but I suspect it is maybe not quite so dramatic. 

All the same, it's a shame males and females are not genetically balanced throughout their lives. It seems inappropriate that a man can still be sexually active into his 70's and 80's yet most women lose that after their 40's. There again, most women are more mature at 20 than most men ever are. 

 

Someone once told me that a man begins to love a woman after having a sexual experience but for a woman it is the reverse. Women see things in men that men don't see in women if you get my logic. Life seems to be one big experiment then you die.

:(

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Memento1
11 hours ago, Apostle said:

All the same, it's a shame males and females are not genetically balanced throughout their lives.  It seems inappropriate that a man can still be sexually active into his 70's and 80's yet most women lose that after their 40's

I think it's much more inappropriate that women carry and birth babies and bleed out their vagina every month for 30-odd years.  ;)  I think we value balance and justice so much because it helps us work in social groups, and being in social groups helps us survive, but frankly an unbalanced baby-making scheme has been more helpful to human survival.  Haha.

 

11 hours ago, Apostle said:

Life seems to be one big experiment then you die.

LOL!  Amen to that.

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cupid69

It's also inappropriate that men tend to live shorter lives than women. I recently went Xmas shopping in a large department store and in the cafeteria/restaurant was outnumbered by 6 to 1 by females of ages ranging from thirties to 70's. Wonder why that is? Obviously women have a better balance to their lives then men do and that sucks. I wish I could have done that in my lifetime but unfortunately the mortgage had to be paid, the children and wife fed etc. I would have been perfectly happy for her to work the long hours that I did whilst I looked after the kids.

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Memento1
22 hours ago, Apostle said:

I would have been perfectly happy for her to work the long hours that I did whilst I looked after the kids.

Well, that's a societal thing, not a genetic thing.  It's unfortunate that we accept the bounds of society so easily.  I'm sorry you've felt discouraged and taken advantage of.

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anisotrophic

If you're unhappy with your gender, well... never to late to change imho 😉🤘

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Traveler40
On 11/30/2019 at 4:41 PM, anisotrophic said:

...I think, no matter how much he assures me it’s not harming him, I still feel like I’m a worse person — because I’m taking without returning

I can totally relate to this in so many ways. You can’t change your nature and accepting that he does this “chore” out of love is something you’ll need to learn. It just goes against the grain is all. You’re a gift giver, not comfortable in receipt alone. However, in this circumstance, it’s critical to make peace with it. 
 

He both wants you to find pleasure and is willing to be there with you out of love. That’s a mixed relationship touchdown. 🙌🏻  I’m not trying to minimize your feelings, I’m just trying to say don’t be so hard on yourself.  

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Switters
On 4/22/2019 at 8:17 AM, anisotrophic said:

The title is partly a joke, but only partly. 😄

 

I'm currently unsure whether I'm better off (a) pursuing charity sex or (b) chilling out with celibacy.

 

I got into celibacy lately and I feel like I could be doing either -- which is to say, I'm not sure if charity sex is better for me, it could actually be worse. (And while I could pursue sex with others, I really don't have time for it.) So: it's an open question, which is better?

 

I get moody sometimes trying to decide which I should be doing. There isn't any universal "right answer", but which one is right for me? So...

 

I'm thinking I'll do an ongoing experiment on myself: switch between the two options (according to some algorithm) and track outcomes.

 

(At the very least, this promises to take away the ongoing "should I?" worries that are bothering me.)

 

I wonder what outcomes to track.

 

Mood? Relationship satisfaction?

I have to say my relationship has gotten better once sex is gone, or I admitted it. Charity sex for me is never fulfilling. Being with someone present is the most important for me. And now I don't feel bitter with her. Or myself. Now I am trying to find an outlet. But things are better.

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Switters
On 4/23/2019 at 5:06 PM, anisotrophic said:

I don't think I want it if it's a cost. I don't see how that's going to make me feel happier, I can't see how to enjoy a "gift" that isn't fueled by intrinsic desire. Why bother doing it at all, then? He's never approached it like something where he's eager to see me happy, I have to ask and all, I'm just a chore. I'd rather he just do laundry.

I can't comment on your relationship but the only time I am a chore for my wife is sex. And there are so many times I should be. The moment you take away that one thing you understand a lot more about your relationship

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anisotrophic

Haven’t updated in a while.

 

I'm ok with asking for sex. It seems fine. I take. No complaints for frequency, quality is up to me.

 

I used to feel a stabbing pain in my gut when I imagined what I didn't have, being desired, thought about it. My skin would hurt all over. I had a kidney stone last year & had to call an ambulance (I couldn't walk from the pain), later thought I'd rather have that pain once a month, once a week even (I think it was nice because it was too much pain to feel any other emotion... how strange to miss that).
 

But now it just feels numb, skin feels thick. Unimaginable. If I imagine someone initiating, touching me... just being confused; "why are you doing that? You don't have to do that for me. I'm ok."

 

If they tried to assure me, I would probably cry. I don't want someone pretending to desire me. The crying would stop them, right? Sexy times.

 

Ah, I felt a little stab. A couple tears. Hurts to imagine someone pretending, asking them to stop. Reminds me why I blocked this.
 

I don't like stories with sex. But they're also so hetcisbinary. I'm nowhere in the stories. Alien worlds, but I'm the alien. I can only imagine taking sex. I did cry about it a couple weeks ago. Felt cold, alone. I think I did that because it was nice to cry, I missed crying. But mostly I'm glad that the crying is gone, being female was too much for me. I like being stronger.

 

He says I get mopey like this when I haven't had sex. I'll probably ask soon, take again, feel loved, and reset because I'm a stupid sexual that way.

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Traveler40

Poetic pain and reflection is beautiful in a way. I’m sorry, but also feel you’re deep in the journey to finding self...

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anisotrophic

@Traveler40 thanks! I should stop feeling sorry for myself, there's no need to rush to fill this particular void. I bet part of it is me missing "crying" and deliberately pushing my own buttons. I really miss being able to cry!

 

Working on self esteem these days (years), which takes a while. Decades ago I attempted to read Nathaniel Branden's book (one of them) and threw it across the room, because I lacked the basic foundation of motivation to change.

Something about leadership has made my own self esteem a necessary thing. God that's backwards. Well, maybe not so unusual. Reluctant leader archetype. I think it was good to stop trying to do it (self esteem) all internally (after some research I concluded that "self esteem" is a product of both internal & external dynamics over time), to also focus on cultivating the interpersonal relationships that build me up.

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xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

You've been through so much in the last few years.  You've had a lot of revelations, both externally and internally.  That would wear anyone out.  Drain them emotionally.  Make them cry until they felt numb.  You and your partner seem to have a beautiful relationship with each other, despite the chaos of the frequent unknown and frequent questions.  The things that would break most couples.  And yet you two still stay honest and stay the course.  You are so strong.  But even the strong can feel weak.  It's okay to feel these things. You are growing and these are just growing pains.  💕

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