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MisterNowhere

Advice? I Think I Destroyed My Relationship...

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MisterNowhere

...all over trying to get an orgasm.

 

Let me explain. I'm still with R, my partner I mentioned in my last post. For awhile things were seriously looking up. We started having sex again, our communication was getting better by the day, and we were both starting to manage our mental health better.

 

Fast forward to this past weekend, we got a bit high for my birthday as part of a sexual fantasy/strategy he shared with me. It was supposed to be fun, and help me relax a lot so I could climax a bit faster and our sex could be less stressful. I was all aboard this train and everything was going well. Until, I struggled to climax and he got physically sick from having a little too much. We stopped for the night and I saw him the next day. R tells me at this meeting that he feels I raped him. 

 

I was (and still am) blindsided and asked to know more because I just did not understand. R tells me he feels violated because when he wanted to stop penetrating me, I told him "sure" but asked if he wanted to do anything else. He also tells me that it was my responsibility to stop him from giving me oral (which he did after penetration) because I "should have known that he was uncomfortable and just going with the flow because" he had asked to stop the penetration. Overall, R feels like I raped him because I should have known he gave invalid consent. R then tells me he stills wants to be with me, but I need to work on my behavior. He then invited me to snuggle and talk about it more, but I declined. I've been distant with him ever since, but have given in a few times and got dinner with him and mini-snuggled.

 

I still want to be with R, but I really don't understand what I did wrong. I thought I had expressed myself clearly, and I don't feel I forced him. R says I did not force him into any activity, but feels that I took advantage of him for oral since i asked for it after we stopped one activity. 

 

I'm unsure where even to begin to change my behavior, but I feel it's rooted in our ace/allo pariring and that it has something to do with me accepting his offer to get high and mess around. I feel like I should have understood that having partner orgasms was off the table for me, yet I pursued it. Our initial sex talks showed he was mostly only willing to recieve attention from me, but I pushed to get some attention for my self and it resulted in this. Perhaps this all was a test R made to see if I could accept not climaxing, and I failed it by asking for additional attention after he asked to stop.

 

TLDR: My partner says I violated his consent by allowing him to give me oral. He wants to stay together but wants me to change my behavior. I don't understand how to change my behavior.

 

I hope this made sense. I'm having a hard time understanding too so I just wantes to write all the infromation I have.

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Bio 7

From what you wrote it sounds like he is being a bit manipulative. Just because you ask for something doesn’t mean he has to give it, so this isn’t all on you.

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AVeryTakenUsername

This is a messy situation. I'm not really sure if I can say for absolute certain who was wrong. I think we might need a little more information.

 

As I understand, you were both high, right? I'm not sure if that's what he was referring to when he said it was your responsibility to stop him. But if that's the case you were just as out of it as he was then, so I'm not sure either of you were in a position to stop the situation.

 

I am not trying to undermine your partner's feelings, but I'm not sure I understand how exactly he was raped? You said this was a fantasy you BOTH shared. You both were back to having presumably consensual sex again before that, on top of that. Did you not stop when he asked to stop the penetration? Were you just as out of it as he was when he gave this so called "invalid consent"?

 

I'm not entirely sure there's any behavior to change, really. It just sounds to me like you both got a little messed up and then well, messed around. I personally don't understand how that's rape, but I also might need a little more context here before I can say for certain.

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Grimalkin

Uh, no.

 

Unless you're leaving out some information here, R is a whackdoodle at best and a serious danger to you at worst. The very last thing you want is for him to get upset with you in the future and start spreading the story that you raped him, or worse, pressing charges. From what you've written, nothing that you've done was serious enough to warrant a casual rape accusation.

 

13 minutes ago, MisterNowhere said:

He also tells me that it was my responsibility to stop him from giving me oral (which he did after penetration) because I "should have known that he was uncomfortable and just going with the flow because" he had asked to stop the penetration.

Unless you physically forced him to give you oral, or manipulated him (guilt tripping, anger, unreasonable sadness, etc.), then this is neither rape nor coercion. Either he fails to understand what rape really is, he is purposefully throwing around a false accusation to manipulate you, or he straight up doesn't understand how incredibly dangerous a false accusation, even one made out of ignorance, can be.

 

I wouldn't have sex with him again.

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Lucinda

Is he saying he was too high to give valid consent?  Or perhaps he meant everything should have come to a grinding halt when he started getting physically sick?

 

I can't quite wrap my head around someone wanting to stay with someone they see as a rapist.

 

Lucinda

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Sweet Potato

you should have known? how? you asked for oral, he agreed. he regrets it doesn't mean you are in the wrong. Unless you are leaving something out I don't see what you have to change about your behavior. it is not your responsibility to make sure your partner is being honest when giving consent. it is his responsibility to say what he means!

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anisotrophic

It sure doesn't sound like good communication...

 

(a generally accepted prerequisite for successful mixed relationships)

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Serran

OK... one, you did nothing wrong if you asked him for consent to do anything and stopped what he asked you to stop.

 

But, I think what you may have run into that he's failing to communicate properly is that it can feel like a lot of pressure so he probably said yes without really wanting to, because he felt obligated. That's not you raped him.. but agreeing out of obligation can feel like it wasn't really consensual even though you are the one giving consent and thus causing yourself the harm. 

 

My wife and I are quick to end / stop / avoid sexual situations if there is any discomfort or not absolutely clear consent. Because we both have felt the given in to feeling obligated thing and it really does mess with your head. 

 

So, I think what he wants is if he calls a stop to any sexual activity, all sexual activities stop. 

 

I know personally... if we're involved in sexual stuff and I get asked for something, I feel awful not giving it. So, sometimes I'll freeze up and not answer, since I don't wanna say no but also don't want to say yes. And I actually want/desire/love the sex life I have with my wife. 

 

But... putting the responsibility solely on you is not fair. He needs to be able to communicate clearly his boundaries with you, so you know. You aren't a mind reader. So, together you two need to work out a way of clearly communicating stop - a safe word, perhaps? 

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Sally

It certainly sounds like he wants you to take the responsibility for him not feeling comfortable (and possibly for him getting sick and being drunk in the first place).  Not emotionally safe to have sex with this guy if that's how he behaves.  

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MisterNowhere
Posted (edited)

Wow, thank you for all for the great words. They were good/useful to read. I've just been having a hard time; it is kind of a mind fuck. Its really difficult to think straight when my life partner accuses me like this, and I don't really understand why. I've had a rough time figuring out up from down because R is normally the only one I talk to about serious/big issues. It is great to have some outside voices on rather I was being reasonable with my feelings, or just trying to deny my responsibility.

 

7 hours ago, AVeryTakenUsername said:

I am not trying to undermine your partner's feelings, but I'm not sure I understand how exactly he was raped? You said this was a fantasy you BOTH shared. You both were back to having presumably consensual sex again before that, on top of that. Did you not stop when he asked to stop the penetration? Were you just as out of it as he was when he gave this so called "invalid consent"?

I'm worried about undermining him to. I really don't want to victim blame or something similar, but I feel he is trying to make me responsible for how he feels and that does not seem healthy. We went over the events together and agreed that we recalled the same things, but came to different conclusions about what our activities meant. This was a mutual fantasy that started with R proposing it a few months ago. As clarification, he was penetrating me and asked if I would be fine if he stopped, which I said yes too. I thought I was pretty out of it (it was my first time), but R does not believe me when I say that. So, I'm unsure if maybe I'm mixing up what I was feeling with something else.

 

7 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Unless you're leaving out some information here, R is a whackdoodle at best and a serious danger to you at worst. The very last thing you want is for him to get upset with you in the future and start spreading the story that you raped him, or worse, pressing charges.

 

Unless you physically forced him to give you oral, or manipulated him (guilt tripping, anger, unreasonable sadness, etc.), then this is neither rape nor coercion.

I don't think I'm leaving anything notable out. We talked stuff over, and we agreed that we mostly recalled the same events (he did not recall himself bruising my chest, or chocking me - those are normal things for me to receive). I'm honestly a bit nervous about this happening if I do fully break up with him. Right now we are still together because he said he did not want to end it yet. I'm also nervous that maybe I did manipulate him? I sighed once after we stopped the penetration, which he said made him feel pressured. It is pretty normal for me to sigh when I don't finish, and we've talked before (a lot) about how its not about him. I thought we were past the sighs being an issue but maybe not; R has not ever said before that they bother him this much.

 

7 hours ago, Lucinda said:

Is he saying he was too high to give valid consent?  Or perhaps he meant everything should have come to a grinding halt when he started getting physically sick?

Clarification, we had stopped our activities for a break about 10 minutes before he actually got sick. I did not ask him to do anything after he got sick; he was really ill so I just looked after him until bedtime.

 

4 hours ago, Serran said:

But, I think what you may have run into that he's failing to communicate properly is that it can feel like a lot of pressure so he probably said yes without really wanting to, because he felt obligated. That's not you raped him.. but agreeing out of obligation can feel like it wasn't really consensual even though you are the one giving consent and thus causing yourself the harm. 

 

But... putting the responsibility solely on you is not fair. He needs to be able to communicate clearly his boundaries with you, so you know. You aren't a mind reader. So, together you two need to work out a way of clearly communicating stop - a safe word, perhaps? 

 I've been thinking about this situation a lot. I feel like this is the closet to what he is probably feeling right now. I've tried very hard to express that I don't expect him to have sex with me; we actually have a plan for what I do when he does not want to have sex. I thought the plan was something he was alright with/safe asking for since we have done it before, and he has not voiced an issue before. I don't know what else I could do to make him feel more comfortable. I think R  wants me to stop asking for reciprocation, but he has never actually said that when we talk.

 

I don't really know what to do. I honestly feel like I am trying as hard as I can to communicate effectively with him. I've really wanted to stay with R because I have a lot put into us, I think he has good qualities outside of intimate relationship skills, and I'm a bit nervous about the aftermath of breaking up (plus, he somehow still sees me as being a worthwhile partner, and that has to be worth something?).

 

When I've asked why he wants to stay with me if I hurt him like this, he says its because he can't imagine living without me. R talks a lot about how he is scared about being alone when I leave, and how its my fault our relationship ended up like this. I feel kind of guilted to stay with him by all this; the way he talks about it makes me feel like leaving over his accusation is petty since he still wants me around. I just feel really uncomfortable about the accusation, but also like I can't leave him. He has apologized by saying he is sorry I feel this way, but I don't know if it is enough. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but its all of my cards. I don't have anyone else to chat with about this, and it is hard for me to think straight about it. i don't know how to figure out if I should keep trying. Or what to do if I do leave and he torpedoes my reputation (we have a lot of mutual friends/relationships) or hurts himself.

Edited by MisterNowhere
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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, MisterNowhere said:

I sighed once after we stopped the penetration, which he said made him feel pressured.

Oh FFS. You can't be responsible for his feelings at that level. He's essentially asking you to suppress even the slightest show of how you're feeling in case he feels pressured by it. That's not your problem, it's one for him to deal with. If this is indicative of his whole attitude, it sounds like he's attempting to offload any responsibility for his own feelings and actions on to you, which is hardly a healthy, loving relationship.

 

1 hour ago, MisterNowhere said:

, he somehow still sees me as being a worthwhile partner, and that has to be worth something?

Not necessarily, if he's being unreasonable and manipulative. Your feelings aren't petty, and if he's saying they are, it sounds more like he's staying out of fear of being alone, and he knows he can manipulate you into not leaving him. 

 

1 hour ago, MisterNowhere said:

R talks a lot about how he is scared about being alone when I leave, and how its my fault our relationship ended up like this. I feel kind of guilted to stay with him by all this; the way he talks about it makes me feel like leaving over his accusation is petty since he still wants me around.

This is straightforward manipulation by him, as is implying he'll hurt himself unless you stay. It also makes his accusations that you're manipulating him a kind of projection, I think. 

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Serran

I really dont like the fact hes blaming you for everything. I have been in his position and it sucks and feels awful to do things by feeling pressured... but there is a difference in feeling pressured and being pressured. 

 

I think, based on what you said, the best route would be stop anything sexual for now and talk a lot about how you need him to communicate boundaries and feelings more clearly, because the last thing in the world you want is for him to agree to something unless he truly wants to do it. Word it as I need to know when to stop, because I am not reading it right. And I need to know how you are feeling in the moment, because I am still trying to understand. Etc. That way he doesn't go defensive (hopefully). 

 

It sounds like any show of sexual frustration from you is taken as pressure. But, you are sexual, so its going to happen. And I get how he feels, I really do. I feel pressure to give everything a partner wants sexually, whether I would hate it or not. I have said yes and ended up going into the bathroom to cry after. But that was me, I never blamed a partner for it - I didn't communicate so how would they know ? 

 

The way me and my wife avoid this particular issue is if we feel guilty or pressure to perform, we tell each other and then we agree nothing sexual happens until we are comfortable with doing it. And the one that is wanting but not getting reassures by lots of affection and not getting angry or pushing away, showing it really is OK to wait. And if an offer is questionable, we check in "do you really want to? Its OK if you don't, I dont mind waiting". 

 

But... he has to take some responsibility for communicating or lack there of. You can't know what he needs or feels in the moment unless he tells you. Instead of can I stop penetration he should have asked can we stop and cuddle instead. That would have made it a clear I need sex stuff to be over, are we still OK? 

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anamikanon

If things happened exactly as you say (without omitting parts you'd rather not admit), sounds like you're being gaslighted into serving him sexually without him returning the effort.

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anamikanon
13 hours ago, MisterNowhere said:

I feel like I should have understood that having partner orgasms was off the table for me, yet I pursued it. Our initial sex talks showed he was mostly only willing to recieve attention from me, but I pushed to get some attention for my self and it resulted in this.

Which one of you is asexual? He's interested in getting sexual pleasure but not giving it. Sounds like a garden variety selfish sexual, not asexual.

 

13 hours ago, MisterNowhere said:

Perhaps this all was a test R made to see if I could accept not climaxing, and I failed it by asking for additional attention after he asked to stop.

Did he say stop to all sexual activity? Then if you coerced/seduced him while high, may be iffy. That said, more on an "oops" grade than crime grade. He wasn't the only one high. You were high too, so how is it that he can consent because he is high and the consent can be invalidated in hindsight, but you have to be sober enough to read his mind? Doesn't sound fair. Though on an "oops" grade between loving partners, can be a realization that "this is how we can cross lines of comfort and we probably shouldn't have sex when high and unable to recognize and articulate discomfort"

 

 

13 hours ago, MisterNowhere said:

TLDR: My partner says I violated his consent by allowing him to give me oral. He wants to stay together but wants me to change my behavior. I don't understand how to change my behavior.

Highly suggest you get out of this relationship while you can. Rape is a dangerous accusation to make and he clearly seems unhinged enough to fling it casually. Rape by allowing someone to pleasure you is nonsense. 

 

Seems like he either has very serious assertion issues where he can't say no when requested, even at the cost of self-harm. Or he is being horribly manipulative by basically making your sex about only him receiving pleasure and anything else is abuse.

 

I would not stay in such a relationship for many reasons. On an intimate level things like trust. But also on a legal risk level. If accused of rape, you could probably exonerate yourself with an accusation like this in a court of law, but in the meanwhile you'd socially be a rape accused - which is also another can of worms.

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anisotrophic

Misusing the word "rape" is looking like blackmail here to me. ie a threat to stay with him, or he tells social circles you're a rapist.

 

Which seems really reprehensible, it's so disrespectful to victims of actual sexual violence.

 

My earlier terse comment was meant to say: I think your partner's ability to communicate and your ability to trust him to do this is likely unrecoverable. That's a reason to split: you don't trust that he's going to take enough responsibility for communicating clearly to continue this relationship.

 

And I think it sounds like it was inevitable, not like you destroyed it. Sorry. :-/

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anamikanon

This post is strictly a word of caution - this may not be the case of your relationship, but if you have observed things that you recognize in this post, please be cautious and involve third parties instead of dealing with your partner on your own:

 

If your partner is prone to drama, you should take into confidence one or two people who you can consult about this and if possible, have your partner talk to them as well - you can say it is as a part of your process of learning to behave better. You don't have to tell the others anything. Just that you're having relationship issues and would appreciate their advice.

 

Purpose is twofold. If you are being set up for rape accusations in the future, witnesses to exactly what was being termed rape may just save your skin some day, because it is hard to establish what goes on in the privacy of a bedroom and if while filing a complaint your partner says he refused and you forced.... it becomes your word against his.

 

A lot of people with control issues can get very spiteful and manipulative and punishing if things don't go their way. If your partner is prone to dramatic outbursts and accusations, I would highly recommend that you involve a third party who witnesses candid accounts of what happened before you broach the subject of separation or any confrontation or disagreement for anything that may trigger them into thinking that you may refuse to do as they want. Things like not wanting to lose you can also trigger blackmail processes going from "You raped me, but I love you and you must do what I say" to "You raped me, but I'll not have you arrested you if you stay" or worse. Get this straight. Rape is an intimate violation. There is no such thing as loving your rapist.

 

This is an example from our life. May not be the story of your man, but an example of how fast things can escalate when such a person gets triggered.

 

My ace once got "friendly" with a woman who was charming, easy going, an academic and intellectual and had tons of things in common with him. I was in another city and he really enjoyed her company and when she said things got serious, he accepted it - he doesn't have any concept of his own of what "serious to the point of sex" is. She initiated a sexual relationship - FULLY knowing that he was in a polyamorous relationship with me. Then got attached to him and assumed that since I was in another city and she was local, she was his primary partner and started getting upset that he loved me - someone with whom he had a committed relationship and family - "more" than her - a newly forming relationship - the entire saga lasted all of one week. Then she wanted him to "choose" between her and me. He wouldn't. And when forced, he chose me. Till then, he hadn't flat out refused anything she demanded. Things were all persuasion, seduction, charm, serious conversations...

 

And then shit hit the fan. The charming woman vanished. She threatened to have him arrested for rape and get a group of friends to assault him in his home, etc. She accused him of a thousand things. Manipulating her, human trafficking type exploitation, etc. Physically attacked him. She accused ME of running a scam in tandem with my ace to lure unsuspecting women into relationships. Quite forgetting that it was she who came on to my ace who d'uh being ace wasn't pushing on the sexual front at all. He so much didn't have a vocabulary to even explain all this to me, that let alone lure her, I had no idea even that she was coming on to him till after they had had sex. She forced him to write her an apology and "confession" and copy me into a group email or she'd go to the cops. Then she tried to get me to see how he was a "user" and to dump him. Major drama and me not being intimidated, was supremely bored, but didn't want to piss her off, because he was genuinely scared and he was the one she was obsessed with.

 

The saga didn't end till I bluntly told her to go fuck herself and do what she wanted and that I wasn't my ace and would be happy to discuss the ethics of her relentlessly sexually pursuing a married man who wasn't interested in sex in court of law and then abusing and torturing him in order to break up his marriage. And if it came to that, I'd be asking for compensation for the harassment that she'd remember for life. We were polyamorous and she knew it and there was nothing unethical about my husband being with her if he chose to. If she wanted him to dump me for her, she should have told him that before getting involved. He was so terrified of her, he used to be scared to get out of his home. Can't blame him. She was seriously demented. Insane. And my ace is a non-confrontational soul, as opposed to me, who lives to put bullies six feet under. He stopped being interested in anyone else after that - I can't even tease him about women he likes, because he freaks out and goes into lectures about how he isn't into all that and that one time was a mistake. Polyamorous by belief, but chose "ethical monogamy" with me. To date he avoids social situations where he could run into her, even as I hope I get to meet that bitch one day. NO ONE messes with my loved ones. All this would have ended in the blink of an eye at ANY point if he agreed to dump me and get into a relationship with her. That was it. That was what she wanted.

 

If it weren't for a third party outside her power = me, calling for a hard reality check, this would have ended very, very badly. The thing with this kind of pressure is that it only works in the privacy of a relationship. The minute you have an independent observer, the illogic of the manipulative relationship is very easy to see and call out. If this sounds familiar to you, note you came here thinking YOU have destroyed your relationship - and see the responses you are getting. Because none of us are under the influence of the complex manipulation such control takes. It doesn't even take extraordinary courage. Simply witnessing what happened. I took a proactive stand and was aggressive because I was angry at the abuse of my ace, but even if I hadn't been, me being able to narrate what happened immediately nullifies the threat of the false criminal charges, because there is a witness to the truth being admitted by her. Actually, in our case, it was email, so it was also evidence...

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☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

The more I read about this situation, the more red flags I see.  Honestly, this relationship seems extremely dangerous and manipulative.

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MisterNowhere

 

On 3/3/2019 at 1:35 PM, anamikanon said:

This post is strictly a word of caution - this may not be the case of your relationship, but if you have observed things that you recognize in this post, please be cautious and involve third parties instead of dealing with your partner on your own:

 

A lot of people with control issues can get very spiteful and manipulative and punishing if things don't go their way. If your partner is prone to dramatic outbursts and accusations, I would highly recommend that you involve a third party who witnesses candid accounts of what happened before you broach the subject of separation or any confrontation or disagreement for anything that may trigger them into thinking that you may refuse to do as they want. Things like not wanting to lose you can also trigger blackmail processes going from "You raped me, but I love you and you must do what I say" to "You raped me, but I'll not have you arrested you if you stay" or worse. Get this straight. Rape is an intimate violation. There is no such thing as loving your rapist.

 

If it weren't for a third party outside her power = me, calling for a hard reality check, this would have ended very, very badly. The thing with this kind of pressure is that it only works in the privacy of a relationship. The minute you have an independent observer, the illogic of the manipulative relationship is very easy to see and call out. If this sounds familiar to you, note you came here thinking YOU have destroyed your relationship - and see the responses you are getting. Because none of us are under the influence of the complex manipulation such control takes. 

Well, this was pretty accurate and felt a lot like my relationship lately.  I'm sorry to hear that you have had to endure something similar within your relationship. I don't really have anyone else to lean on and take with me. I'm going to try and figure something out where I don't have to talk to him totally alone. I have been telling my Mom like a play-by-play of what's happening. She is really the only other intimate relationship I have right now. I also talked with the misconduct advocate at my school, and she offered me some clarity and helped me file some stuff that should be helpful if this goes further awry.

 

I don't really have much else to say, but I felt I should put something on the thread. I only really know that I can't keep doing this relationship like this any more. He keeps off and on deciding we have broken up (about five times this week) based on messages I send that he says are "harsh." The more I think about, I just feel that its a lot like Serran mentioned. I feel that R is probably misattributing his feelings, as well as trying to pin the blame on me. The words of my Mom have also come back to haunt me: "Are you sure he is emotionally mature enough right now to be in a relationship?" I feel that R just can't deal with me not accepting full responsibility for how he feels. This is a reoccurring pattern, but its never been this bad before. I don't think I have to worry about R too much more. He seems to have changed his mind about still wanting me so it feels a bit easier to leave. All I have to do is figure out how to avoid ending up in another relationship like this again, and lick my wounds until it hurts less. Getting tossed out after I have tried so hard to support him has been rough. I don't get any closure, but I feel like its not my fault this all went bust. I just wish he realized how manipulative he has been towards me by blaming most of the bad stuff on me. The only responsibility he took was saying he should have worked on treating his depression and possible BPD sooner (possible because he bounced from the doctor before they could finish accessing him). I honestly still want to work it out a bit because I think he is just sick, but wow I can't shoulder it anymore. Maybe I can find another person who will put up with my eccentricities. 

 

I know this was really tangential to him being ace, so thank you for listening and offering advice anyway!

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anamikanon

Hang in there. Call this a narrow escape.

 

Funny you mention BPD, because at least the top three such examples (manipulative behavior that is based on controlling the loved one - carrot stick approach till strong refusal, then BOOM) that come to my mind all have BPD, so perhaps this may be one of the difficulties of the condition.

 

That said, it still isn't something you should be handling without backup, so to say. If you are able to get out of the relationship with your partner's agreement, this is the best thing for you right now.

 

One important boundary I think is the intimate vs therapeutic one. Too may people try to fix their partners. In my view, it is something that gets ugly sooner or later, because a partner is an equal who knows and discovers many things as a matter of trust and lowered boundaries. A therapist is someone who due to their role is somewhat assessing and uninvolved. Taking a therapeutic attitude with an intimate partner can feel like a violation and they can feel judged. As though information they provided in trust was used to paint an ugly picture of them. It isn't true, of course, but to a vulnerable person, trying to present their very best side to their partner, them seeing the issues that a therapist sees is a disaster. Combine that with control issues.... not a good idea.

 

Exiting is a good idea. You can still care for them and support their journey, but you don't have to risk yourself to do it.

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anamikanon
34 minutes ago, MisterNowhere said:

I'm sorry to hear that you have had to endure something similar within your relationship.

Thanks for caring. It was pretty bad. She didn't do anything to me directly, but with my partner being very non-assertive, and her demands largely being focused on cutting me out from his life, his behavior toward me started hurting me. It was quite some time before we recovered from that. I was never under her power, but the person with the power to hurt me was, and he was pretty roughed up in the process. Dealing with my upsets and grief that he felt guilty about causing, dealing with her demands that he couldn't say no to... it was bad.

 

Him being non-assertive, he'd probably have listened to her indefinitely, except she asked him to dump me - we have a pretty intense history together and that was never on the cards - I'm literally the first and only "home" where he's felt completely accepted. Even if we broke up, he'd probably still be found in my living room. lol. It is home. It goes way beyond romance and relationship as a couple. So he had to refuse and that sort of brought that pack of cards down.

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IronHamster
On 3/2/2019 at 4:09 PM, MisterNowhere said:

...all over trying to get an orgasm.

 

Let me explain. I'm still with R, my partner I mentioned in my last post. For awhile things were seriously looking up. We started having sex again, our communication was getting better by the day, and we were both starting to manage our mental health better.

 

Fast forward to this past weekend, we got a bit high for my birthday as part of a sexual fantasy/strategy he shared with me. It was supposed to be fun, and help me relax a lot so I could climax a bit faster and our sex could be less stressful. I was all aboard this train and everything was going well. Until, I struggled to climax and he got physically sick from having a little too much. We stopped for the night and I saw him the next day. R tells me at this meeting that he feels I raped him. 

 

I was (and still am) blindsided and asked to know more because I just did not understand. R tells me he feels violated because when he wanted to stop penetrating me, I told him "sure" but asked if he wanted to do anything else. He also tells me that it was my responsibility to stop him from giving me oral (which he did after penetration) because I "should have known that he was uncomfortable and just going with the flow because" he had asked to stop the penetration. Overall, R feels like I raped him because I should have known he gave invalid consent. R then tells me he stills wants to be with me, but I need to work on my behavior. He then invited me to snuggle and talk about it more, but I declined. I've been distant with him ever since, but have given in a few times and got dinner with him and mini-snuggled.

 

I still want to be with R, but I really don't understand what I did wrong. I thought I had expressed myself clearly, and I don't feel I forced him. R says I did not force him into any activity, but feels that I took advantage of him for oral since i asked for it after we stopped one activity. 

 

I'm unsure where even to begin to change my behavior, but I feel it's rooted in our ace/allo pariring and that it has something to do with me accepting his offer to get high and mess around. I feel like I should have understood that having partner orgasms was off the table for me, yet I pursued it. Our initial sex talks showed he was mostly only willing to recieve attention from me, but I pushed to get some attention for my self and it resulted in this. Perhaps this all was a test R made to see if I could accept not climaxing, and I failed it by asking for additional attention after he asked to stop.

 

TLDR: My partner says I violated his consent by allowing him to give me oral. He wants to stay together but wants me to change my behavior. I don't understand how to change my behavior.

 

I hope this made sense. I'm having a hard time understanding too so I just wantes to write all the infromation I have.

You deserve better.  

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uhtred

I think its important not to weaken the concept of "rape".  Rape means coercing sex.  Asking for anything is not rape, unless there is an implied threat of violence.  Its not rape if your partner didn't enjoy it, only if you refused to stop when they indicated that they wanted you to.

 

Drugs /alcohol blur things, but if both were similarly impaired, then  I don't see it as rape.

 

Something sexual happened that he didn't like. That is extremely unfortunate and you should try to prevent it from happening again, but I don't see it as anything close to rape. 

 

OP - I don't see how you did anything wrong.

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gaogao
On 3/3/2019 at 12:09 AM, MisterNowhere said:

Perhaps this all was a test R made to see if I could accept not climaxing, and I failed it by asking for additional attention after he asked to stop.

I didn't read everything everyone said so far but this kinda jumped out to me. Does R test you on stuff like this a lot? What makes you think it's a test? I don't just mean sexual stuff either but like, even just small things like not leaving things around to see if you'll tidy them, or messing with you to see what your reaction will be.

 

Cos imo if you're getting tested in your relationship like this that's a Big Red Flag. Relationships should have trust - you shouldn't be testing whether your partner is gonna do something or not. That's messed up???

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MisterNowhere
Posted (edited)

I suppose this will be my last update since I found the conclusion. I just know I like closure in threads/forums.

 

R left me yesterday. Aparently the origin of this all is he has been ignoring/bottling up a lot of new feelings he has about his sexuality and romantic orientation; he ended up attributing the emotional toxicity of that to the sex we had on Sunday night. R thinks he might be aro and sex repulsed (it all came back to bite me in the ass, and I'm guessing he didn't really tell me what he needed the last time he had these feelings - see a previous post of mine). He said he kept these feelings/thoughts from me because he was scared I would be hurt/upset by his self-exploration. Why he thought this was a preferable alternative, I have no idea.

 

R doesn't believe I raped him anymore, which is a relief. He feels like he got himself into the position we were in that night, and that I did not pressure him. But he still feels uncomfortable with me since I was involved in the activities (just by virtue of being his sex partner). R feels "violated" but by an "unknown element."

 

I did get a significant apology from him that felt truthful. He apologized for how he has been treating me, and for how hurtful his accusation was. That was good.

 

He talked a lot about how he couldn't imagine putting in the effort to rebuild our relationship foundation because reasons (?). I didn't really understand this part, he just talked a lot about how he doesn't see me as the person he started dating two years ago. That cut pretty bad, but meh. It was just confusing. He could not even say "C, I want to break up." So I guess I technically left him; I listed out my relationship options and he just said the first one (which was fully splitting). 

 

R said he just doesn't know how he feels about me. We're still friends but I'm not sure how that's going to go. I just feel weird about it, but he is my best friend so I'm going to try it. I'm not sure if I'm just stuburn or if I need to up my standards. R says he still needs space, at least until May when he graduate (which applies to his friends and family too).

 

R said he would ultimately come back to me as a partner if his self-reflection concludes with him feeling like he can be in a relationship. I think this was serious, but maybe it was just to placate me/ease his own guilt. I feel kind of stupid but I actually do want to wait up at least for a little bit. It took me 3ish years to move past my last relationship, so I'm probably not going to be doing much anyway.

 

I really thought R would be who I would die with, and I honestly don't feel like I want anything else. I don't really know if this feeling will go away. The hard part is I'm still just blindsided, but at least I have some closure. At least he told me this before I actually proposed next month. I don't really know how to rebuild my personal life. I've gotten so used to our couple's lifestyle that I don't really know what else to do. But I'm pretty sure that's something everyone deals with after a committed relationship implodes. I feel oddly slighted by how he seems to have never been truly vulnerable to me in this relationship, even though I have been.

 

I'm honestly just left hoping this pattern in my life fizzles out at some point. I mainly date ace people (because I find the ones I crosspaths with are more in line with my sexuality then other bisexuals) and something of this version tends to happen - even in my non-sexual QPRs.

Edited by MisterNowhere
Clarification
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MisterNowhere

 

On 3/8/2019 at 4:57 AM, gaogao said:

Does R test you on stuff like this a lot? What makes you think it's a test? I don't just mean sexual stuff either but like, even just small things like not leaving things around to see if you'll tidy them, or messing with you to see what your reaction will be.

 

Cos imo if you're getting tested in your relationship like this that's a Big Red Flag. Relationships should have trust - you shouldn't be testing whether your partner is gonna do something or not. That's messed up???

They were somewhat common, but maybe test was not the right word. They were just like instances where I would try my best at something/do what comes naturally for me, and then it turns out I did not do what he was expecting/looking for. Those feel like tests for me because it's almost like he is just letting me do something so he can critique it later; I mean what's another reason to not mention it in the actual momment?

 

Intimately, it was always stuff like him telling me after the fact he would have preffered if we did an alternate arrangement (we had agreed on options like I get the bedroom to myself for a bit, mutual masturbation type things, etc). Like he would be disappointed I did not ask for an alternate and instead went along with a more traditional flow. He always kind of put the onus of using our "trouble-soothing" plan on me by expecting me to suggest it if he seemed uncomfortable. I never really ment to, but sometimes I just missed cues if they weren't very direct.

 

And then outside of our intimate life, it was always more like assuming I would know how to do things that weren't pointed out. Like, if he was sad and asked for "comfort and help" I would give him some (normally clean, and sit up with him and chat). But afterward he would tell me it was not the kind of attention he needed; he would be really disappointed I did not get/understand what he was asking for with the general request for "comfort and help."

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ryn2

I hope once you have a little time to let everything sink in you find you’re happier with just your own company (for the short term, anyway).  *hugs*

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Skullery Maid

X (sorry, missed the update) 

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Sally

It's entirely possible that he thinks that when he figures things out (or finds that he doesn't really want to be alone, or thinks that you will do what he wants because you don't want to be alone), he may try to come back.  Don't let him.  In the  meantime, do not write him, call him, text him, or contact him in any way.  You need space.  

 

Think about some ways you can develop some other relationshps so that you don't find yourself putting up with this horrible behavior again because that one person is the only person you have.  

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gaogao
On 3/10/2019 at 11:31 PM, MisterNowhere said:

 

They were somewhat common, but maybe test was not the right word. They were just like instances where I would try my best at something/do what comes naturally for me, and then it turns out I did not do what he was expecting/looking for. Those feel like tests for me because it's almost like he is just letting me do something so he can critique it later; I mean what's another reason to not mention it in the actual momment?

 

Intimately, it was always stuff like him telling me after the fact he would have preffered if we did an alternate arrangement (we had agreed on options like I get the bedroom to myself for a bit, mutual masturbation type things, etc). Like he would be disappointed I did not ask for an alternate and instead went along with a more traditional flow. He always kind of put the onus of using our "trouble-soothing" plan on me by expecting me to suggest it if he seemed uncomfortable. I never really ment to, but sometimes I just missed cues if they weren't very direct.

 

And then outside of our intimate life, it was always more like assuming I would know how to do things that weren't pointed out. Like, if he was sad and asked for "comfort and help" I would give him some (normally clean, and sit up with him and chat). But afterward he would tell me it was not the kind of attention he needed; he would be really disappointed I did not get/understand what he was asking for with the general request for "comfort and help."

I'm sorry but in my opinion... everything you have described is really very unreasonable.

 

If he wants you to do something he should clearly communicate it. He can't expect people to know what he wants from vague cues and it's super unhealthy for him to say he was disappointed when he didn't clearly communicate what he wanted. Sometimes we don't know what we want and therefore can't say it, and it's normal to be disappointed afterwards, but you can't retro-actively blame someone for that or act disappointed that they didn't read your mind or notice some subtle quirk that might mean something. Sure, if someone knows you well enough they might be able to tell, but that sort of thing is rare and should NEVER be EXPECTED in a relationship. 

 

I think it's good to take a break from him and honestly, as other people have said, it'd be good to cultivate other friendships and relationships while you're apart.

 

Expecting people to do what you want without telling them what you want beyond vague cues....  is hugely, hugely manipulative and in my experience just gets worse. It's been a common theme with people who have been emotionally damaging to me, and has messed with my perceptions of things for a long time. I got to the point where i was always trying to read the minds of everyone around me and over-interpreting things that looked like cues that actually meant nothing and freaking out that I might have missed something  - because that's what this sort of behaviour encourages and what I've been trying to un-learn. 

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Serran
9 hours ago, gaogao said:

I'm sorry but in my opinion... everything you have described is really very unreasonable.

 

If he wants you to do something he should clearly communicate it. He can't expect people to know what he wants from vague cues and it's super unhealthy for him to say he was disappointed when he didn't clearly communicate what he wanted.

 

Expecting people to do what you want without telling them what you want beyond vague cues....  is hugely, hugely manipulative and in my experience just gets worse. 

Eh. Ok. Not that I think this was a healthy relationship and obviously the partner needs some practice in taking responsibility for his own feelings / actions... it's not really manipulative just to expect your partner to know you well enough to know how to help you and be disappointed that they do not. It's part of being in a relationship that you learn what your partner likes, dislikes, their personality and what works or doesn't with them. And if you've already (in your mind) communicated it well enough to them and they still get it wrong, it's going to feel disappointing you can't connect that way together. 

 

Part of a long-term relationship is learning each other well enough to be able to accurately guess what your partner needs at least a lot of the time. If you can't, for many people, that's going to feel like a huge incompatibility / issue on its own. If my partner had to spell out in detail what they needed, they would never ask for help and I'd never give it and then we would never have stayed together. Some people are OK spelling it out and some need a person who can get to know them so they don't have to. 

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