Jump to content

Sexual Attraction without sex?


Ita25

Recommended Posts

Guest Jetsun Milarepa
58 minutes ago, CBC said:

Something we agree on! Lol.

 

But yeah. I'm baffled as to why it's as difficult a concept to pin down as AVEN makes it. I understand asexuals are trying to define something that they don't experience, and that can be difficult, so that's precisely why input from non-aces is valuable. Vital. And sexual attraction is really really not that complicated. But we keep making it so.

Only if sexuals don't treat aces like

-small children ( 5 year olds was a recent quote);

- laughable

- not normal ( why won't she/he sleep with me? There must be something wrong)

...and various other combinations.

 

As someone who has had enough experience of sex, has given birth to a (now adult offspring) and has had frontline experience of what is diseased, none of the above apply.

 

I could equally say ' if you've never given birth,  how could you ever understand', 'you're not an adult till you've given birth/been a dad'....and that would be just as skewed a view.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

The first quote must have hit a nerve.

 

To your first reply ...can I clarify...do you mean that. I personally am not normative, or the whole ace community?

Also- a clarification on your second paragraph of reply...by the latter one, do you mean becoming a dad?

 

On sexual people posting on this site... I don't mind at all as long as it's about enlightening and not shaming/ blaming/ etc.

 

On the normative front, all my Psychology training says that all sexual orientations are normative... Anything a human being can be is human.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chandrakirti said:

To your first reply ...can I clarify...do you mean that. I personally am not normative, or the whole ace community?

Well the definition of normal is somehing that most people would like : if we say like this 100 people 80 of them likes apples but 20 don´t then it is normal to like them because the majority do that. But then again just because something is not normal dosen´t mean that it is bad like asexuality in this example🙂

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Normal implies abnormality , but I think if the word was changed into usual or common....it's far better IMHO to be uncommon than abnormal...especially when you feel there's absolutely nothing wrong.

 

 As for being an adult, through being a parent, I'm now an entirely different person than I would have been if I hadn't had my child.

When you have to put yourself on the back burner for a child who totally depends on you for their future, it's different than an independent adult partner under ordinary circumstances... For example, I had much more to do than mooch around on these places!😆🍰

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Oh yes...normative is the word we use in Psychology @Telecaster68...that's why I reinforced it here. If the subtext is any lack of semantic dexterity, I'm quite used to these unnecessary jousts.

 

As for the parent thing... I used to pour scorn on my mother when she would say ' you won't understand till you're a parent yourself.' And now I do.

Only speaking from my own experience and this is not meant as an elitist comment about parenthood. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would take great care using statistical terminologies full stop. Consider this, viewing the whole human population, if you were to describe an ethnic minority as "not normal", "not normative" you'd be accused of racism, and the people mentioned in the comments will feel aggrieved. Ergo it would not be surprising if people of a less common sexual, romantic, gender orientation etc feel the same way. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Absolutely. One of my papers way back in the 70s was about the LGBT community. 

I still have it in my cupboard.

The conclusion was that human orientations were all valid. As long as somebody is something, it exists.

No matter how small the community is perceived to be.

 

Everything is relative. On here, most are Ace. In other places, folk might be mainly female/male/old/young/black/white/other races/disabled etc, so everywhere you go, what is 'normative' varies anyway.

It's a fallacy (no pun intended) to put much stock on these things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere
3 hours ago, chandrakirti said:

Normal implies abnormality , but I think if the word was changed into usual or common....it's far better IMHO to be uncommon than abnormal...especially when you feel there's absolutely nothing wrong.

Exactly my opinion. So I too advocate for the idea of writing "asexuality is uncommon" or "asexuality is unusual" instead of "asexuality is statistically not normal".

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

I've never found the word normative to be as precise as actual statistics, but stats aren't helpful to a community looking for more visibility.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa

And, 1% of the human population is 70 million. Not to be sniffed at.

Oh, I forgot...arrogance, snark , safekeeping. Not my words, but 100% accurate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At which point it's time to get back on topic. Skycaptain moderator TGA 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't intend to start a thread that got a tad hostile lol. Also, I realize now that my wording in the post was poor. I used the term "PIV sex" just because I'm a straight male so that's what would apply to me. In terms of the discussion, depending on who it's applying to it could mean any type of sex. 

 

What I meant in the post was to ask what if you're not interested in sex itself, but you do get turned on by stuff like foreplay? I'm just not sure what that would be classified as. Maybe heteroromantic instead of heterosexual. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino
1 hour ago, Ita25 said:

I used the term "PIV sex" just because I'm a straight male so that's what would apply to me.

Again, even in straight cisgender couples, PIV isn't the only possible type of 'the main event' (as Tele puts it). For example, oral (incl. the 69 position) and anal sex can give orgasms to both partners. Have you researched the alternative 'main event' types well enough? Are you sure you aren't interested in them? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/10/2019 at 4:54 PM, CBC said:

Honestly I'm becoming acephobic. I'm scared of what asexuals are doing to the English language.

Am I a self-hating ace, a category traitor, or an AINO if I say I'm inclined to agree with you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino
17 minutes ago, CBC said:

And if you actually want whatever you're terming "foreplay", that is desiring sexual activity with someone.

I'll wait until OP clarifies what exactly he means by foreplay.

 

Any touching of the partner's genitalia for pleasure is sexual activity imo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino

There's a particular reason why I've asked OP to clarify his stance on oral sex. TMI:

Spoiler

I remember reading in some SPFA thread (I don't remember which, it was long ago) that some of those cis-men who've masturbated a lot have a hard time climaxing from PIV because a vagina works differently from a hand. Also,

On 7/13/2018 at 6:24 PM, Serran said:

Honestly, porn addiction can lead to problems performing with a partner. Including ED issues, since without the specific and often extremely hard to duplicate IRL stimulus people stop being able get aroused properly.

On 4/3/2017 at 10:08 PM, aeimquy159 said:

First off "After what feels like hours trying to make him climax" would make most anyone lose interest. From first hand experience I'd recommend he lay off the porn and masturbation a bit. You're more likely to climax with your partner if you're not climaxing a lot on your own. Also masturbating feel very different than intercourse so if you masturbate a lot you can start to prefer that sensation over the sensations from intercourse. This has happened to me and now intercourse arouses me as much as waiting for a bus. 

I don't think it's a big deal for a singleton, but I'll still mention that, though I don't watch dedicated porn (rather, my erotic fantasies have kinky teen-friendly content with adult characters only), I'd expect to have issues with PIV and anal because I normally pick the member at its tip during masturbation, and I guess that oral and manual would be the only types of stimulation by a hypothetical partner that would make me climax.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino
5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's known as death grip, and spawned the no-fap trope.

TMI

Spoiler

Haha, now I know the term for it! I might have the syndrome because I'm too used to making 2-3 strokes per second :D These are hypothetical thoughts, though, as I'm very likely to die a virgin.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
jay williams

This thread has taken some strange mutations. I like what @Homer says in his profile: Labels are for soup cans.

For me, I neither seek, nor desire, nor expect PIV, which is the sexual paradigm for most humans. As a male, I should yearn to mount a female, genitally penetrate her, and ejaculate. Because of some woman wanting to do it, I have tried on numerous occasions, and failed (gone soft) most of the time. It is not in me to do it. I love that there are women who prefer a relationship without PIV. I only wish that you existed somewhere besides cyberspace.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere
3 hours ago, jay williams said:

I love that there are women who prefer a relationship without PIV. I only wish that you existed somewhere besides cyberspace.   

Theoretically there should be more women than men in the group of "heterosexuals who don't like PIV" because, statistically speaking, PIV is much less satisfying for women than men. Perhaps, as some non-ace users have pointed out, they are likely to still enjoy the intimacy aspect despite poor chances of having an orgasm this way? I don't discount it. But I'll still "put my spoonful of vinegar into this barrel of honey" (even if there's no such phrase in English, it's graphic enough to show what it means) because that's what we sex-critical feminists are meant to do. :twisted: For me it's obvious that sexual preferences can have a sociocultural aspect. Well, surely the pressure on having and enjoying PIV for straight women is weaker than it was, the knowledge that for most women it's a very inefficient form of sex in terms of having an orgasm, that for a large minority of women it is even consistently painful, is more widespread. Freudian beliefs than supposedly only vaginal orgasm is "mature" are largely laughed down. But still there is - as we can see even in this topic - the belief that in a different-sex relationship, PIV is "real sex" and the rest is just "foreplay" which "should" (or at least: is expected to) lead to the "main event". And there is also interpersonal pressure: if most men desire PIV, straight women certainly have a stimulus to "learn to enjoy it". Even if more and more people realise that PIV is not so satisfying or even actively uncomfortable for many women, lots of men seem not to get it and to take it personally if it doesn't get their partner off. Orgasm faking is, it seems, still a thing and for me it's another proof that gender imbalance is still strong: it proves that women are expected to "please" men, or at least feel that they should.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is taking some different twists and turns so I'm not sure who to reply to. To those of you asking me to clarify, I'll try my best. I apologize for not being fluent in these types of conversations. I'm also a very private person so discussing this isn't easy for me. 

 

What I am talking about is nothing close to having sex(any type of sex). I mean like something that may cause arousal is the thought of making out and like giving a massage. Not an erotic massage, like a normal massage between two people in a relationship. Being physically close like that. 

 

To the person who mentioned touching the genitals in any way, that's a huge NO from me. I have never fantasied about that. I've even read others fantasy writings online and as soon as it gets to the point where stuff like that starts happening and then sex, I stop. It's weird and uncomfortable for me. I don't like it. 

 

I've even had dreams that cut off at that point. I'll recap one dream I had. I was swimming in a pool with a girl that lives on my street. We were tossing each other around and at some point things turned less innocent. We started getting closer and holding each other, and making out etc. It was an arousing scenario but the thought of it leading to sex broke the arousal and the dream ended. Does that make sense now? Getting aroused by the stuff that happens substantially before sex. I guess if I can use the baseball analogy...I enjoy getting to second base, maybe even third base depending on how you define it, but never getting all the way around to home plate. 

 

If that wasn't clear enough or you have any questions, let me know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sage Raven Domino

Thanks for the detailed explanation @Ita25 There would have been far less confusion if you'd written the OP in as much detail as this.

 

Now it's clear that what you've described was sensual attraction, not sexual one:

Quote

sexual attraction - having a desire to engage in sexual acts with a certain individual (intercourse, orgasmic interludes).

sensual attraction - having a desire to engage in sensual acts with a certain individual (kissing, cuddling, hugging, hand holding, etc).

romantic attraction - having a desire to engage in a romantic relationship with a certain individual (dating, marriage, etc).

(Two more types of attraction are aesthetic and platonic. Of course, multiple types of attraction can be combined.)

 

Note that these definitions don't depend on whether physical arousal is present. It's possible to experience sensual attraction with physical arousal and still be asexual.

 

See also a recent thread with many accounts of sensual attraction.

Link to post
Share on other sites
jay williams

@Nowhere Girl, "Theoretically there should be more women than men in the group of "heterosexuals who don't like PIV" because, statistically speaking, PIV is much less satisfying for women than men. Perhaps, as some non-ace users have pointed out, they are likely to still enjoy the intimacy aspect despite poor chances of having an orgasm this way?"

 

Apart from a quest for orgasm, I think that there is some extra element to sexual attraction and/or the desire to have PIV sex. For the male, I think it involves some male drive to feel manly, or to experience "manliness." For the female, I think it may be analogous: to feel womanly, or to experience "womanliness." 

 

I point this out because, since virtually forever, I have known I don't desire PIV, and I have never been able to understand why. PIV sex is not revolting to me, but I am negatively inclined to desire it. I do find women attractive, and I do have erotic feelings concerning women. But PIV sex is NEVER fancied nor wanted, and NOT having it is very much desired. For me, it is more like an orientation, or a negative male sex drive, or some such thing. 

 

For me, it is "for what reason would I desire to mount a woman, and genitally penetrate her?" Perhaps it is helpful to understand those who deviate from the norm, who identify as a "Top" or a "Bottom." Having a role of "top" or "bottom" makes much more sense to me. Being a "bottom" has always seemed to be my nature.    

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
jay williams
On 3/16/2019 at 12:13 AM, Ita25 said:

This thread is taking some different twists and turns so I'm not sure who to reply to. To those of you asking me to clarify, I'll try my best. I apologize for not being fluent in these types of conversations. I'm also a very private person so discussing this isn't easy for me. 

 

What I am talking about is nothing close to having sex(any type of sex). I mean like something that may cause arousal is the thought of making out and like giving a massage. Not an erotic massage, like a normal massage between two people in a relationship. Being physically close like that. 

 

To the person who mentioned touching the genitals in any way, that's a huge NO from me. I have never fantasied about that. I've even read others fantasy writings online and as soon as it gets to the point where stuff like that starts happening and then sex, I stop. It's weird and uncomfortable for me. I don't like it. 

 

I've even had dreams that cut off at that point. I'll recap one dream I had. I was swimming in a pool with a girl that lives on my street. We were tossing each other around and at some point things turned less innocent. We started getting closer and holding each other, and making out etc. It was an arousing scenario but the thought of it leading to sex broke the arousal and the dream ended. Does that make sense now? Getting aroused by the stuff that happens substantially before sex. I guess if I can use the baseball analogy...I enjoy getting to second base, maybe even third base depending on how you define it, but never getting all the way around to home plate. 

 

If that wasn't clear enough or you have any questions, let me know.

@Ita25, I understand your baseball analogy. I too have found the getting to second or third base exciting, and quite fulfilling. I have found that there is a point of no return however, where the woman partner will want it to culminate in intercourse. Of my PIV experiences of perhaps 30 times, I have never wanted to get past third base; I have never sought to do so, and it is always a letdown to me if a woman wants to. . .fuck. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2019 at 10:16 AM, jay williams said:

@Ita25, I understand your baseball analogy. I too have found the getting to second or third base exciting, and quite fulfilling. I have found that there is a point of no return however, where the woman partner will want it to culminate in intercourse. Of my PIV experiences of perhaps 30 times, I have never wanted to get past third base; I have never sought to do so, and it is always a letdown to me if a woman wants to. . .fuck. 

That sounds very similar to me! Thanks for the reply!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel you to some degree (I'm down for most anything except penetrative sex on my end). It does sounds very nice though, I'm sure you'll meet some ace that is ok with all that fluffy stuff. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...

Sorry for resurrecting an old topic (it's not that old, really) but I've just got to express my opinion since the problem in question is one of the reasons why I started wondering if I could be asexual ^ ^' I'm not sure if it's a good idea since it's so controversial and some are probably tired of hearing it, so don't hate me, please x)


I agree it is unreasonable to come up with a label for something so specific that would be easier to just describe. Any label could just be described, actually, but okay, too many of them already. It probably makes more sense to have dating sites where you could describe all of your preferences in detail. It would be nice to have a better opportunity to meet someone with the same preference rather than having to turn down many otherwise good matches (I'd like to hope the chances aren't really as bad as they seem). Unfortunately, it isn't something you would be comfortable placing on your profile on most dating sites, and kind of awkward to bring up early in the relationship 😐


It's good to see like-minded people, however few. Just reading a few threads here helped me, actually, as well as talking to an understanding friend, and I started to realise there's more logic in my decisions than just fear, and I don't have to do something just because most would expect it from me, or think I'm just being silly and missing out.


I've followed a thread on what constitutes sex, it seems highly subjective how you define it but I wish people were at least less narrow-minded about it. Since most like PIV or other kinds of penetration, or simply think it's necessary for it to be "real", I assume when most people think of preferences, they don't expect that you might not want it at all. Rather, they think of different ways to do it, and what other things you would or wouldn't like to do besides. To me, it's just as pressuring and disappointing as the expectation that touching has to lead somewhere while you just want to touch...
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...