Adventures in AMWorld - Cis Het Allo Male Edition

[SCPDX]

I’m intending this as a PSA for the heterosexual allosexual menfolk of the SPF&A group here on AVEN who have consent from their ace/averse partners to seek sexual relationships outside of the marriage. It reflects my experiences on Ashley Madison (AM) to date. YMMV. As of this point, I’m only in my fourth week, but have learned a lot. Basically, I’m trying to write something I wish I had been able to read back when I started this a few weeks ago while it’s still fresh in my mind. It’s a decent read...and really long. 

 

My story (in case you don’t know) My wife started becoming sex averse 9 years into our marriage after she got pregnant with our last child. Two and a half years ago, we quit having sex. Soon after that, she started removing all physical affection, and now we have a full-on brother-sister thing going. Early in this process, she consented to opening up the marriage - in fact, it was her idea. Since then, I’ve had exactly one clear opportunity to have sex outside my marriage (business trip) and it was AMAZING. That was three years ago, and it hasn’t happened since. 

 

Why AM?: I want more opportunities. More specifically, I want to meet a woman similarly situated to me - her husband isn’t interested in sex with her and is consenting to the relationship. Lofty goal I know, but I’m not about to bring up the subject with coworkers or my wife’s friends or cruise bars or whatnot. 

 

I had been hesitant to go onto AM. They had a big data breach a few years ago that revealed that most of the women were fake profiles (more on that later.) However other articles suggested they had since gotten their act together and that it was becoming more popular among women (including some of my besties here in SPF&A.)

 

And most importantly, it should be fairly well known by this point that this is a dating site where you should be aware that you’re going to get hit on by married people. I will neither confirm nor deny that I have made profiles on OKCupid and Bumble in the past, but let’s just say that if I did, and were to do it again, I’d handle it differently. 

 

So I sent an email to my wife informing her that this was happening and to expect some weird credit card charges (because she refuses to actually talk to me about this stuff anymore.) Then I set up my profile and had at it. 

 

And here’s what I learned...

 

Rules of the game (for straight people):

 

Only men pay: And it’s not a subscription service either. Sending a message to someone costs 8 credits. Credits cost anywhere from $0.25 - $0.50 US depending on how many you buy at once. There’s a bulk discount, but you have to buy at least 100. 

 

Once you’ve sent a message, you don’t need to spend any more credits to continue the conversation with that person. 

 

Accepting a ‘collect’ message from someone costs five credits. Messaging them back costs an additional 8 credits though (which sucks). I don’t know if women can straight up message men they like and have it not cost the men anything. I’m guessing no. 

 

You do get to see who likes you: sites like OKCupid and Bumble make you pay a monthly subscription to see who swiped right on you (swipe right = good). Those sites do let you see for free who ‘matched’ you (both swiped right). And you get to communicate with that person for free. AM lets you see everyone who likes you (they call it a ‘wink’), but men have to spend credits to communicate. 

 

Out of credits, you’re done: if you go to zero credits you can’t message anyone new and you can’t continue conversations you were having. This really pisses people off in reviews of the site. 

 

So. Many. Fake. Profiles: This is still AM’s big problem. Because it’s free for anyone claiming to be a woman interested in men, because the perception is that it’s all men cheating on their wives, and because it’s not uncommon for people on AM to be afraid to post a picture or a detailed profile, it’s fertile ground for spammers, phishers, and maybe potential blackmailers. 

 

When you’re ‘new’ on the site (first two weeks or so),  you will get *hundreds* of winks, profile views, pictures, ‘favorites’ and ‘gifts’ from (allegedly) women in their 20s and 30s from all over North America. I’m apparently REALLY popular among twentysomethings in Brooklyn NY. They just can’t stop sending me sexy pictures of themselves 🙄. Those *should* be easy to detect as fake. If you think, ‘wow, she’s really hot and maybe I should take a chance’ then you’re beyond help. 

 

A little more insidious are the fakes that show up in your search profile - in the age and location you’re looking for, maybe they have a profile and a picture...but you message them and they immediately send a generic message asking for your phone number or email. They’re a phishing scam. 

 

Good news is that AM seems to be doing a decent job of handling these. Fakes don’t seem to last long. In some online articles, reporters who go on AM to ask questions have their accounts shut down quickly. You can also see it happen in real time: you might see an email notification where someone winked at you and by the time you check it out on the app, the profile is taken down.

 

Importantly, if you message someone who turns out to be fake, then you get a refund on your credits. You might see that if you accept a collect message (5 credits) of someone who turns out to be fake, you get a refund of 8 credits for a net of three credits. Don’t think you’re being clever by thinking you’re going to get lots of free credits by doing this, though. 

 

Women are swamped: Women run things on AM. So many men, so few women. Accept this. And even though they have dozens-hundreds of men to choose from, how many do they need to talk to? Maybe 3-5? Maybe they’ll develop a relationship with 1-2? You may get nowhere just due to random chance that has nothing to do with you. At least that’s what I tell myself. 

 

In light of all the fake profiles described above, how do you know that you’ve contacted an actual woman? You never hear anything back. 

 

Few women actually look at your profile: Looking at a profile is like a wink or favorite - men get notified of that. So I imagine actual women avoid that unless they’re actually talking with the guy. 

 

Tips: 

I am not going to tell you what to say in your profile or how to write a good message. I have literally no idea. I don’t even know whether it’s best to be honest (I am) or even respectful (I *definitely* am). 

 

That’s because in a month, I’ve received one message from one actual woman. I followed up on one of my messages to her and she was nice enough to reply, telling me she wasn’t interested and that she wished me luck. I thanked her and wished her the best.

 

And I’ve been blocked like 6 times despite (or maybe because of) all that honesty and respect. You don’t get a refund for that. 

 

But I have other tips: 

Most importantly, be in a good space mentally when you start this. Don’t be angry or depressed. You’re going to be rejected if you’re a jerk and ignored if you’re not. It’s not going to feel good and if you don’t have any emotional slack, it could be painful. 

 

Set your search profile (they call it Discover) to ‘New’ profiles only and leave it there. Don’t ever message someone who doesn’t come up as ‘New’. If you’re the 392nd guy who messaged her, you have no chance. 

 

Wink first: Your mileage may vary on this. Send a wink and if she winks back, then send a message. Of course for me what has followed that most of the time is nothing whatsoever. 

 

A little more promising: You send a wink, she winks back, you message, she looks at your profile...then you follow up and she nicely says she’s not interested. That’s happened the once. 

 

Alternatively, you can send messages to everyone you find interesting and spend several hundred dollars in short order. That’s not a viable strategy for most of us. 

 

Only message women with profiles: There’s a better chance that they’re real. Some women are understandably reluctant to post pictures. Though there is a feature that allows you to blur or hide your pictures and show them to people you want. 

 

Don’t request pictures too early: There’s a feature that allows you to ask to see hidden or blurred pictures, but it might come off as obnoxious until you’ve at least conversed a bit. Better to have her give them to you. 

 

Report fake profiles: You’ll get pretty good at detecting fake profiles after a while and should avoid them. If you get fooled, report it immediately. There’s a function to do that. 

 

Criticisms:

Strip Club Vibe: What every other dating site calls a ‘like’, AM calls a ‘wink’. Showing your unblurred pictures to someone is called a ‘Private Showcase’. I mean, yeah, everyone is there looking for someone to have sex with, but there’s no reason to set up such a creepy vibe. Maybe less strip club, more fern bar. 

 

Putting words in your mouth: When you send a wink, the person you send it to doesn’t just get a generic notification (e.g. Hey! SCPDX liked you! Check his profile!). Instead it takes the form of a message (from women: “I get a lot of winks, please send me a personal message;” from men, it’s something like, “Please post a picture to your profile,” whether this is something you want to say or not. Sometimes, men get a message like, “so-and-so is new, send her a compliment.” I didn’t know whether that was a wink or not. 

 

General Jankiness: There are a lot of features and products that are described on the site but don’t seem to exist anymore. Also, nothing is defined (is it true that only two women viewed my profile over the last two weeks?) When I get a notification that someone ‘chose’ me, what does that mean? 

 

That’s what I’ve got to date. Feel free to share different (or similar) experiences, ask questions, or commiserate. 

[Philip027]

As a total spectator to this sort of thing, it seems to me like a rather efficient way to scam hapless dudes out of their money.

[anisotrophic]

@SCPDX you have a bit of compare/contrast with other sites like okcupid, I'm curious -- do you have any more on that? eg appropriateness of given sites for certain types of "looking"? (Singles folks vs NSA open vs poly vs discreet / LGBTQIA friendliness / etc.)

 

I briefly made a free account on adultfriendfinder out of curiosity but was immediately unhappy to see that there was a single "trans" category and it "trans women". 😕 I listed as female, and found the responses off-putting, and the site was horrible to use, but one takeaway was for me was that I need to put more effort in my profile to help men self-select & ask them to take it slow (if I don't want immediate sexting) -- to filter out men I'm not going to be a good match for. Another was that I should probably just suck it up and pay to get a better experience (it's expensive but I hope that acts like a no-bs filter?).

 

I don't feel any need to do it now, but that's because my relationship has been pretty good once I became ok with asking for & receiving charity sex. But things may evolve, so I think about it. (Of course my gender might continue to change too, which I'm aware is going to complicate the whole thing, oh well.)

[SCPDX]

1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

As a total spectator to this sort of thing, it seems to me like a rather efficient way to scam hapless dudes out of their money.

Well of course it is. I mean, who else are you going to scam but the hapless? 

[SCPDX]

29 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

@SCPDX you have a bit of compare/contrast with other sites like okcupid, I'm curious -- do you have any more on that? eg appropriateness of given sites for certain types of "looking"? (Singles folks vs NSA open vs poly vs discreet / LGBTQIA friendliness / etc.)

AM is very non-binary. You describe yourself by gender and what gender you’re seeking and single/attached. Additional descriptors (including cis/trans status) are left to the profile and not searchable. My understanding is that it’s appropriate to ask/look for ANYTHING on AM. 

 

OKC does allow you to be a lot more descriptive about yourself and have that be searchable. Asexual is a searchable descriptor. So are Demi- and pansexual. I think trans is too. If you’re in an open marriage, I think you might be *necessarily* considered polyamorous on OKC.  I might be remembering that wrong, though. 

 

Bumble looks a lot like AM in this regard. If you’re married, that’s not searchable. It’s got to go in your profile. I had my best results meeting women on Bumble until they read my profile. 

 

54 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I briefly made a free account on adultfriendfinder out of curiosity but was immediately unhappy to see that there was a single "trans" category and it "trans women". 😕 I listed as female, and found the responses off-putting, and the site was horrible to use, but one takeaway was for me was that I need to put more effort in my profile to help men self-select & ask them to take it slow (if I don't want immediate sexting) -- to filter out men I'm not going to be a good match for. Another was that I should probably just suck it up and pay to get a better experience (it's expensive but I hope that acts like a no-bs filter?).

I’m not familiar with adultfriendfinder, but if you want to put yourself out as a woman seeking men again, Bumble and OKC flat out put women in control. In OKC, men can message, but it won’t be seen by the woman until there’s a match - i.e. she ‘likes’ him. Bumble goes one step further. If there’s a match, then the woman is required to send the first message within 24 hours. The man is blocked from sending any messages until she sends the first message. 

 

And you can meet people rather efficiently  on OKC and Bumble without spending money. That said, to do that as a middle aged married guy, you have to swipe right on a lot of women who are creeped out about being hit on by married guys. 

 

I don’t know how this works for same sex relationships or transgender people. 

 

Yeah, I won’t be doing immediate sexting. Hoping that is appreciated. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, SCPDX said:

In OKC, men can message, but it won’t be seen by the woman until there’s a match - i.e. she ‘likes’ him. Bumble goes one step further. If there’s a match, then the woman is required to send the first message within 24 hours. The man is blocked from sending any messages until she sends the first message. 

Huh? That was not my experience with OKCupid. I had a profile on there when I tried dating and men messaged me all the time and I saw it without liking any of them. I got a range of messages from "hi" (generic) to the hookup requests, only one guy seemed worth my time enough (out of maybe 20-30 that messaged me... all of which I saw, none of which I ever liked the profiles of) and I went out on a couple dates with him but ultimately decided to give up the dating thing completely cause it just takes me too long to develop romantic feelings and I need to stick to friends first. 

[SCPDX]

6 minutes ago, Serran said:

Huh? That was not my experience with OKCupid. 

When were you on there? I believe the situation I described was implemented in the last two years in response to men acting really horribly towards women on there. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SCPDX said:

When were you on there? I believe the situation I described was implemented in the last two years in response to men acting really horribly towards women on there. 

Threeish years ago. A little after they added asexual / demisexual as options. 

[anisotrophic]

1 hour ago, SCPDX said:

AM is very non-binary. You describe yourself by gender and what gender you’re seeking and single/attached. Additional descriptors (including cis/trans status) are left to the profile and not searchable. 

You mean I can select my gender as "Other", or from one of an array of non-binary identities (agender, gender-fluid, neutrois...) or fill in the text, or...?

 

(I know, I could just try making an account, sorry, on my phone at the moment and swamped with other duties!)

[Traveler40]

So, having been down this road, I have one point to disagree on: The sincere women don’t care what number you are in the line of contact if it’s an outside chance of a connection.  We are looking as well!

 

Sure, women have the upper hand given the numbers, but the search for true connection isn’t as easy as a snap of the fingers.  I placed an ad numerous times and understood that:

 

1. Most men were facing fakes and scammers so I stood out without trying too hard.

2. Most men weren’t looking for connection beyond a quick hook-up.

3. Most men (on those sites) are barely literate...😬 alright, a stretch, but not by much!

4. A little courtesy goes a long way.

5. I was in the driver’s seat and was able to quickly assess a connection - whether he be #3 or #503.

 

Patience grasshopper, keep trying. Be candid, clear and sincere.  Transparency can be felt and even a connection in words may fizzle in person.  I met a few that just made me go, “hmmm, what the hell was that?!?” 😂

 

Last, and this is the most important lesson I learned:  Don’t box yourself in.  I had a list in mind of what I was after.  What I ended up with was the complete opposite.  Keep an open mind and know who YOU are, what you need and communicate that effectively.

 

Best of luck & happy fishing!  It’s draining, but is so worth it in time.

 

Edit: I was ashamed to admit this early on, but I met my lover on CL. I figured if *I* was reading those ads so frequently and with interest, it stood to reason other men of like ilk were as well.  It offered the ultimate in anonymity and was an experiment at the outset.  It turned out I was right in spades.  

 

BONUS ADVICE:  No pics without a shirt! 🤮

[SCPDX]

24 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

You mean I can select my gender as "Other", or from one of an array of non-binary identities (agender, gender-fluid, neutrois...) or fill in the text, or...?

 

(I know, I could just try making an account, sorry, on my phone at the moment and swamped with other duties!)

Sorry, no. It’s male seeking female, female seeking male, male seeking male, female seeking female and whether you’re attached or not. They’re drop-downs. You have to pick one, no “other”. VERY non binary. 

[anisotrophic]

Just now, SCPDX said:

Sorry, no. It’s male seeking female, female seeking male, male seeking male, female seeking female and whether you’re attached or not. They’re drop-downs. You have to pick one, no “other”. VERY non binary. 

Sorry, that's very binary, not very non-binary -- the word means the opposite of what you seem to be saying.

 

"Non-binary" refers to supporting gender identities that do not fall into the  two binary options of "male" or "female".

[SCPDX]

Just now, Traveler40 said:

Patience grasshopper, keep trying. Be candid, clear and sincere.  Transparency can be felt and even a connection in words may fizzle in person.  I met a few that just made me go, “hmmm, what the hell was that?!?” 😂

 

Last, and this is the most important lesson I learned:  Don’t box yourself in.  I had a list in mind of what I was after.  What I ended up with was the complete opposite.  Keep an open mind and know who YOU are, what you need and communicate that effectively.

 

Best of luck & happy fishing!  It’s draining, but is so worth it in time.

Thanks. While it is looking REALLY bleak at the moment, it does only take one. 

[SCPDX]

Just now, anisotrophic said:

Sorry, that's very binary, not very non-binary -- the word means the opposite of what you seem to be saying.

 

"Non-binary" refers to supporting gender identities that do not fall into the  two binary options of "male" or "female".

GAH! And I’m trying to be really careful about it too (I am a dad to a non-binary teen). 

[anisotrophic]

3 minutes ago, SCPDX said:

GAH! And I’m trying to be really careful about it too (I am a dad to a non-binary teen). 

It's cool. I'm nearly 40 and still struggling with my parents. 😂

 

But also, I credit the younger generation with giving me an option that finally resonated; the idea of completely switching my gender didn't feel right either. Like my partner discovering there was another orientation possibility....

[ryn2]

7 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

I met my lover on CL.

I know a fair number of people in a variety of atypical situations who had good luck there.  It’s too bad CL got out of the personals business.

[anamikanon]

Never been on AM. OKC worked reasonably well. Or I guess as well as could be expected in the circumstances.  One thing I found helpful was to fill in only questions I had strong feelings about - there are endless questions of all kinds and a high match can be suggested based on things you couldn't care less about while important things don't match.

 

I put up a fairly detailed profile and at the end of it I wrote that anyone messaging me should first say that they read my profile on top of their message. That weeds out the trash that will like anything female regardless of whether views match, etc. I also found it useful to explicitly reject specific political/social viewpoints in the profile like "if you are a fan of XYZ, don't bother" etc.

 

The absolute FLOOD of messages I got became more manageable. I also don't bother with men with generic or juvenile profiles, anyone who seems pretentious or with too ad-like photos.

 

Being a woman is something of an advantage on such sites, I think, because men far outnumber women, so most people you are interested in tend to be interested right back. I connected with several interesting men like this, even met some of them, though I haven't got into a relationship with anyone yet.

 

That said, it is time consuming and tedious and I tend to go on the site in bursts of a week or so when I am feeling particularly interested in finding someone. I'll go through a few dozen profiles, start a dozen or so conversations, maybe progress a few of them to email or WhatsApp and abandon OKC again. I cannot stand this on a regular basis and by day 3 or 4 I am fairly irritated. But it does serve to find interesting people.

 

I suspect men may not be able to do this hit-and-run thing given the sex ratio out there and may need to be generally more available to respond faster if they hope for a match.

[Philip027]

On 3/31/2019 at 8:07 PM, anisotrophic said:

Another was that I should probably just suck it up and pay to get a better experience (it's expensive but I hope that acts like a no-bs filter?).

As someone who plays a couple subscription MMORPGs and once thought the same way as you... trust me, fees don't act as a BS filter.  If anything it can help draw out the preening, entitled, insufferable types even further.