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Sexual Attraction without sex?


Ita25

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This is something that I've pondered. When I've brought this up before I get told that sexual attraction is all about whether you eventually want to have sex. If you don't, it's not sexual. I'm in a weird spot because I have no interest in having PIV sex, but I'm all for everything else. So are you telling me if you have fantasies about someone that doesn't include PIV sex, but it does turn you on, that's not sexual attraction? 

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Littlemermaid223

I’m not the best to ask. But you can still enjoy and want sex and other activities even if you identify as asexual. 

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Sweet Potato
1 hour ago, Ita25 said:

I'm in a weird spot because I have no interest in having PIV sex, but I'm all for everything else.

It doesn't have to be PIV to be sex. else gays and lesbians are all virgins. if you feel attraction towards another person, a desire for that "everything else" I'd call that sexual attraction.

 

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firewallflower

This question is more complicated to answer than it should be, because so many of the concepts it relies on are so nebulously defined. (Not your fault—they're just fairly nebulous by nature, not to mention semantics are a popular subject of debate here on AVEN.) Even aside from the disagreement about what exactly constitutes sexual attraction (sexual desire vs. sexual arousal vs. *insert other debatable properties of sexual attraction*), the definition of "sex" is itself less than straightforward—PIV is far from the only form. I hesitate to get too personal (no need to answer unless you'd like to!), but what sorts of things do you have in mind "by everything else"?

 

Ultimately, I can't tell you whether you're asexual or not. However, I would definitely say that sexual attraction can exist in the absence of interest in PIV. And if you feel that you're sexually attracted to someone... given I can't get inside your head, I'm inclined to say that you're probably sexually attracted to them. :)

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ScribalMarks

I'd call it grey-sexuality. It is what I experience, some sexual attraction but not nearly enough to engage in a sex life typical of most sexuals.

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everywhere and nowhere
3 hours ago, AmaechiJones said:

I'd call it grey-sexuality. It is what I experience, some sexual attraction but not nearly enough to engage in a sex life typical of most sexuals.

I wouldn't. For me a heterosexual person who doesn't like PIV is just that. Nothing gray about it. The focus on PIV is offensive to several groups: first of all, to lesbians, because it leads to saying that they can't have "real sex", only some kind of petting. Besides, it's well known that most women can't orgasm from PIV only, so the focus on PIV being "real sex" and everything else "only foreplay" is detrimental to heterosexual women's satisfaction.

 

I experience something yet further distanced from what is usually described as sexual attraction - at least some form of esthetic attraction with a strong sexual component, but without any desire to actually have sex - and still call it sexual attraction. To me it feels a bit like sexual attraction can pass below the bar of my sex aversion, but sexual desire cannot. However, "desire for everything else except PIV" is sexual desire, to me there's no doubt about it. Kissing, hugging or clothed touch can be fairly described as sensual and not sexual, but oral sex, manual sex? These are just forms of sex, don't let people tell you that every heterosexual person must like and have PIV or that everything else is inferior!

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13 hours ago, Littlemermaid223 said:

you can still enjoy and want sex and other activities even if you identify as asexual. 

What would be the point of "identifying as asexual" then? What would be the difference?

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everywhere and nowhere

A little postscript to my post because I decided that it may sound too much like gatekeeping. I don't support telling people how they should identify. But I also definitely don't support the idea that PIV is supposedly the best, the most "complete" form of sex. Is it statistically untypical for a heterosexual person, particularly male, to have no desire for PIV? It would be accurate to say "yes". But I just don't think that it's something extremely untypical, I don't think that desire for sexual contact without PIV can constitute "only experiencing sexual attraction under very specific circumstances". I don't think that we should narrow down the understanding of asexuality, but when people start wondering whether they are asexual-ish because they have no desire for the form of sex considered most typical for their orientation, it seems like a huge misunderstanding. A straight person who desires sex, but doesn't like PIV is allosexual and heterosexual. A gay man who desires sex, but doesn't like anal sex is allosexual and homosexual. (I recall exactly that kind of case too from this forum - very close to @Ita25's doubts, just mutatis mutandis.) They simply have preferences which are a little untypical.

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Sage Raven Domino

I confess that I've long wanted to coin a label 'acoital' to refer to those who don't desire PiV intercourse but do desire other forms of sex and experience sexual attraction. It would include not only gays but some straight and bi/pan folks too.

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3 minutes ago, Sage Raven Domino said:

I confess that I've long wanted to coin a label 'acoital' to refer to those who don't desire PiV intercourse but do desire other forms of sex and experience sexual attraction. It would include not only gays but some straight and bi/pan folks too.

Why? What would this "label" accomplish?

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Sage Raven Domino

It would highlight the fact that not every straight wants PiV, which is the mode of sex that straights are unfortunately expected to want by default.

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Sage Raven Domino
2 minutes ago, CBC said:

How is 'acoital' any easier than me telling a male partner "I want to have sex with you, but not PIV"?

It's easier to put on a dating profile; apart from that and visibility, I indeed see no other good use cases.

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everywhere and nowhere
14 minutes ago, Sage Raven Domino said:

It would highlight the fact that not every straight wants PiV, which is the mode of sex that straights are unfortunately expected to want by default.

 

8 minutes ago, CBC said:

How is 'acoital' any easier than me telling a male partner "I want to have sex with you, but not PIV"? (Not that I personally have huge issues with it, it's fine, but for argument's sake.) Why would he not look at me like I was loopy? I feel like if I gave it a name, it's going to sound even stranger than if I truly did desire sexual interaction with men but just not that particular act for some reason. Explain in words and sentences, not weirdly clinical-sounding terms that you then have to explain in words and sentences anyway.

I don't think that a label is needed for that. I'm not even sure about using it on dating profiles - a lot of people are fed up with microlabels, writing "I don't like PIV" doesn't take much more space and anyway I doubt if it's something to make public... I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that sexual preferences should be discussed after getting to know each other at least a little.

However, basically highlighting the fact is needed. Straight people are expected to desire PIV, gay men are expected to desire anal sex, and preferences are much broader than that.

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Sage Raven Domino
2 minutes ago, CBC said:

I'm gonna guess that many heterosexual men who came across a woman's dating profile that said she was 'acoital' might just... move along.

What's bad about discouraging a man who wouldn't be a good match anyway?

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Sage Raven Domino

Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension, I'm a bit distracted right now...

 

I know very little about dating. However, if I were to date, I'd be very grateful for the existence of the 'childfree' label - it would save me a lot of time and socializing.

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5 minutes ago, Sage Raven Domino said:

However, if I were to date, I'd be very grateful for the existence of the 'childfree' label - it would save me a lot of time and socializing.

Couldn't you just state that you don't want children? Problem solved.

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Sage Raven Domino
28 minutes ago, Homer said:

Couldn't you just state that you don't want children? Problem solved.

Online dating is a numbers game. Attention spans are becoming shorter and shorter. So search engine optimization helps a dating profile be viewed more often, and having standardized labels helps narrow my own and others' searches by many times.

 

I'm under the impression that 21st century dating is less about making things work with a somewhat compatible candidate, more about browsing thousands (if not millions) of candidates to find someone with whom things will work almost automatically, with as few adjustments as possible :D

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4 minutes ago, Sage Raven Domino said:

I'm under the impression that 21st century dating is less about making things work with a somewhat compatible candidate, more about browsing thousands (if not millions) of candidates to find someone with whom things will work almost automatically, with as few adjustments as possible :D

Makes "dating" look just like online shopping, but if that's what floats people's boats...

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ScribalMarks

NowhereGirl, I was referring to them being turned on but not wanting sex, assuming this meant sexual activity of any kind. Where did I say that PIV sex was the only type of sex ?

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everywhere and nowhere
14 minutes ago, AmaechiJones said:

NowhereGirl, I was referring to them being turned on but not wanting sex, assuming this meant sexual activity of any kind. Where did I say that PIV sex was the only type of sex ?

You didn't. However, what you wrote sounded like you considered PIV to be "sex as such", and other partnered sexual activities - "not sexual enough" to consider a person allosexual.

The OP should decide for himself how he prefers to identify. However, I'm pointing out that in my opinion not desiring PIV, but desiring other kinds of sex may be a little untypical for a straight male - but nowhere near "extremely untypical" or "somewhere in the asexual spectrum".

Which, as a side note, reminds me of something Emily Nagoski said about people's concerns on whether this or that sexual preference is "normal": "Why is it what you want your sexuality to be? Don't you want to be extraordinary?".

stand-out-final.jpg

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Sage Raven Domino

Online dating does feel like online shopping, but I wouldn't feel bad about selling myself :D, YMMV as always.

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everywhere and nowhere
4 minutes ago, CBC said:

That said, I find simply browsing people great for laughs because you come across a lot of "OH GOD WHY WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED?!" sorts. I actually created a Tinder profile a few years ago just to amuse myself. 

Check out the game Leisure Suit Larry: Wet Dreams Don't Dry. I won't show screenshots from its "Timber" app because I played it in the Polish version, but it's anyway a nice adventure game with colorful cartoony graphics. Maybe just a screenshot without the app:

949952-leisure-suit-larry-wet-dreams-don

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ScribalMarks

NowhereGirl, I'm not ordering him to identify as anything. His tastes are unusual, so what ? I couldn't care less how common his orientation is.  Besides, there's no such term as 'untypical'. 'Atypical' exists instead.

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everywhere and nowhere

English is not my native language.

And as for spelling, could you please spell my username correctly and precede it with an "@" sign? For one very simple reason: without it, the forum's message system won't inform me that someone responded to my post.

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everywhere and nowhere
12 hours ago, AmaechiJones said:

Besides, there's no such term as 'untypical'. 'Atypical' exists instead.

Just by the way: "untypical" is correct too, so my imperfect foreign-language instinct didn't fool me:

Which is correct, atypical or untypical?

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Sage Raven Domino
6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

In my experience, so is a heterosexual woman. They're probably less focussed on it than most men (though, really, not always), but there's something about one person being inside the other, which in the moment often seems... very necessary, regardless of orgasm, some pain* (then or later), or gender.

So it's important for straight men and women who're not into PiV to find each other easier, though I agree that preferences for modes of sex aren't separate orientations.

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26 minutes ago, CBC said:

So, who's gonna start the acoital dating site then.

I’m not sure, but I’ll be it’s first member, as PIV has caused me more angst than any other situation I’ve ever encountered  in my entire life. 

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1 minute ago, CBC said:

Fair enough. I'll help design it out of the goodness of my heart (or perhaps sheer boredom, but let's pretend it's the other one), but only if I can call it No Dicking Around.

 

I'll see myself out.

HaHa. I’m fine with that name. In all seriousness this is how I found AVEN searching for such a site. Now I’ll see myself out.

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