Sally Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Knight of Cydonia said: It's not about not being able to find the polls that show him winning or gaining. It's about a pattern of blatent misleading, manufacturing dissent, and downplaying of Sanders on the part of much of the MSM. "Bernie Blindness" is real, and incredibly frustrating. Sanders mysteriously left out of collages of democratic presidential candidates (etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc); MSM lying about fundraising or polling numbers to make him appear weaker; ordering all candidates numerically by polling numbers, except for Sanders, who's listed further down than he should (etc); outright lying about him; and just generally seeming to forget that he even exists. I could link to dozens of articles outlining the anti-Bernie bias in the mainstream media. In the most recent example (the latest NH poll), which is what I'm assuming was being referred to, here are the headlines from CNN: "A disappointing poll for Biden" "Early state primary voters much more undecided than voters nationally" "Buttigieg in fourth, but a strong fourth" "Sanders and Warren sit at top in New Hampshire, but there's no clear front-runner" "This is a historically unprecedented New Hampshire mess" Notice how not a single one actually mentions him winning in headlines. In fact, he's slightly gained since last poll while Warren slightly fell. Crickets. He isn't winning. None of them are winning, The primaries don't start for another 4 months. Until then, there are debates and polls. Constant whining about how badly Sanders is treated by the media is getting ridiculous, because it isn't true. In fact, I'm more aware of Sanders than I am of other candidates (except for Biden, whom I detest). I'm a Warren supporter, so if I'm aware of Sanders (i.e., I notice news about his campaign), he's certainy not being "disappeared". I doubt if Sanders is interested in having his supporters portray him as someone who is being dissed. He projects a strong persona when he speaks, and he'd probably prefer to be thought of that way, than someone who needs his supporters to constantly complain about him being treated badly. It makes him sound like he can't stand up for himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Knight of Cydonia Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sally said: He isn't winning. None of them are winning, The primaries don't start for another 4 months. Until then, there are debates and polls. I should have said "leading", not "winning", but the point stands. 13 minutes ago, Sally said: Constant whining about how badly Sanders is treated by the media is getting ridiculous, because it isn't true. In fact, I'm more aware of Sanders than I am of other candidates (except for Biden, whom I detest). I'm a Warren supporter, so if I'm aware of Sanders (i.e., I notice news about his campaign), he's certainy not being "disappeared". Do you honestly not see any problem with the outright lies about his actions and related numbers? If the same kind of incorrect and/or misleading information is done for Biden and Warren, then sure - it's just the way the media works, then! But the issue is that I see no evidence for that. Only for Sanders. And there's an obvious reason for that, too. And you being aware of Sanders doesn't mean there isn't a problem. There is a huge issue with how the media portrays him and his supporters, and how the media makes him seem as undesireable as possible. Many articles that do get written about him, for instance, have a pervasive negative spin. 28 minutes ago, Sally said: I doubt if Sanders is interested in having his supporters portray him as someone who is being dissed. He projects a strong persona when he speaks, and he'd probably prefer to be thought of that way, than someone who needs his supporters to constantly complain about him being treated badly. It makes him sound like he can't stand up for himself. His campaign manager actually recognized anti-Bernie bias in an email sent to Sanders supporters (referring to it as the Bernie Blackout), and Bernie himself has been complaing about media bias and corporatism for a long time. I don't think that makes him look weak. He has a right to talk about it, it's an issue that doesn't just affect him, and in my opinion is only getting worse with time. Spoiler More evidence, if anyone actually cares to look into it. https://medium.com/@ryansullivan000/manufacturing-dissent-the-medias-bias-against-bernie-sanders-a84e97d947cb https://therealnews.com/stories/corporate-media-bias-against-sanders-is-structural-not-a-conspiracy https://www.vox.com/2019/8/14/20802129/bernie-sanders-2020-corporate-media-bias-explained https://jacobinmag.com/2019/10/mainstream-media-punditry-elite-bernie-sanders-cable-news https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/14/why-bernie-sanders-absolutely-correct-about-washington-post-and-corporate-media https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/08/the-pundit-class-continues-to-misunderstand-bernie-sanders-and-it-shows https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/memo-to-mainstream-journalists-can-the-phony-outrage-bernie-is-right-about-bias/ https://blog.infegy.com/the-media-bias-against-bernie-sanders-examined-in-4-charts MSNBC bias: https://fair.org/home/msnbcs-anti-sanders-bias-makes-it-forget-how-to-do-math/ https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/bernie-sanders-msnbc-clintons-vast-right-wing-conspiracy https://www.truthdig.com/articles/msnbcs-anti-sanders-bias-is-getting-truly-ridiculous/ WaPo bias: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/bernie-sanders-washington-post-media-complaint-872349/ https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/15/if-youre-looking-evidence-wapo-media-bias-against-bernie-sanders-here-it https://medium.com/@kevin_33184/the-washington-posts-well-documented-bias-against-bernie-sanders-be808aca8c94 https://jacobinmag.com/2019/08/washington-post-bernie-sanders-media-2020-coverage https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-washington-posts-anti-sanders-bias-is-irrefutable/ NYT bias: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-new-york-times-vs-bernie/ https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-new-york-times-has-it-in-for-bernie-sanders/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/07/bernie-sanders-sydney-ember-new-york-times NPR bias: https://medium.com/@simonreid/anti-sanders-bias-by-npr-others-fails-to-sway-voters-in-michigan-60e10af38b44 CNN bias: https://reclaimthenet.org/cnn-bernie-sanders-red-as-beet/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/cnn-accused-of-media-bias-against-bernie-sanders-after-focusing-too-much-on-super-delegates-a7067446.html More Manufacturing Consent: https://fair.org/home/what-media-like-best-about-elizabeth-warren-shes-not-bernie-sanders/ https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/09/12/can-debate-moderators-stop-parroting-gop-talking-points Link to post Share on other sites
ForceGhost Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Nick2 said: No republicans voted for the rules on impeachment today. The House will impeach in the next month or two but the Senate will NEVER convict. NEVER. He has already taken the republican party down with him. They would impeach him if it was oppidite day Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 @Sally I don't know how much regional influence of localized media still exists with the internet and cable news, but it might be worth noting that we live in a state where you can probably buy "feel the burn" brand weed (forgive me if I am misremembering your location!) Washington has a lot of support for Sanders and so we might not have the same view of who's getting talked about as elsewhere. I haven't been paying attention myself so...? and is it generally accepted as accurate that the media has over-reported on Mr Biden? Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Knight of Cydonia said: I should have said "leading", not "winning", but the point stands. Do you honestly not see any problem with the outright lies about his actions and related numbers? If the same kind of incorrect and/or misleading information is done for Biden and Warren, then sure - it's just the way the media works, then! But the issue is that I see no evidence for that. Only for Sanders. And there's an obvious reason for that, too. And you being aware of Sanders doesn't mean there isn't a problem. There is a huge issue with how the media portrays him and his supporters, and how the media makes him seem as undesireable as possible. Many articles that do get written about him, for instance, have a pervasive negative spin. His campaign manager actually recognized anti-Bernie bias in an email sent to Sanders supporters (referring to it as the Bernie Blackout), and Bernie himself has been complaing about media bias and corporatism for a long time. I don't think that makes him look weak. He has a right to talk about it, it's an issue that doesn't just affect him, and in my opinion is only getting worse with time. Reveal hidden contents More evidence, if anyone actually cares to look into it. https://medium.com/@ryansullivan000/manufacturing-dissent-the-medias-bias-against-bernie-sanders-a84e97d947cb https://therealnews.com/stories/corporate-media-bias-against-sanders-is-structural-not-a-conspiracy https://www.vox.com/2019/8/14/20802129/bernie-sanders-2020-corporate-media-bias-explained https://jacobinmag.com/2019/10/mainstream-media-punditry-elite-bernie-sanders-cable-news https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/14/why-bernie-sanders-absolutely-correct-about-washington-post-and-corporate-media https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/08/the-pundit-class-continues-to-misunderstand-bernie-sanders-and-it-shows https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/memo-to-mainstream-journalists-can-the-phony-outrage-bernie-is-right-about-bias/ https://blog.infegy.com/the-media-bias-against-bernie-sanders-examined-in-4-charts MSNBC bias: https://fair.org/home/msnbcs-anti-sanders-bias-makes-it-forget-how-to-do-math/ https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/bernie-sanders-msnbc-clintons-vast-right-wing-conspiracy https://www.truthdig.com/articles/msnbcs-anti-sanders-bias-is-getting-truly-ridiculous/ WaPo bias: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/bernie-sanders-washington-post-media-complaint-872349/ https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/08/15/if-youre-looking-evidence-wapo-media-bias-against-bernie-sanders-here-it https://medium.com/@kevin_33184/the-washington-posts-well-documented-bias-against-bernie-sanders-be808aca8c94 https://jacobinmag.com/2019/08/washington-post-bernie-sanders-media-2020-coverage https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-washington-posts-anti-sanders-bias-is-irrefutable/ NYT bias: https://www.thenation.com/article/the-new-york-times-vs-bernie/ https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-new-york-times-has-it-in-for-bernie-sanders/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/07/bernie-sanders-sydney-ember-new-york-times NPR bias: https://medium.com/@simonreid/anti-sanders-bias-by-npr-others-fails-to-sway-voters-in-michigan-60e10af38b44 CNN bias: https://reclaimthenet.org/cnn-bernie-sanders-red-as-beet/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/cnn-accused-of-media-bias-against-bernie-sanders-after-focusing-too-much-on-super-delegates-a7067446.html More Manufacturing Consent: https://fair.org/home/what-media-like-best-about-elizabeth-warren-shes-not-bernie-sanders/ https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/09/12/can-debate-moderators-stop-parroting-gop-talking-points What you're saying is your opinion. You've insisted that MSM has willfully ignored Sanders. I've said that no, they haven't, because although I haven't sought out stories about him, I've still seen them, because I read the MSM. And I said that Sanders, himself, probably isn't terribly in favor of what you and other fans claim, because he seems to me to be a pretty mature, level-headed guy who isn't claiming that he's misunderstood or ignored. You and his other fans are, and you're not doing him any good by being so worked up about it. Just get out of his way and let him run his campaign. So that's all I have to say about it. There's no need to repeat the same stuff you've said above. Link to post Share on other sites
Tyger Songbird Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 12:31 AM, Sally said: What you're saying is your opinion. You've insisted that MSM has willfully ignored Sanders. I've said that no, they haven't, because although I haven't sought out stories about him, I've still seen them, because I read the MSM. And I said that Sanders, himself, probably isn't terribly in favor of what you and other fans claim, because he seems to me to be a pretty mature, level-headed guy who isn't claiming that he's misunderstood or ignored. You and his other fans are, and you're not doing him any good by being so worked up about it. Just get out of his way and let him run his campaign. So that's all I have to say about it. There's no need to repeat the same stuff you've said above. His statements about Jeff Bezos did lead to a lot of controversy between Sanders and the Washington Post. That's well documented, where the Washington Post was caught lying about Sanders's own statements where they refused retraction over Pinnochios. So, that's a major publication doing spin jobs. Many people have overall stated a Bernie Blackout, just like the blackouts over the UAW walkouts or the teachers' strike in Chicago. All you heard was "Teachers still on strike". It was never the reason why. So, there has been a rather concerted effort to suppress big things, especially by media pundits at large. Independent media still needs to take over from oligarchic media control. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, tygersongbird said: just like the blackouts over the UAW walkouts or the teachers' strike in Chicago. All you heard was "Teachers still on strike". It was never the reason why. So, there has been a rather concerted effort to suppress big things, especially by media pundits at large. Independent media still needs to take over from oligarchic media control. I read quite a bit about the teachers' strike in Chicago AND the UAW walkouts in the general media outlets. But let's end this, because you are essentially telling me that I couldn't have read what I in fact have read. Link to post Share on other sites
Tyger Songbird Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 On 11/3/2019 at 9:40 PM, Sally said: I read quite a bit about the teachers' strike in Chicago AND the UAW walkouts in the general media outlets. But let's end this, because you are essentially telling me that I couldn't have read what I in fact have read. What's your definition of general media? NBC, MSNBC, CBS, PBS, CNN? Link to post Share on other sites
Tyger Songbird Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 Andy Beshear is declared the winner for governor of Kentucky. Matt Bevin has lost. Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, tygersongbird said: Andy Beshear is declared the winner for governor of Kentucky. Matt Bevin has lost. That's great! (now, if only another Kentucky incumbent can be voted out...) Link to post Share on other sites
Tyger Songbird Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, daveb said: That's great! (now, if only another Kentucky incumbent can be voted out...) Wait, I though he represents Moscow?!😜 Link to post Share on other sites
Nick2 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Hey, it is not all bad for Trump. Shawn Spicer got enough votes to stay on Dancing With the Stars. So there. Link to post Share on other sites
Back to Avalon Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 16 hours ago, tygersongbird said: Andy Beshear is declared the winner for governor of Kentucky. Matt Bevin has lost. Maybe you already know this, but I heard a few years ago that Kentucky's gubernatorial election is seen as a predictor of the US presidential election because the Kentucky election happens the year before we elect a president. In 2015 Kentuckians elected a Republican businessman with no political experience who, over the past four years, has been difficult, has spent taxpayer money on a private plane, has insulted teachers, and has tried to take away people's healthcare coverage. He became the least popular governor in the country. Yesterday he lost, so I'm hopeful about next year, but if anyone can pull off an unlikely victory, it's Trump. A lot of other Republicans in other Kentucky races (attorney general, secretary of state, auditor, etc.) won by big margins, yet Bevin managed to lose in a red state. That shows you just how unpopular he is. (It's worth noting, though, that the vote is close and might go to a recount. Bevin hasn't conceded.) Link to post Share on other sites
Zagadka Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 lol, MSNBC and CNN have straight up just left Bernie off of their poll graphics and charts now. Link to post Share on other sites
Nick2 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 It is worse than that. The Ky legislature has drug up a low not used in 120 years. It gives the legislature the right to name a gov in a contested election. So all the gov has to do is say he thinks it is contested and bam. He stays in as gov. This cannot go to the courts. They will steal this election. Wait and see. Just in, the president of the Ky senate says that if there had not been a 3rd party candidate that the gov would have gotten most of those vote so that is the excuse to give it to the current gov. Link to post Share on other sites
Gloomy Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Now THIS is a debate. Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 ah, good to Vermin Supreme still spreading the good word. for pony ownership. Link to post Share on other sites
Back to Avalon Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 On 11/6/2019 at 3:25 PM, Nick2 said: It is worse than that. The Ky legislature has drug up a low not used in 120 years. It gives the legislature the right to name a gov in a contested election. So all the gov has to do is say he thinks it is contested and bam. He stays in as gov. This cannot go to the courts. They will steal this election. Wait and see. After I read this, I saw a story that confirmed it--the Kentucky legislature can decide a contested election. I think Bevin has 30 days after the Kentucky secretary of state certifies the results to formally contest. Bevin has been saying that there were "voting irregularities," which I guess is his way of laying the groundwork for contesting the election. Some say that the legislature won't overturn an election and that he should either produce proof of the alleged irregularities or concede. (I'm trying to find these articles.) Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bloomberg - just what we need. Not. Link to post Share on other sites
Zagadka Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bloomberg - fine by me. All he'll do is take votes from Biden and others. Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bloomberg... hm... wasn't expecting that. I get the idea that the Democratic party may be afraid to run someone possibly deemed extreme like Warren and Bernie, but Biden and Buttigieg are pretty moderate. Even if Biden crashes in the primaries Buttigieg is still there and it would be doubtful both would crash. I just don't understand Bloomberg's reasoning. What will probably happen is the primary will come down between one seen as more extreme (Warren or Bernie) versus one seen as more moderate (Biden or Buttigieg). Bloomberg will just squeeze the moderate group even more unless Biden collapses and Buttigieg slowly loses his appeal. Bloomberg seems like a Nelson Rockefeller-type politician, which would be interesting. We don't see socially-liberal but semi-fiscally-conservative politicians too much any more. I'm a bit wary of billionaire presidents, even more so since Trump, but at least Bloomberg is a philanthropic billionaire, as opposed to Trump who seems bordering on a kleptomaniac. Link to post Share on other sites
Alawyn-Aebt Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Actually I just figured out a possible reason why Bloomberg might run and why he has a chance (however small) to reshape the political landscape: the fact he is socially-liberal and semi-fiscally-conservative. What always never made sense to me about self-proclaimed conservative politicians is that if one is is a conservative that means you are committed to conserving things, while in practice conservatives generally don't conserve. The conservative debtphobia pretty much had been ignored by the Republicans. Any idea of conserving the environment left the Republicans with Theodore Roosevelt (maybe Nixon, but that is a stretch). Any idea of a small-yet-effective-and-genuinely-caring-and-helpful government left the Republicans long ago too. While as mayor Bloomberg did institute some policies liberals disagree with, many of his policies presented him as overall socially-liberal. In a world where younger Republicans are substantially more likely to worry about climate change and support abortion rights and gay marriage than the governing Republicans, Bloomberg might be able to tap into this, after all he can claim to have reduced the New York City debt while increasing public services, including pay to teachers, while trying to come up with solutions to fight climate change. If Bloomberg can tap into this he might be able to reshape the patterns along which people vote. Also, as much as I wish I didn't have to say it, Biden seems more like a vote against Trump than a vote for anything, not likely to change the party lines or voting patterns (and we know how that worked out with Hillary). If Bloomberg plays his cards rights (and his money) he could make himself out to be a Better-Biden-Than-Biden. Not saying I particularly think President Bloomberg is particularly appealing (any more so than simply being not-Trump), but he actually does have an opening now that I have thought about it more. Link to post Share on other sites
Tyger Songbird Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 Matt Bevin conceded. Beshear wins Link to post Share on other sites
natsume Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 It's Biden or Trump, so sayeth our oligarchs! https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/wall-street-democratic-donors-may-back-trump-if-warren-is-nominated.html Link to post Share on other sites
Marrow Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I honestly cant even choose at this point (couldnt choose last time either) both parties are so deranged and toxic that I find it difficult to encourage myself to even vote. Link to post Share on other sites
Gentle Giant Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Kamala Harris is dropping out of the race. Link to post Share on other sites
SithLord Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 11:36 AM, Marrow said: I honestly cant even choose at this point (couldnt choose last time either) both parties are so deranged and toxic that I find it difficult to encourage myself to even vote. It's still super important to vote! Even if you write someone in or vote for a 3rd party, or SOMEONE! Try and let your voice be heard. Not voting is giving up on the system. Those who vote in the US only make up about 60%! That's 40% of people who just complain that the system failed them without trying to contribute. Think about it. Trump won with less than a majority of voters. That means less than 30% of the population voted for him! (50% of the 60% statistic). If the 40% of people who didn't vote all voted for the same person, that would've been more votes than Trump got! Link to post Share on other sites
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