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RE: ( And the idea of an AVEN ambassador to ASM.)

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G0D

Before I begin... More scope has been added to this thread. A few posts down HERE to be precise there (in the purple writing )is the start of the thread that talks about the idea of adding  an ASM ambassador to AVEN and vice versa. 

 

Over on the dark side there is a category called "RE", no, before you start assuming it's "REEEEEEEEE", no, "REEEEEEEE" is very funny. but I am actually being all serious. 

 

It is a place where ASM members can comment on things going on anywhere else on the internet, like Redit, News sites, Youtube, and this place. It get's a fair bit of use commenting AVEN  happenings, and being able to discuss things in an. eerrrrr... I want to say "Less formal", but it's not quite right, may be "Less guarded" way.

 

Any way of late things have gotten way more fun, and there are some threads that I think would be great in reverse. I have one in mind, but I really don't want to just start bleating out links and seem like I am asking a question in order to actually shamelessly promote something. I genuinely do think that people from AVEN actually might want to stay ON AVEN, and comment on something that is happening on the dark side.

 

Anyone any idea where that should go?

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nameinagame

Surely most of the people looking to debate the threads of ASM are people who have accounts on ASM already? And don't most ASM members also have AVEN accounts? So I'm not sure I really see the benefit of trying to draw people from ASM to AVEN to talk about stuff on ASM. But if you can think of any reason at all, try Just For Fun because of the informal and light-hearted nature of it.

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iff

What is being discussed? If posted on aven, is it discussing the topic or discussing another forum's discussion of the topic?

 

If it is the topic itself, then maybe post on aven the topic but not link or refer to another forum's discussion.

 

Why does another forum need to be linked to for the discussion, other than advertising.  Doing it a bit might be spamming.

 

[This is my personal opinion]

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G0D
On 3/22/2019 at 2:45 PM, nameinagame said:

Surely most of the people looking to debate the threads of ASM are people who have accounts on ASM already? And don't most ASM members also have AVEN accounts? So I'm not sure I really see the benefit of trying to draw people from ASM to AVEN to talk about stuff on ASM. But if you can think of any reason at all, try Just For Fun because of the informal and light-hearted nature of it.

I think that you might have me all wrong here, it's not about a drive to get members, far from it, it's a way to acknowledge that some people are more comfortable with the AVEN ToS, than with the open attitude on ASM. Those on ASM who discuss AVEN threads might do so because they like the freedom to say pretty much anything they like (apart from openly insulting an AVEN member) they also are just as likely not to have an account here, for any number of reasons. I would say that there are actually a minority of active ASM members that have AVEN accounts. And I KNOW there are a great many AVEN members who are just happy and fine with only having an AVEN account. and I am just cool with that.

 

There are times though, when a debate happens, or subject comes up, where I actually think AVEN would have more to say about it, than most of ASM would, I was just trying to ask where would be most appropriate to say "Hey AVEN what do you think of this"...

 

I would like to add something to this threads scope, and I will amend the title of the thread.

 

I have talked to some AVEN mods about this idea, and to be honest the hardest part isn't getting them to say if it is a good idea or not, it is more that something gets in their way of seeing the point. Which is utterly bizzare as the reason AVEN said it wouldn't like to AS-NS was that there wasn't enough communication between the sites. This has always baffled me, because I don't see AVEN communicating with any other sites, ones it lists or not. Its still very odd, that just about everyone on here knows about ASM, there are more banners in signatures for ASM than anywhere else, and it's not like the place is new. but they still won't put a link to it and acknowledge it even exists.

 

Any way.... I digress.... I had thought of a solution to many issues, including the communication issue, and I think I have come up with something that is rational, reasonable, and fair for everyone, and would reduce the drama factor, and show there is good will on all sides.

 

ASM and AVEN open embassy accounts. These account login details are given to the representatives of each site. The accounts are not accounts where the ambassadors use all the time, or use for personal reasons. 

 

So you chaps would get a user called something like "ASM on AVEN", or "ASM Ambasidor", and perhaps even and AMA thread for the use of AVEN users. That way if anything happened that AVEN users would like to bring attention to, or issues where they think the other site has done something wrong, they can publicly if they like bring it to the attention of the ambassador, and they can get a response, and I would hope resolve any problems without the need to get AVEN moderators involved.

 

The very same setup can exist for AVEN, they can have an ambassador on ASM, who knows maybe this can be extended to other asexual web sites, so we can all actually work together, and find things we agree on, that would make the asexual community stronger, happier, and healthier.  

 

It's just a proposal, and it's here for discussion. I would love to see what other people think about this... 

 

 

 

(( The colour change is here so that I can more easily link to it elsewhere.))

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G0D
On 3/22/2019 at 7:15 PM, iff said:

What is being discussed? If posted on aven, is it discussing the topic or discussing another forum's discussion of the topic?

 

If it is the topic itself, then maybe post on aven the topic but not link or refer to another forum's discussion.

 

Why does another forum need to be linked to for the discussion, other than advertising.  Doing it a bit might be spamming.

 

[This is my personal opinion]

If people want to discuss either the discussion, or reference other participants remarks to comment on them.  Threads about threads IS a thing on the internet, well it is on ASM any way.. Maybe we are just Tooooo Meta for some <grin> ...

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Sally

I would think that people on AVEN (not "AVEN", since that's a misnomer) who would like to scope out what you call the "dark" side could and would already do so.   Just as people on that site would come to AVEN.  Anyone on the internet is free to go anywhere else on the internet.  

 

So what is your point?  

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G0D

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sally said:

I would think that people on AVEN (not "AVEN", since that's a misnomer) who would like to scope out what you call the "dark" side could and would already do so.   Just as people on that site would come to AVEN.  Anyone on the internet is free to go anywhere else on the internet.  

 

So what is your point?  

 

I am a little lost here with this question

 

I know when I see a reply from you there is usually a backhanded insult in there somewhere, but this time I am a little lost.

 

Are you really taking issue with me describing the policy of a site being described as "AVEN'a policy", rather than "the policy that was decided on by a group of people in a position of authority on the web site https://www.asexuality.org/en/ that has been published for all to see, and is policed by another group of people".

 

Have you not understood the other replies I have made that clarify that there could be conversations hosted and displayed on the website  https://forum.asexual.me that people who have signed up as members at the website https://www.asexuality.org/en/ may like to comment on while not becoming member. You know, like when people comment on news articles, or YouTube videos.. 

 

Lets say for example the very case that led me to ask this question in the first place.... A few days ago we had a thread kick off, sorry, I mean, somebody one the web sits https://forum.asexual.me by means of tools hosted on the site started a "Thread", a sort of topic where the other members of the sane aforementioned  web site might reply,, and such replies would be visible by all, this is something commonly known as a "Forum". 

 

In this particular case the topic was titled "Why do people hate smart women"? This topic alone was seen as been unusual to a good many visitors of the web site https://forum.asexual.me for many reasons, and would be something that most of the people who regularly use their "Web Browser"  to access the web sites https://forum.asexual.me and https://www.asexuality.org/en might have expected to be an opinion offered for the discussion on the web site https://www.asexuality.org/en .

 

The full "conversation" can be viewed by using a pointing device in order to "click", or "tap" upon the following universal resource locator underlined https://forum.asexual.me/index.php?/topic/478-why-do-people-hate-smart-women/ . 

 

While anyone using the internet could have access the the service using the hyper text transfer protocol service, and then theoretically come upon the particular conversation by chance, it would he easier to ask for their attention, especially if they wished to discuss the issues raised on the conversation. 

 

Again it has nothing to do with wanting people to use one site or another, or to favour one over another, or to some how join the conversations. The topic, and the way it has been discussed is in my opinion as interesting as the premise in, and of it's self. 

 

 

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Evil
54 minutes ago, Chione said:

Have you asked the admin on that website your thoughts on this? Because your asking for ambassadors for a website in which the admin is happy to insult this forum AND insult autistic people.

Where are the alleged insults in this?

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Timeless
1 hour ago, Evil said:

Where are the alleged insults in this?

Literally in the post I linked to.

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Evil
9 minutes ago, Chione said:

Literally in the post I linked to.

Which I read. Where are the insults?

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Sally

"and simply posting a screen shot of the rules at people seems so fucking autistic" 

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LeChat
7 minutes ago, Sally said:

"and simply posting a screen shot of the rules at people seems so fucking autistic" 

Yeah. That whole comparing rules to autism doesn't sound nice. That reminded of the phrase others used to say, "That's so gay." Also, the phrase "Trans activist mob." Using "mob" doesn't give the impression that a person respects trans people, activists, etc.

 

People have mentioned why they had to leave AVEN: due to taking college courses and wanting to focus on that, a new job, moving, etc.

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Skycaptain

Everyone, site comments is for commenting about issues on AVEN, not other forums. Can you please keep to discussing AVEN matters here, and open threads somewhere else if you want to talk about other sites. Skycaptain acting moderator Site comments 

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Evil

I wouldn't call that an insult. Not even close.

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G0D
8 hours ago, Chione said:

Have you asked the admin on that website your thoughts on this? Because your asking for ambassadors for a website in which the admin is happy to insult this forum AND insult autistic people.

 

https://forum.asexual.me/index.php?/topic/504-is-aven-dying-and-is-it-suicide/

Here's the thing... ASM is not AVEN..

 

AVEN is a safe space. it is setup, and run as a place where there are strict rules, that are aggressively enforced, and for a lot of people it is just perfect,. It offers a place where a certain group of people feel comfortable, and they appreciate the  way that they are treated, and they appreciate that certain  things are not allowed, and this suites them perfectly.

 

ASM is not a safe space. It's a place where people can pretty much say what they like, and express themselves with a bigger degree of freedom and different social structure entirely, People make jokes or references that some people might find offensive and over all the language, and the social interactions are very different to that of AVEN.

 

What would be wrong though would be to say that either place is inherently superior. One place suites and caters to the needs of one group, and the other caters for the needs of another, and what would be a very bad way to judge ASM would be to search for the most offensive thing that one could find, then post it on AVEN and insist that AVEN users judge the whole site based on a singly sentence, paragraph or even post. 

Sure there are rivalries, and one place may feel they have the moral high ground for one reason, and the other for another, but at the end of the day we are ALL asexual people, and surely THAT is why people hang out on AVEN, drop in to ASM, or have a foot in both camps. 

 

When I am on AVEN I follow AVEN rules as best as I can, I express myself using appropriate language, and give people the respect that AVEN demands of me. When I am on ASM, I do exactly the same. One fore fills  one need, the other another. 

 

One of the things I believe most passionately is that there is far too much division, hate, and intolerant in the world, and I would like to hope for a future where people are more accepting , and understanding towards one other, and groups of people who traditionally do not get along might at least try to find common ground.

 

I would like to find ways to bridge the gaps, foster trust, and find ways to work together, and now seems about the right time.

 

ASM has rules in place that do try to respect AVEN's main concerns, concerns which it has expressed in the past with  AS-NS, 

 

These  rules were not something that was forced upon ASM or even asked of ASM. They were implemented solely because ASM thought it was the right thing to do.

 

ASM really believes that it has something real and tangible to offer the community as a whole and it would like to find real and visible ways to show everyone that together AVEN and ASM are serious about finding ways to foster a cordial relationship, and promote tolerance and understanding withing the asexual community.

 

Such a relationship or lack there of was one of the main reasons that AVEN decided it did not want to even provide a link on its site simply acknowledging the site existed and it called on both AVEN and AS-NS as it was at the time to work together.  

 

I know there are many people here that will do anything they can to stop communication and understanding between our communities  and who really do hate ASM, myself, and most if nor all the people ASM represents, I also know of people on the ASM side of the fence that feel the same way but I refuse to just give up, and give in to such prejudice, and bigotry. So c'mon AVEN... lets do it !!!

 

ASM is a religion of peace... 

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Timeless
30 minutes ago, G0D said:

 

One of the things I believe most passionately is that there is far too much division, hate, and intolerant in the world, and I would like to hope for a future where people are more accepting , and understanding towards one other, and groups of people who traditionally do not get along might at least try to find common ground.

Then complain to your admin about insulting autistic people. The rest I understand.

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G0D
14 minutes ago, Chione said:

Then complain to your admin about insulting autistic people. The rest I understand.

The problem one has with saying that you wont censor people is that you kinda have to... Not censor them.

 

I really don't see a comment that says something is "autistic" as insulting people with autism. It's a bit like saying that something is "stupid" are you really saying that that insults people with below average intelligence?

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G0D

@Chione Here is the issue that we have. You, a non member of a website, A website that decides all it's rules by asking it's members to vote on them, so a near 100% democratic web community, you are saying that your opinion is more valid that the whole of the sites members and you want to change that thing so it can please you. Lets say it went ahead, and just to please one member of a different web site it made a rule "No saying that word". What happens when you decide something else is a thing, and something else, and then the whole of AVEN gets to decide. The end result will be AVEN.... It'd be like me coming here, well not coming here, saying to someone who is on ASM who is a moderator here "Hey Would you mind not calling anyone who disagrees with you "white supremacists" or saying"Could you remove the trump thread as it's not politically balanced".  

 

I am not saying thought that your opinion is wrong, or that I disagree with you necessarily. The whole point about accepting people as they are is actually accepting the things you are uncomfortable with, as well as the things you are. 

 

I have a very odd and strange friendship with someone who insists that because I am a man, and disagree with her on something I am in her eyes VERY sexist, i know there are other things she accuses me of that I utterly refute, but I really like so much else about her, and so many other of her opinions, I tale the insult on the chin. I wish it wasn't there, and I have tries to get her to change, and I know it's not going to happen, but hey so what. from her point of view she still gives me the time of day even though she really detests that I am in her eyes sexist. I know I am not, but I know its something we disagree on, and feel VERY strongly about, but I am willing to accept the one thing that cold rip us apart because the rest makes me smile like an idiot... 

 

even here,, I accept your not happy about something I have no issue with, but I am not in a position to compromise. on this... I hope it doesn't kill the rest.

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ChillaKilla
15 hours ago, Evil said:

I wouldn't call that an insult. Not even close.

Using "fucking autistic" to describe someone doing something perceived as negative is not an insult in... what universe, exactly? At the very least, it's connotating autism negatively.

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ChillaKilla
9 hours ago, G0D said:

The problem one has with saying that you wont censor people is that you kinda have to... Not censor them.

 

I really don't see a comment that says something is "autistic" as insulting people with autism. It's a bit like saying that something is "stupid" are you really saying that that insults people with below average intelligence?

"Stupid" is not a current diagnosis of any recognized medical condition. Using autistic as an insult associates inherent negativity and badness with someone's quantifiable and immutable reality. Same thing if you said "That's lame" versus "That's ALS" (which nobody says, but it's the same principle, one is a general, one is a recognized medical term in modern society with extremely specific criteria). If you say autistic and mean stupid, just say stupid without being unnecessarily edgy about it.

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

As far as I see, most of what's on AVEN is mirrored on Asexual Me.... Apart from the different colour background it's all pretty much of a muchness.

 

 

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Timeless

Look, the admin is promoting hate speech against a marginalised group of people. That isn't acceptable in any society in 2019, regardless of how it's dressed up. That is pure fact.

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Moon Spirit ☽

AVEN is never going to agree to this, it's a professional website that is run in a professional manner.

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G0D
48 minutes ago, Aris said:

Look, the admin is promoting hate speech against a marginalised group of people. That isn't acceptable in any society in 2019, regardless of how it's dressed up. That is pure fact.

Nope. I am not promoting what you call "Hate speech" This mythical thing where because you say one thing, you actually mean another, oh and that you get to hate them for doing it. I am just part of a place that agrees with you.

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G0D

Are you lot really saying one guy has to edit their post, and you lot are all behind a site merge lol? Please guys, I am surprised that's as far as you looked.

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Evil
3 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

Using "fucking autistic" to describe someone doing something perceived as negative is not an insult in... what universe, exactly? At the very least, it's connotating autism negatively.

The one I live in and so what if they do? 

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Skycaptain

I will agree that to describe an act or action as "Autistic" is insulting, there's another word which is banned from being used in this manner on AVEN for good reason. 

 

This is not a green post, but my point of view. As someone who is on the Autistic spectrum, could everyone please not use this as a belittling insult to imply that people are overlooking the obvious. There are many other terms which can be used to decry silliness or stupidity without insulting folk who have a medical condition :)

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LeChat
44 minutes ago, G0D said:

Are you lot really saying one guy has to edit their post...

No. Everyone was answering the question, "Where's the insult?" and letting others know that the wording was offensive toward those with Autism. In other places on the internet, those with Autism have pointed out to others, specifically those who aren't Autistic and might be unaware, that their (i.e. neurotypical peoples') use of autism as a slur to describe things that they don't like is hurtful and problematic for those with Autism, in order for others to learn from their mistakes and do better, in the future.

 

It's what's termed as "neurotypical/ableist privilege." Neurodivergent people, those with Autism, etc., face/have faced years of bullying, negative assumptions made against them, as a whole group, due to their Autism diagnosis, revealing to others their Autistic diagnosis, etc. They're the ones who have to generally always "come out" to others, to let them know they have Autism, and have to deal with society's negative assumptions, stereotypes, etc. Unlike neurotypical people, they don't have the ability to always "hide" their diagnosis, when interacting with others, in the world; so, that's partially what's meant by neurotypical people having "privilege": they don't have a diagnosis of Autism, and therefore, don't ever have to "come out" to others as having Autism, having to deal with others suddenly looking at them or treating them in a patronizing or negative way, etc. The stereotypes of those with Autism are inaccurate; those with Autism have said that each person with Autism has different. It's been pointed out by medical professional that some individuals with Autism have the same, or higher intellectual abilities than neurotypical people.

 

So, this is why it's important for others to be aware that their usage of using a disability as a slur can continue to negatively affect how others see or interact with those with Autism (i.e. or other groups).

 

I hope this helps.

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Sally

As an AVEN member, none of this makes me want to have anything to do with this other website.

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