HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN ASEXUAL ?

[James121]

7 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

@James121, some people do. Not many, I'll accept, but some do. Just take the late Freddie Mercury as an example, he went from girlfriend to gay, and others like Frank Warren discover a new gender identity at a late age 

 

No Freddie Mercury went from being gay and in denial to gay and no longer in denial. He didn’t evolve in to being homosexual.

How do you know Frank Warren discovered a new gender at a late age? I don’t see any evidence of that.

[James121]

5 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Nothing in this world is black and white @James121. Why do you think the chemicals in a brain can't change enough to alter orientation? What makes orientation so special it's immutable?

In which case why do so many asexuals get upset when people say “you just haven’t found the right partner yet” or “once you've have sex you definitely like it” and such? There’s loads of threads and posts like this.

If orientations are subject to potential change, these are absolutely perfectly reasonable comments/questions  and people should stop getting upset by them shouldn’t they?

[R_1]

Many =/= All people. The thing is that like personality, vision, hearing, sensory system are all vulnerable to changes in structure of the brain and chemical of the brain to the point where it can't be denied that even inherent traits are subjected to being affected by brain changes. As with all the other inherent aspects, sexuality doesn't have immunity to changes within structure of the brain. There's no evidence to suggest sexuality get a pass from that like at all. A person get wacked hard enough in the head, he could go deaf or blind. He may be born sighted or hearing, but that all can go away from being wacked hard in the head.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

1 minute ago, James121 said:

In which case why do so many asexuals get upset when people say “you just haven’t found the right partner yet” or “once you've have sex you definitely like it” and such? There’s loads of threads and posts like this.

If orientations are subject to potential change, these are absolutely perfectly reasonable comments/questions  and people should stop getting upset by them shouldn’t they?

They shouldn't, I've said that myself. It's when people just flat out refuse to drop the subject I get pissed, because at some point it becomes ace-erasure. No one said it was common to change orientation, but certainly possible given how brains are just biological computers.

[Charna]

19 hours ago, James121 said:

I think you’ve missed the point entirely. OP said “I used to love sex now I’ve become asexual”, people agreed, I said you can not develop a sexual orientation. You are X, Y or Z. Simple 

No, I didn't miss the op's point. Let me repeat the question, so that it's clear: why do you assume what goes for heterosexuals or homosexuals, also must hold true for asexuals? This is not a question about whether sexual orientation can be fluid (I already posted my opinion on that).

[treetopteresa]

Yes I really do believe I have always been Asexual. I never had "feelings" for either my male or female friends growing up. I have always been the "third wheel" and dont mind it. Always been the one my friends came to talk. The only thing I hate about my life is that I am not just Asexual but also an Introvert so I tend to be alone most of the time. Luckily I have cats and my parrots to keep me company. The hard part is dealing with people that are too dense to understand that Im not broken; I dont need a good "shag" to fix me.

[knittinghistorian]

21 hours ago, James121 said:

No Freddie Mercury went from being gay and in denial to gay and no longer in denial. He didn’t evolve in to being homosexual.

Wasn't he actually bi?  (I've heard that's what the song "Bicycle Races" is subtly about.)

[Roy M.]

Yeah, I've always been asexual.  Isn't that how it works?

[R_1]

1 hour ago, Roy M. said:

Yeah, I've always been asexual.  Isn't that how it works?

For most people. I'm not one of those though.

[Roy M.]

1 hour ago, R_1 said:

For most people. I'm not one of those though.

How so?

[R_1]

36 minutes ago, Roy M. said:

How so?

I'll link to my other response as I can't quote it via phone - 

there isn't a good explanation other than my sexuality changed by itself. No choice involved.

[James121]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:58 PM, knittinghistorian said:

Wasn't he actually bi?  (I've heard that's what the song "Bicycle Races" is subtly about.)

Quite possibly. He most certainly was not one day hetro and then one day gay as suggested is possible by others.

[James121]

On 4/20/2019 at 3:20 PM, Charna said:

No, I didn't miss the op's point. Let me repeat the question, so that it's clear: why do you assume what goes for heterosexuals or homosexuals, also must hold true for asexuals? This is not a question about whether sexual orientation can be fluid (I already posted my opinion on that).

Because asexuals are still human beings.

[R_1]

No one is saying asexuals aren't human beings. How do you explain my case when all explanations other than it changed fail? Nothing that comes from born this way works at all. How do you explain the 2 strokes study without making the born this way for everybody unfalsiable and ignoring that 2 strokes can do a lot of things to inherent traits? You got nothing here.

[Charna]

23 hours ago, James121 said:

Because asexuals are still human beings.

And? Just because we are all human doesn't mean we are all the same. You still haven't explained how you go from the mechanics of human reproduction to the supposed connection with sexual orientation.

 

Humans are incredibly complex; it's possible that not all sexual orientations are determineted by the same biological factors. Assumptions based on the idea the majority is the rule that goes for everyone else can be very problematic, imo. Because I've heard this 'and the penis goes into the vagina' argument before, usually followed by a variation of the 'and that's why only heterosexuality is normal'.

 

[James121]

11 hours ago, Charna said:

And? Just because we are all human doesn't mean we are all the same. You still haven't explained how you go from the mechanics of human reproduction to the supposed connection with sexual orientation.

 

Humans are incredibly complex; it's possible that not all sexual orientations are determineted by the same biological factors. Assumptions based on the idea the majority is the rule that goes for everyone else can be very problematic, imo. Because I've heard this 'and the penis goes into the vagina' argument before, usually followed by a variation of the 'and that's why only heterosexuality is normal'.

 

You’ve gone off track and misunderstood.

[Charna]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:44 AM, James121 said:

You’ve gone off track and misunderstood.

Then please explain, because what you have posted so far makes no sense to me.

[James121]

7 hours ago, Charna said:

Then please explain, because what you have posted so far makes no sense to me.

Word for word, this is what the original post said.....

 

I thought I would raise this topic, HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN ASEXUAL ?

I ask because I was once very sexual and enjoyed it but I feel that as I have gone through life, Asexuality is something I have grown into, I would even say EVOLVED into.

What are your stories and your thoughts  ???

 

I don’t believe that your sexual orientation evolves. If it does then every person on this forum that sits there moaning and groaning about how people don’t accept them for being asexual should stop because maybe people are just hoping that they will grow out of it (aka evolve). This is the very thing that loads of asexual people on this forum chuck their toys out of the pram over.

 

”he said just try sex and eventually you’ll like it”

 

”she said it’s just a phase” 

 

“they just don’t understand that this is me”

 

Perhaps.... asexuals should force themselves to have regular sex! Perhaps they should just consider it a phase. Perhaps the sexual person is the one who understands them best because after all, we can just evolve out of our sexual orientation. 

You can’t evolve out of your sexual orientation any more so than you evolve out of being male or female.

 

[MLJ]

I think I've always been asexual. I just didn't know it.

 

I do believe that a traumatic brain injury could change sexual orientation; brain damage can change lots of things about a person. But short of a severe injury to the brain, I think sexual orientation in the vast majority of people is stable. People's understanding of their sexual orientation may change over time (I always thought I was just really bad at being heterosexual - I didn't even know asexuality existed), but I don't think the orientation itself changes.

 

If sexual orientation was fluid and easy to change, there wouldn't be so many people struggling with non-heteronormative sexualities. And I think we'd be a lot better at knowing how to change people's sexual orientations - there has certainly been a lot of effort put forth to try to turn homosexuals into heterosexuals.

[long nights]

For as long as I can remember I have never felt any sexual attraction towards anyone.

[R_1]

9 hours ago, MLJ said:

If sexual orientation was fluid and easy to change, there wouldn't be so many people struggling with non-heteronormative sexualities. And I think we'd be a lot better at knowing how to change people's sexual orientations - there has certainly been a lot of effort put forth to try to turn homosexuals into heterosexuals.

IIRC, Lisa Diamonds did a 10 years study on women's sexuality and there were over 2000 women involved, and for some of them, their id did shift radically, but they answered that they didn't really see it as a phase or finding out. It felt quite natural to them. So, brain damages is not necessary. But, you could argue weird wirings could explain it.

[R_1]

10 hours ago, James121 said:

Word for word, this is what the original post said.....

 

I thought I would raise this topic, HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN ASEXUAL ?

I ask because I was once very sexual and enjoyed it but I feel that as I have gone through life, Asexuality is something I have grown into, I would even say EVOLVED into.

What are your stories and your thoughts  ???

 

I don’t believe that your sexual orientation evolves. If it does then every person on this forum that sits there moaning and groaning about how people don’t accept them for being asexual should stop because maybe people are just hoping that they will grow out of it (aka evolve). This is the very thing that loads of asexual people on this forum chuck their toys out of the pram over.

 

”he said just try sex and eventually you’ll like it”

 

”she said it’s just a phase” 

 

“they just don’t understand that this is me”

 

Perhaps.... asexuals should force themselves to have regular sex! Perhaps they should just consider it a phase. Perhaps the sexual person is the one who understands them best because after all, we can just evolve out of our sexual orientation. 

You can’t evolve out of your sexual orientation any more so than you evolve out of being male or female.

 

Since I have hard time responding to two quotes on phone and about to sleep, I'll leave two responses.

 

I don't think the notion that sexuality can change mean one should force themselves. I dunno where you came up with that idea. It only means that there exists a possibility. To us who actually experienced extreme changes, we didn't force ourselves or did anything to try to make it happen, it more that sexuality changed by itself out of nowhere with no way to explain it other than shit happens. Kinda like suddenly losing taste for a food, it'd be like that. Was losing taste was a choice? No. Can you explain it? No. Did you forced yourself? No.

[James121]

5 hours ago, R_1 said:

Since I have hard time responding to two quotes on phone and about to sleep, I'll leave two responses.

 

I don't think the notion that sexuality can change mean one should force themselves. I dunno where you came up with that idea. It only means that there exists a possibility. To us who actually experienced extreme changes, we didn't force ourselves or did anything to try to make it happen, it more that sexuality changed by itself out of nowhere with no way to explain it other than shit happens. Kinda like suddenly losing taste for a food, it'd be like that. Was losing taste was a choice? No. Can you explain it? No. Did you forced yourself? No.

Your taste for food can’t really be compared your taste in sexual partner. The comparison is a little off.

[R_1]

People use food analogy all the time just for that. Now, do you actually have a peer reviewed study that suggests it is impossible for sexuality to change? You need to find one that invalidates every of the studies I found, many of Lisa Diamonds studies, and somehow supports all are born that way with no wiggle room for people who breaks that rule. Majority do not represent and is not equal to all.

 

Guess not.

[Charna]

20 hours ago, James121 said:

Word for word, this is what the original post said.....

 

I thought I would raise this topic, HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN ASEXUAL ?

I ask because I was once very sexual and enjoyed it but I feel that as I have gone through life, Asexuality is something I have grown into, I would even say EVOLVED into.

What are your stories and your thoughts  ???

 

I don’t believe that your sexual orientation evolves. If it does then every person on this forum that sits there moaning and groaning about how people don’t accept them for being asexual should stop because maybe people are just hoping that they will grow out of it (aka evolve). This is the very thing that loads of asexual people on this forum chuck their toys out of the pram over.

 

”he said just try sex and eventually you’ll like it”

 

”she said it’s just a phase” 

 

“they just don’t understand that this is me”

 

Perhaps.... asexuals should force themselves to have regular sex! Perhaps they should just consider it a phase. Perhaps the sexual person is the one who understands them best because after all, we can just evolve out of our sexual orientation. 

You can’t evolve out of your sexual orientation any more so than you evolve out of being male or female.

 

And now you are being obtuse on purpose. My original questions to you was regarding your assumption that what goes for heterosexual and homosexual should hold true for asexuals. To which you have brought your up the biology of reproduction as the explanation.

 

So perhaps instead of sidestepping the question, could you actually answer what this supposed connection between sexual orientation, someone's sexual organs and ability to have children is?

 

 

[Charna]

20 hours ago, MLJ said:

If sexual orientation was fluid and easy to change, there wouldn't be so many people struggling with non-heteronormative sexualities. And I think we'd be a

ot better at knowing how to change people's sexual orientations - there has certainly been a lot of effort put forth to try to turn homosexuals into heterosexuals.

I think the underlying problem is equating the two: subjected to change = it is a choice. It's an old homophobic argument (or really an againt-anything -that is not heterosexuality argument), same as with reducing anything sex-related to reproduction purposes. But any living being undergoes a lot of changes during its lifespan that happen with no control over them. No one chooses to grow old, for example.

 

[James121]

6 hours ago, Charna said:

So perhaps instead of sidestepping the question, could you actually answer what this supposed connection between sexual orientation, someone's sexual organs and ability to have children is?

Talking to you is like hitting my head in a brick wall. Which is actually an excellent way of answering the question.

 

6 hours ago, Charna said:

My original questions to you was regarding your assumption that what goes for heterosexual and homosexual should hold true for asexuals.

If a heterosexual, a homosexual and asexual hit their head repeatedly on a brick wall, does the asexual get some amazingly different outcome to the other two? No he/she does not because 99% of the time, humans are built pretty much the same.

You can be fat but hitting your head is the same as if you are thin.

You can be tall, but hitting your head is the same as if you were short.

You can be black, but hitting your head is the same as if you were white and finally,

You can be heterosexual, homosexual or asexual but you can’t evolve out of your sexuality. Your sexuality is not like a religion that you follow and you can’t hit your head repeatedly on a brick wall and expect it to tickle your elbow.

 

I’m hoping that I have answered the question for you. Even a small child could understand what I am saying.

[Charna]

8 hours ago, James121 said:

Talking to you is like hitting my head in a brick wall. Which is actually an excellent way of answering the question.

 

If a heterosexual, a homosexual and asexual hit their head repeatedly on a brick wall, does the asexual get some amazingly different outcome to the other two? No he/she does not because 99% of the time, humans are built pretty much the same.

You can be fat but hitting your head is the same as if you are thin.

You can be tall, but hitting your head is the same as if you were short.

You can be black, but hitting your head is the same as if you were white and finally,

You can be heterosexual, homosexual or asexual but you can’t evolve out of your sexuality. Your sexuality is not like a religion that you follow and you can’t hit your head repeatedly on a brick wall and expect it to tickle your elbow.

 

I’m hoping that I have answered the question for you. Even a small child could understand what I am saying.

I understand what you are saying. I have heard this argument before, originally against homosexuality, but now extended to other sexual orientations. It´s based on two assumptions: that the exception disproves the rule, and that subjected to change = it is a choice.

 

Humans are incredibly complex. The vast majority of our experiences and our identity can´t be explained by the simple mechanics of biological processes, at least not with our current stand of knowledge. Even your own example, because the outcome of hitting your head against a wall can be very different, from "no harm done" to actual death.

 

If one in a million people can survive head trauma that is considered deadly, does this somehow make it less deadly for the rest of us? No.

So why do you assume that if one in a million people would find their sexual orientation changing, this would somehow invalidate the experiences of everyone else? You are the one going from "one person" to " every person on this forum that sits there moaning and groaning about how people don’t accept them for being asexual".

And if we are same 99% of the time, where do the different sexual orientations come from?

 

 

[James121]

5 hours ago, Charna said:

I have heard this argument before, originally against homosexuality,

I don’t follow what you are saying when you say an argument “against”. I’m not against anything but just because I’m not against certain religions doesn’t mean I am therefore compelled to follow them or agree with them.

 

5 hours ago, Charna said:

It´s based on two assumptions: that the exception disproves the rule, and that subjected to change = it is a choice.

I’m not saying that it’s a choice if you go from sexual to asexual. Not at all.

Im saying that if you go from sexual to asexual, you have actually gone from sexual to sexual with no libido.

I am of the understanding that being asexual is a lot more then just having a low or zero libido. With that in mind, the OP was originally sexual and lost her/his libido. Nothing more.

 

5 hours ago, Charna said:

And if we are same 99% of the time, where do the different sexual orientations come from?

....from birth when you grow inside your mum. The decision on what sex, eye colour, hair colour and what sexual orientation you will be happens right there.

 

5 hours ago, Charna said:

Humans are incredibly complex. 

In which case it should be fine for sexual people to dismiss the idea that asexuals will go through life without ever liking, enjoying and pursuing sex? 

[R_1]

2 hours ago, James121 said:

I’m not saying that it’s a choice if you go from sexual to asexual. Not at all.

Im saying that if you go from sexual to asexual, you have actually gone from sexual to sexual with no libido.

I am of the understanding that being asexual is a lot more then just having a low or zero libido. With that in mind, the OP was originally sexual and lost her/his libido. Nothing more.

Just how do you know libido was lost in the OP. Also, my libido was never lost in the sexual orientation transition. It just that it is no longer directed at any one in particular. Even if libido was lost in OP, so what? If the OP is every bit the same in how born this way asexual responds to the world, there is no point into using sexual when there is no guarantee of ir being back. What would be the point? False hope?