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uhtred

Understanding sexual frustration

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Traveler40
2 hours ago, SCPDX said:

Something like what you described there? That could well get me to a level of anger I’ve never experienced. I don’t know how I would react. 

It wasn’t pretty, and the feelings about it never really fade.  There’s not much to say - he was deeply pissed and that’s how I found out.  He’s apologized, but it doesn’t really fix anything.  

 

We are sexually mismatched and that’s never going to change. So instead, we adapt and try to both accept and understand each other.  It’s the best we can do with where we are at.  It’s not ideal, but works for the benefit of our family unit.

 

Edit: My reaction was deep shame.  I froze and couldn’t believe that happened.  I did not get angry, instead I cried.

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ryn2
4 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

he was deeply pissed and that’s how I found out.

It’s too bad he couldn’t have just said that.

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anisotrophic

It's horrible. Horrifying. I can't imagine not having a relationship permanently soured by an event like that. :(

I really don't like an audience unless I ask for it (e.g. ask him if he'll hold me), but he's been good-natured and I can joke about it -- I might say, "I think I'd like to take a "shower"...", with airquotes.

 

I used to be upset at the reverse, him masturbating instead of having sex with me made me feel inadequate and rejected. Different situation though... when I'm solo, it's because I don't want to bother him, I'd be happy to give him my attention and he knows that...

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uhtred
On 3/26/2019 at 11:55 AM, Traveler40 said:

Masturbation is a huge part of my life and is the only sex my current room and mattress has ever seen.  I never really bothered to conceal or hide my activities until one night when my husband came into the room (not uncommon to walk through to the master bath) and decided to rip the covers off of me to embarrass and shame me.  I’ve never been the same around him again with regard to the subject.

 

He seems fine discussing sex, knows I engage in sexual activity and is overall open.  However, after that night, it all changed for me.  He had explained that the pressure, combined with feeling displaced and lacking, got the best of him.  However, his reaction killed off my desire to be open and candid about my needs.

 

I covertly masturbate around him now. He knows it must be happening, but the free flow, “no need to hide it from him” feeling has fled. Mainly, I try to take care of business when he’s not home which is not always possible. 

 

Anyhow, while not complicated to discuss, it’s definitely complicated!

 

Edit: That all made sense in my head in relation to the topic at hand - “does she / doesn’t she masturbate”, and “is it difficult to talk about”....In retrospect, it doesn’t read as connected as it felt to me while typing it 😬.  Yeah, some days the elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top! Just sayin’

That was really awful of him. Its one thing to not want sex, but to try to shame the person you live because they do, is just wrong. 

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uhtred
On 3/26/2019 at 5:54 PM, Serran said:

I've never wanted to masturbate before my current partner awakened my libido. I used to be rather masturbation repulsed when seeing others doing it (especially male) cause of past trauma ... so always preferred partners do it privately. Though, I lack that repulsion reaction with my spouse. Its weird. And I do it occasionally myself now.

 

But... also... toys can be moved for lots of reasons. Maybe she regularly washes them because they are used on her sometimes and doesn't want to risk bacteria building up and risking a UTI? Maybe she has other things in the space that she needed and they were in the way? 

Its possible of course, but not what I'd guess.  Its not really important - she is free to masturbate or not as she wishes. I wish if she just wanted to get off, she would ask me to help (no reciprocation required - as I've let her know) but its OK if that doesn't work for her.

 

 

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uhtred
16 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

It wasn’t pretty, and the feelings about it never really fade.  There’s not much to say - he was deeply pissed and that’s how I found out.  He’s apologized, but it doesn’t really fix anything.  

 

We are sexually mismatched and that’s never going to change. So instead, we adapt and try to both accept and understand each other.  It’s the best we can do with where we are at.  It’s not ideal, but works for the benefit of our family unit.

 

Edit: My reaction was deep shame.  I froze and couldn’t believe that happened.  I did not get angry, instead I cried.

Why was he angry?   

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ryn2
28 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I wish if she just wanted to get off, she would ask me to help (no reciprocation required - as I've let her know)

The sticking point here for at least some ace folks isn’t the looming threat of reciprocation (with which they may even be completely fine); it’s the flip side of how - for sexual people - masturbation is not the same as partnered sex.  If you(‘re ace and you) want to masturbate, involving a second person “ruins it.”  It’s not masturbation anymore, it’s partnered sex.

 

I guess the closest comparable example (which works best if you are not bi/poly, but I suppose extending it to anyone to whom you are not sexually attracted might do) would be having someone of the “wrong” gender (same gender if you’re straight; opposite gender if you’re gay) do it for you.  You might ultimately still get off but you’ll be distracted and perhaps a bit repulsed/put off.  Overall it’s probably not going to be the best experience.

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uhtred
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

The sticking point here for at least some ace folks isn’t the looming threat of reciprocation (with which they may even be completely fine); it’s the flip side of how - for sexual people - masturbation is not the same as partnered sex.  If you(‘re ace and you) want to masturbate, involving a second person “ruins it.”  It’s not masturbation anymore, it’s partnered sex.

 

I guess the closest comparable example (which works best if you are not bi/poly, but I suppose extending it to anyone to whom you are not sexually attracted might do) would be having someone of the “wrong” gender (same gender if you’re straight; opposite gender if you’re gay) do it for you.  You might ultimately still get off but you’ll be distracted and perhaps a bit repulsed/put off.  Overall it’s probably not going to be the best experience.

I do understand all that.   With someone like my wife who *sometimes* (but rarely) wants sex, but actually wants it then, its really confusing. 

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ryn2
15 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I do understand all that.   With someone like my wife who *sometimes* (but rarely) wants sex, but actually wants it then, its really confusing. 

Makes sense.  All you can really do at that point is assume that she will let you know on the rare occasion she’s okay with it (and that she is not okay with it any time she hasn’t let you know).

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Traveler40
22 hours ago, uhtred said:

Why was he angry?   

My need for intimacy and sex has changed his life, our lives.  Sex is a massive problem, and my need for it has altered his life over the last 2 years in ways he resents.  I accepted his way (celibacy) for so long.  He was happy in that space and has struggled with our decisions and their effects at times. He feels threatened by all of it.

 

While I seek to understand him, me and us, he does not.  His head remaining in the sand is perfectly ok with him.  He simply wants things to revert back to how they were before my awakening: Me seemingly ok with zero touch of any kind and doing life with him alone.

 

Edit: To be clear, we communicated a lot and, I thought, very well “before”.  I’ve only realized in time that he never really took me seriously.  He had what he wanted in the way he wanted it at the time. Feigning attempts at understanding was short lived penance and a means to an end: Our sexless union.  *I* flipped the script. 

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anisotrophic
3 hours ago, ryn2 said:

having someone of the “wrong” gender (same gender if you’re straight; opposite gender if you’re gay) do it for you

When I've thought about this analogy (which is a good one) I often wonder about "indifferent vs. repulsed" and whether that gets into confusing bicurious/heteroflexible/homoflexible zones, where I think someone might be trying to articulate "I'm indifferent-to/curious-about/maybe-OK-with sex with [gender 1], but I'm generally and genuinely attracted to [gender 2]"?

Just like limitations with sexuality vs. romance, the gas/brakes model isn't entirely captured by standard orientation vocabulary (which things have gas? which have brakes?), but we need a small set of words to simplify things down to a functional consequence: communicating in a way that sets expectations for others.

I still like the analogy though. It helps explain why someone would prefer masturbation over partnered sex -- since it's reasonable to expect someone would prefer masturbation over partnered sex with the "wrong" gender.

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ryn2

Agreed, it’s not as simple as it could initially sound.  It’s probably more accurate to compare masturbation against partnered sex with someone you (the universal you) don’t find sexually attractive, but that’s broad enough that people seem to have trouble envisioning it.

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anisotrophic
17 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

While I seek to understand him, me and us, he does not.  His head in the sand is perfectly ok with him.  He simply wants things to revert back to how they were before my awakening: Me seemingly ok with zero touch of any kind and doing life with him alone.

:)  I'm glad you prioritized yourself!

It takes two to communicate. The best we can do is try to keep up our own end. It's deeply frustrating to go around in loops where you think something gets through but it doesn't (and I'm reminded of domestic disputes in our own union unrelated to sex, hah... marriage is a process....).

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ryn2
46 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

My need for intimacy and sex has changed his life, our lives.  Sex is a massive problem, and my need for it has altered his life over the last 2 years in ways he resents.  I accepted his way (celibacy) for so long.  He was happy in that space.  He has struggled with our decisions and their effects at times. He feels threatened by all of it.

Plenty of perfectly valid and understandable reasons to be upset, angry, etc., on both sides...

 

...but the approach he took to venting that seems bizarre.  Your masturbation has little to do with the issue, and verbally attacking/embarrassing you over it seems like it can’t accomplish anything useful for him (let alone you, obv.!).

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uhtred
2 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

My need for intimacy and sex has changed his life, our lives.  Sex is a massive problem, and my need for it has altered his life over the last 2 years in ways he resents.  I accepted his way (celibacy) for so long.  He was happy in that space.  He has struggled with our decisions and their effects at times. He feels threatened by all of it.

 

While I seek to understand him, me and us, he does not.  His head remaining in the sand is perfectly ok with him.  He simply wants things to revert back to how they were before my awakening: Me seemingly ok with zero touch of any kind and doing life with him alone.

 

Edit: To be clear, we communicated a lot and, I thought, very well “before”.  I’ve only realized in time that he never really took me seriously.  He had what he wanted in the way he wanted it at the time. Feigning attempts at understanding was short lived penance and a means to an end: Our sexless union.  *I* flipped the script. 

I think he is clearly in the wrong in this part.  He can't change whether or not *he* wants sex, but it is unreasonable for him to expect you to not even masturbate.  Maybe I'm sensitive to it but it feels like Sl... shaming, which I find deeply offensive. I'd be tempted to tell him that you are unwilling to live your live without sex.  It can be with him, by yourself or with someone else, but its not going away. 

 

 

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Serran
9 hours ago, uhtred said:

I do understand all that.   With someone like my wife who *sometimes* (but rarely) wants sex, but actually wants it then, its really confusing. 

I have had it explained as sometimes you want to get off and sometimes you want to be desired. If she just wants to get off, you being involved will be slower and more involved and just generally make it more complicated. If she wants to be desired or serviced, she can ask you. 

 

But, I get the frustration. My wife kept telling me no and then spending time with porn and it was a no-go for me. I pretty much felt like just saying take me out of the equation then if I am second or third choice when you have your libido spark. Especially when it happened over our honeymoon and one month married marks... 

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Traveler40
15 hours ago, uhtred said:

I think he is clearly in the wrong in this part.  He can't change whether or not *he* wants sex, but it is unreasonable for him to expect you to not even masturbate.  Maybe I'm sensitive to it but it feels like Sl... shaming, which I find deeply offensive. I'd be tempted to tell him that you are unwilling to live your live without sex.  It can be with him, by yourself or with someone else, but its not going away. 

Agreed, I did and I have.  Putting my foot down and finding solutions (which includes sex without him and is the definition of me flipping the script) is what he can resent at times.  

 

Climbing out of the hole of sexless hell without A-bombing an otherwise good partnership and wonderful union for our two young kids was a long process that, while healing to me, can be upsetting to him.  Ultimately he wants our lives entwined forever, but the emotional expense of my sex drive can be draining on him. He generally accepts it, yet also resents it now and again.

 

If a wand could be waved, his preference would be to turn back time and have me ignore needs as I had for many years.  

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ryn2
10 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

If a wand could be waved, his preference would be to turn back time and have me ignore needs as I had for many years.  

Well, that makes sense... especially if he didn’t really know you were suffering because of it.  Conversely, you’d probably love to wave a wand to turn back time and not have to ignore your own needs...

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uhtred
11 hours ago, Serran said:

I have had it explained as sometimes you want to get off and sometimes you want to be desired. If she just wants to get off, you being involved will be slower and more involved and just generally make it more complicated. If she wants to be desired or serviced, she can ask you. 

 

But, I get the frustration. My wife kept telling me no and then spending time with porn and it was a no-go for me. I pretty much felt like just saying take me out of the equation then if I am second or third choice when you have your libido spark. Especially when it happened over our honeymoon and one month married marks... 

This is were its so difficult.  For a sexual person sex is usually closely tied to feelings of love and romance.  To an asexual person who occasionally wants sexual release, its just like scratching an itch. The sexual person can feel betrayed by the asxexual seeing release some other way. 

 

I still sort of feel that in a romantic relationship, masturbation is only OK if you are not constantly rejecting your partner - but I really do also understand the other side. 

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ryn2
1 hour ago, uhtred said:

To an asexual person who occasionally wants sexual release, its just like scratching an itch.

Not necessarily.  Some ace people have extensive fantasies and actually enjoy self-pleasuring (beyond the utilitarian “need release, okay better now” sense).  They just don’t find partnered sex to be equivalent/better.

 

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

I still sort of feel that in a romantic relationship, masturbation is only OK if you are not constantly rejecting your partner

If the ace partner is forbidding the sexual partner to masturbate, than the reverse is only fair.

 

Saying the ace partner should only masturbate if they’re also consenting to partnered sex seems punitive.  Why would partnered sex be needed as “permission” to masturbate?

 

I feel like some of this stems from the same “an orgasm is an orgasm; why does it matter how you get it?” misunderstanding that bugs some of the sexual posters.

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Serran
5 hours ago, uhtred said:

This is were its so difficult.  For a sexual person sex is usually closely tied to feelings of love and romance.  To an asexual person who occasionally wants sexual release, its just like scratching an itch. The sexual person can feel betrayed by the asxexual seeing release some other way. 

 

I still sort of feel that in a romantic relationship, masturbation is only OK if you are not constantly rejecting your partner - but I really do also understand the other side. 

Heh, my partner wants it for the emotional aspect too. Which makes it more confusing for me. I offered to stop sexual things together once and she said it would not make her happy cause Im the first person shes wanted that with and didnt want to lose it. 

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helana12_03

Some of us do. But I feel like it's more difficult for us to understand because most of us don't experience sexual frustration. I kind of always knew that sexual frustration existed but I didn't fully get it. At some point I had long conversations with some of my sexual friends about this and it really helped me understand it better. 

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

I sympathise with anyone who's frustrated, sexually or otherwise, but I don't understand sexual frustration and I sure don't think that it gives anyone the right to hurt another, as some of the previous posts have detailed.

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Traveler40
3 hours ago, chandrakirti said:

I don't understand sexual frustration

That’s really the basis for the merry-go-round on AVEN (in this sub-forum at least) and in mixed relationships in general. As

well, it’s the primary issue in the empathy argument: Lack of understanding should

at least include an attempt to understand the human experience for others who may be different than one self especially if in a relationship with them.

 

3 hours ago, chandrakirti said:

I sure don't think that it gives anyone the right to hurt another,

An asexual partner choosing to do nothing can be as hurtful (or more depending on perspective) than a sexual partner choosing to do something.  Who’s to judge who’s “right”?  All are accountable within the confounds of a relationship I would expect.

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ryn2

Outside AVEN I’ve pretty much only heard the specific term “sexual frustration” used as a less crass way to say “blue balls” (or, less commonly, its female equivalent), where the speaker has not ejaculated (or, again, the female equivalent) in too long.

 

That’s not to in any way imply there aren’t, for many people, social and emotional (and perhaps even physical) consequences to not having a sexually intimate partnership.  It’s just not how the phrase is used where I live.

 

I normally hear (admittedly vague) things more along the lines of “even though we’re together, I feel so lonely/alone/neglected” in reference to the broader issue of relationships lacking sexual connection.

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa
32 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

That’s really the basis for the merry-go-round on AVEN (in this sub-forum at least) and in mixed relationships in general. As

well, it’s the primary issue in the empathy argument: Lack of understanding should

at least include an attempt to understand the human experience for others who may be different than one self especially if in a relationship with them.

 

An asexual partner choosing to do nothing can be as hurtful (or more depending on perspective) than a sexual partner choosing to do something.  Who’s to judge who’s “right”?  All are accountable within the confounds of a relationship I would expect.

Yes, these circular arguments are getting us nowhere and aren't productive at all.

Why do they keep rolling on? 

We're different in some respects. That shouldn't need much more discussion than has been continually on aven for the last 19 years... How about we find common ground instead.

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Traveler40
25 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

“sexual frustration” 

Agreed generally outside of AVEN.  The phrase itself carries an infinitely milder connotation than many sexuals who are denied essential needs feel.  Assuredly, it’s way beyond a simple frustration, at least for me.  

 

Oversimplification is generally problematic, but the thrust is understood here in context. 

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Traveler40
15 minutes ago, chandrakirti said:

How about we find common ground instead.

Recently, I read someone here lament how they really dislike the current state of this sub-forum as it’s too negative essentially.  That turned me off so significantly that I walked away from AVEN for a few days.  Finding common ground is a good aspiration, as is looking at the bright side of mixed relationships I suppose.

 

Additionally though, there are folks here (new, somewhat new and evolving in time and thought) that are here to work through their issues.  I think that’s part of the purpose of this place. 🤷🏻‍♀️  It’s not easy when living a catch-22.  I continue to seek answers for that which appears to have no palatable solution.

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Yes @Traveler40 it is a negative topic so it tends to have a list of all the problems with no light at the end of the tunnel, it seems to be a preoccupation..

In the scheme of things though, it could be a much smaller proportion of the relationship than it appears at first glance, but when it's the only topic of conversation here it's suddenly 100%.

 

I don't have suggestions or solutions, but I suspect that full immersion in one problem just serves to magnify.

 

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ryn2
15 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

The phrase itself carries an infinitely milder connotation than many sexuals who are denied essential needs feel.

I think that it’s just not used that way (here).  When someone (usually a guy, but not always) says they’re “sexually frustrated” they’re typically referring to a “dry spell” between encounters -  outside of a committed relationship - and it’s part of a conversation about finding a way to get laid/how someone feels after being at a strip club or in the presence of a hot girl who shut them down.  It’s very centered on a quick fix for a primarily physical need.

 

I.e., it’s used (here) to talk about being starved for release, not being starved for sexual intimacy with emotional intimacy.

 

I don’t know what term might be used for what you’re describing, as it’s not something I hear talked about here (beyond the gender stereotype commiseration of “my husband was complaining about not getting any so I got him to do all the chores” stuff that people fall back on as a “female bonding” thing... which I don’t thing is any more genuine than the pack of guys all going on about the new blonde at the front desk with the big boobs).

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