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RoseGoesToYale

Free phone call from jail

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G0D
On 4/8/2019 at 7:04 AM, RoseGoesToYale said:

I wasn't going to make this thread, but now I think I am. Any time a person is arrested in a democratic society (or at least, I know the US and Canada do this, at least, in the movies it always works like this... I'm not a law expert) that person is allowed at least one phone call, presumably to let their mother know that they are in fact alive, are in jail, and maybe this time, just this time, need some help. I have noticed that no such extension exists here, and that at any random time, AVEN members I know and friends might be under a ban for any indeterminate period of time and the rest of the forum will not be apprised of this fact. It is in this situation I may scramble, in my very much anxiety-plagued skull, to ascertain what horrible fate may have befallen them.

 

Being that this is an online locale, it's much easier to drop off the face of a forum than from real life, because if you drop out of real life people tend to notice. In the event a well-established AVEN member is about to take a short, long, or eternal hiatus, they will usually post a status update to that effect, informing how long they will be gone and when/if they will return and various benedictions, so as to lessen the anxiety of friends and assure them of their aliveness, safety, and health. However, and I'm not apprised of how exactly the banning procedure works, bans do appear to be immediate and affect the posting of status updates, so a banned member may not be able to inform others of their nowhereabouts for the duration of that time.

 

Yes, there is always the possibility of someone picking up the jail phone and telling Joe Bozo to hurry up, flush the rest of the stash and get outta there, but in this instance I believe most members would use such a privilege merely to inform others that they are safe, but banned. Perhaps a penalty of increased severity in the event a member misuses phone privileges. A member need not go into detail about the ban, just that it is happening and for how long, and they may choose not to post anything if they wish.

 

I thus present my case for the allowance of a single status update in the event of a ban, so that we may not worry that anyone has met their untimely death. Is this possible? (If not, please excuse this thread and my awful attempts at puffy-sounding Victorian English...)

YES YES YES YES YES !!!!!

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CBC
21 minutes ago, Serran said:

And everyone that knew Shockwave or other AVENites we have lost...

Oh man, I remember hearing about that. Made me really sad. :( 

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Serran
1 minute ago, CBC said:

Oh man, I remember hearing about that. Made me really sad. :( 

I didnt know him well, but he was a fixture of chat and then just kinda disappeared.. and then next thing I heard was someone posting the link to the thread about his passing. Was very sad for the whole community. 

 

And.. I know people worry that is the scenario they will come to with others. Especially when a lot of our more troubled users also tend to be suicidal and such. 

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G0D
On 4/8/2019 at 7:33 AM, Puck said:

But this isn't a government. This is a private organization offering free use of it's resources.

 

Do you know of other forums or sites that use this? If so, how do they exact it?

Oh, and there was me thinking that AVEN was some how supposed to be about representing asexual people, you know I keep forgetting it's a private company that can do what the fuck it wants without any recourse or responsibility to it's membership. Oh but if people elect you, then that's different, then you get to spend all your time judging people. 

 

My advice If you get booted from here, Drop by ASM, and I am sure one of us will post a status update to your time line on your behalf. 

 

Jesus this place makes me fucking MAD some times. It's all about "caring and tolerance" until someone comes along with the "wrong opinions". The stupid thing is that the rational is that it's about privacy, but if you wait 6 months, you get to see EXACTLY what went on in declass... Why Doesn't AVEN just advertise as a private company that provides a free service to people it chooses to accept? Get rid of the whole visibility thing. It amazes me that people accept a private company as their representation of asexuality.

 

In answer to your Question YES ASM would do this happily.. As above ASM would do this on behalf of anyone too... ASM is NOT a private company, and is setup as a representative cooperative... Now dis ASM for "hate speech or something".... God you know none of you would get to sit in those positions of power without your members, and their donations. I'd love to know where the money goes cos you get about 4 times the hosting fees at a minimum. I'll shut up..

 

Jeesus.. Christ.. Sorry that just made me fucking mad... 

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CBC
4 minutes ago, Serran said:

I didnt know him well, but he was a fixture of chat and then just kinda disappeared.. and then next thing I heard was someone posting the link to the thread about his passing. Was very sad for the whole community. 

 

And.. I know people worry that is the scenario they will come to with others. Especially when a lot of our more troubled users also tend to be suicidal and such. 

Yeah I didn't know him super well either, and I was never a chat person, but I remember well a handful of interactions with him on the forums and I liked him a lot.

 

But yeah I agree with all of what you said. Although I'm unlikely to ever commit suicide, I'm probably one of the "troubled users", and I'm chronically physically unwell, so. I realised lots of people wondered where I was during my recent suspension.

 

(And no, for those wondering, Shock didn't take his own life, he was unwell for a long time.)

 

 

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G0D

Incidentally to add to the above, there was a member of ASM who recently went missing for a while, we went to the trouble of contacting their ISP in order to raise a request that someone just checks up on her. Since that we have been trying to think of ways where by people can leave contact details in their profile that are invisible to any one else but that mods or admins can get access to to check up on people.

 

I recently bought an apple watch simply because I am afraid for falling and not being able to raise the alarm, and I have now invented a system that if I fall it will automatically unlock my front door, and call for help. The BIG problem that faces many asexual people is that many of us don't have IRL family or close friends, and it really should be something that is addressed. 

 

This is not an advert or Spam, but if you are in a vulnerable situation, PLEASE drop by and talk to me on ASM, We are working on putting together something to check up on vulnerable people. (click the banner in muh post innit). Just PM @Lord Grep ... 

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G0D
On 4/8/2019 at 12:39 PM, Homer said:

While it sounds like a decent idea in theory, I think that all it does is causing drama-llamas. 

Let people have their drama, and be a Llama. I mean you have just told them that the asexual community rejects them, and they are no longer welcome to be a part of it. Take the hit for god's sake, Even a condemned man gets to have last words. 

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iff
43 minutes ago, G0D said:

Jesus this place makes me fucking MAD some times. It's all about "caring and tolerance" until someone comes along with the "wrong opinions". The stupid thing is that the rational is that it's about privacy, but if you wait 6 months, you get to see EXACTLY what went on in declass... Why Doesn't AVEN just advertise as a private company that provides a free service to people it chooses to accept? Get rid of the whole visibility thing. It amazes me that people accept a private company as their representation of asexuality.

Company with limited liability is a normal structure for charitable bodies. For example, Disability Federation of Ireland is a company limited by guarantee (CLG). Irish cancer society is also a CLG. Transgender equality network Ireland is a Clg. If you search the benefacts.ie website for lgbt, 7 of the 9 charities that come up are companies limited by guarantee

 

[I am referring to Irish bodies here as I know how to find this information]

 

 

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G0D
36 minutes ago, iff said:

Company with limited liability is a normal structure for charitable bodies. For example, Disability Federation of Ireland is a company limited by guarantee (CLG). Irish cancer society is also a CLG. Transgender equality network Ireland is a Clg. If you search the benefacts.ie website for lgbt, 7 of the 9 charities that come up are companies limited by guarantee

 

[I am referring to Irish bodies here as I know how to find this information]

 

 

Funny.. See I wanted to find out where AVEN was registered, and in what country.. No one would tell me the company address etc.. 

 

Also just because you are setup as a company doesn't mean that you get to be a company when you want to shit on people, and then a charity, and a representative organisation when you get on media, and advertise your site. The technicalities are one thing, but the moral responsibility to those you claim to represent is something else. 

 

Some one want to let me know the company address? Can I see the accounts? Do you tell media organisations that you are a for profit company? The HUGE issue is that there is just so much of AVEN that is secret and hidden, and none of the members who PAY for the place get a say. 

 

My anger was because of what I saw as the shear arrogance of telling people "we are a company and we can do what the fuck we want". Great.. Make that clear when you ask people to donate... Make it clear in the TOS, and make it clear on the site that AVEN is a business, and provides a service to the members it chooses to accept, 

 

 

 

Seriously can you not see where I am coming from here?

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iff
10 minutes ago, G0D said:

Funny.. See I wanted to find out where AVEN was registered, and in what country.. No one would tell me the company address etc

Here was the announcement

 

 

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Philip027
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And yeah people worry if their friend they may talk to daily drops off AVEN two weeks. Some people have outside access, some don't. Doesn't mean they lack friendship just cause they didn't share emails.

Not sure I agree with that, to be honest.  If you really value someone's friendship, you will make sure you have alternate ways of communication for when one fails (I remember a time when this site was failing quite often a few years back, so it might not even necessarily be because one of you gets banned)

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firewallflower
1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Not sure I agree with that, to be honest.  If you really value someone's friendship, you will make sure you have alternate ways of communication for when one fails (I remember a time when this site was failing quite often a few years back, so it might not even necessarily be because one of you gets banned)

Not necessarily. Some people may, for any number of reasons, not be comfortable sharing outside contact information (yes, presumably a friendship includes trust, but still, there is the dimension of safety/privacy concern when it comes to online settings)—but also, it may simply not have seemed necessary or occurred to them. It might be logical to exchange backup contact info, but that doesn't mean everyone will do it... and I'm not inclined to assume that whether or not someone does it is necessarily indicative of the value of their friendship. (And besides, even if you aren't that close with someone, you still might worry when you notice an unexplained absence. For example, despite never having interacted directly outside of a few brief forum exchanges, I was slightly concerned when CBC seemingly disappeared.)

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CBC
29 minutes ago, firewallflower said:

(And besides, even if you aren't that close with someone, you still might worry when you notice an unexplained absence. For example, despite never having interacted directly outside of a few brief forum exchanges, I was slightly concerned when CBC seemingly disappeared.)

That's very true (and thank you, I appreciate the concern -- although of course I'd rather not worry anyone unnecessarily). There are people on AVEN I've met in person and people who know my full name and street address and what my favourite coffee mug looks like and what I look like first thing after I wake up in the morning and what my mum's maiden name is. There are people who know me only by the info in my profile. And vice versa. And whilst I may not be Facebook friends or follow them on Instagram or trade emails or ever get to meet up offline with those in the latter group, it doesn't mean I've no concern for them. I probably care more than I do about the people who live across the street for me. In fact I can think of a couple people who've been here for years and mean something to me pretty deeply and I've no contact info for them whatsoever.

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Philip027
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Not necessarily. Some people may, for any number of reasons, not be comfortable sharing outside contact information (yes, presumably a friendship includes trust, but still, there is the dimension of safety/privacy concern when it comes to online settings)

That's pretty much what it comes down to for me.  If someone can't even be assed to make sure they can stay in contact with me when this site goes bonkers, I can't really regard them as a friend, more like... an acquaintance.  If you wouldn't do this, to me it's an indication that you don't particularly care to stay in touch either way, and that you don't really care about said friendship.  Naturally, that kinda kills the sense of friendship for some people, myself included.

 

And really, just giving someone your email or messenger info or whatever is really nowhere on the same level as giving them all your personal information or letting them have free access to your bank account or something.

 

Without at least some degree of trust, there is no real friendship or relationship.

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Homer
4 hours ago, G0D said:

I mean you have just told them that the asexual community rejects them,

That's twisting it a bit much IMO.

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firewallflower
11 hours ago, Philip027 said:

That's pretty much what it comes down to for me.  If someone can't even be assed to make sure they can stay in contact with me when this site goes bonkers, I can't really regard them as a friend, more like... an acquaintance.  If you wouldn't do this, to me it's an indication that you don't particularly care to stay in touch either way, and that you don't really care about said friendship.  Naturally, that kinda kills the sense of friendship for some people, myself included.

All well and good and fine; for you, setting up ways to stay in touch outside of the site is a prerequisite to consider something a friendship, and that is, of course, perfectly valid. Doubtless many feel similarly—but it doesn't necessarily follow that the same goes for everyone, which is why I try not to pass judgement on how much a relationship means to anyone other than myself when basing that judgement on criteria that may vary depending on the individual.

 

But even that aside, my other points still stand; exchanging outside contact information might not even occur to some people, and even being a "mere" acquaintance doesn't mean you won't worry about someone if they vanish from the community without notice/explanation. To me, the very fact that this thread exists, and that people are stating that they have worried over friends/acquaintances when these people didn't post for an extended period of time, is evidence that some people do feel a sense of friendship/concern for those with whom they didn't share off-AVEN contact info. It's fine if that isn't the case for you, of course—but it seems apparent that it is the case for some.

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Philip027
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exchanging outside contact information might not even occur to some people,

It probably should if it's a person you actually care about (and if they care back)

 

I'll just leave it at that, really.

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