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1 in 3 women experience pain during intercourse


Mollie

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1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

The ones that started during sex were probably critical-sounding because they were either “do you like [what I am doing],” which was typically “no,” or something hurting where I’d ask to stop.

Not liking something doesn't have to be critical. Criticism is about the other. You can say I don't like this so much, can we do that instead?

 

1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

I found if I said “do more of that” or “I really like that” during sex whatever I mentioned became the go-to magic thing that was expected to work every time, and if I later didn’t react as though I liked it and/or asked to stop it he would be confused and upset about my changing my mind.

Lost track of the number of times I've told a man "I can't get off like this. It isn't working" during PIV sex. As long as it is me not being able to get off, it doesn't bother them. I usually get offers for other things which may work better, which I can accept or suggest something else.

 

My golden rule for communication is to state MY state rather than comment on what they did.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Presumably that doesn't mean you'd only ever want to fuck if an orgasm was guaranteed that way though?

Not sure if this is a question. I don't mind PIV. I can enjoy it. It doesn't get me off, unless the man really knows what he's doing with his P. Here my ace actually scores good now that he's figured out what to do with his P, because he's in no hurry to take off on his own climax. Side-benefits of asexuality.

 

That said, it is way easier to get me off in other ways. PIV is likely to make me sore as often as climax.

 

1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm not proposing the guy orgasms then rolls over. I'm saying if he can't get a woman off with fucking, he should do it another way.

That is exactly what we were saying all through. No one is abolishing the holy PIV. We are simply saying it isn't all that mind blowing for women.

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I know I'm slightly at a disadvantage here, having never slept with a man, but I honestly find it hard to believe that most men really don't care about getting their partner off, even if just as a matter of male pride.

The problem with men - and you may be able to recognize this - is that when the sex gets good, their own need for a climax gets overwhelming and they pretty much "take off" with their thrusts, grinds or whatever they need and have very little ability to focus their actions toward the woman. Once that flight is landed, most of them are pretty wiped and if they are getting sex routinely, there is little reason to go above and beyond to stay awake.

 

To put it mildly, my ace isn't the first man I've been pissed with for being asleep while I'm still aroused. He's merely the only man who manages to do it before his own climax.

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22 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

It all depends on how something is said. Anything that seems to lead to a "right answer" can make someone feel cornered if that isn't their answer. Leave enough space to really hear their answer, and it works.

In my case it was kind of flipped around, where I - the closer-to-ace person - was also much more experienced.  My partner claimed to (and perhaps legitimately did) want to do things I enjoyed, but in the end it came across less as that and more as seeking reassurance that what he was already doing was what I enjoyed.

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anisotrophic

Bisexual men exist.

 

Penetrative sex doesn't have to end in orgasm for a male partner, but I think it's considerate to let that happen.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

My actual problem is that @RocknRoll_Doll thinks that women only like PIV because they've been fooled into thinking they do. Most women understand far better than most men that sex is about more than orgasm, in which case there's no reason to write-off PIV, which she was proposing.

Can't speak for most women, but for me, I was a lot more excited about PIV sex when I was new to sex. It was SEX, right? And it felt good, etc. Plus all those positions and stuff to try that you've read about... With more experience, orgasms started mattering and I got interested in better ways to achieve them. With still more experience, I was too old for sex for the heck of it and now I do PIV pretty much because the man likes it and I enjoy it, but there had better be my orgasm too. Whether with P or whatever.

 

So yes, for me at least, the interest in PIV was much much higher when I was younger.

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9 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

My golden rule for communication is to state MY state rather than comment on what they did.

I *think* this is what I was doing but there’s no way to test it now. I’m sure there are times I sounded exasperated, though, because I was.  It wasn’t even about getting off, it was about not doing things that were unpleasantly painful or would cause me problems later.

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

The reason would be making sure your lover has a good time too. I'm honestly shocked that the proportion of shitty male lovers is apparently so high.

You may want to consider your unique perspective of someone who spent two decades with an asexual, thirsting for sex.

 

Most men get laid routinely and sex is not that big a deal. There are considerate men, but routines have this thing about being largely comfortable, on auto-pilot and thoughtless for the most part. But even the most considerate man will have times when he's simply in his own head, enjoying a pleasurable activity and done.

 

Frankly, for me it wasn't either, till asexuality hit and suddenly it was a very big deal.

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7 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

The problem with men - and you may be able to recognize this - is that when the sex gets good, their own need for a climax gets overwhelming and they pretty much "take off" with their thrusts, grinds or whatever they need and have very little ability to focus their actions toward the woman. Once that flight is landed, most of them are pretty wiped and if they are getting sex routinely, there is little reason to go above and beyond to stay awake.

*nods*

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2 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

But even the most considerate man will have times when he's simply in his own head, enjoying a pleasurable activity and done.

Yes, and this seems to be wholly independent of how considerate they are as a whole.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

And yep everyone's on autopilot sometimes, even women. 

Yes, but a woman being on autopilot won't prevent a man from reaching PIV climax. That is the point.

 

The vice versa is not true. The more the autopilot, the more hopeless it gets for the woman. That is assuming that the man in skilled manual pilot mode is any good at PIV. Or it is all hopeless. In contrast, a woman doesn't have to be "good" at PIV for a man to climax either.

 

It is simply how the climaxes work, not a conspiracy to defame heterosexual men.

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6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

And yep everyone's on autopilot sometimes, even women. 

At least with the guys I’ve slept with, sometimes is “every time orgasm nears.”

 

When it comes to pride, the confident ones don’t even think to wonder if anyone else is having fun and the not-confident ones have to focus and hurry so as not to lose their erections before the finish line.

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Just now, anamikanon said:

Yes, but a woman being on autopilot won't prevent a man from reaching PIV climax. That is the point.

 

The vice versa is not true. The more the autopilot, the more hopeless it gets for the woman. That is assuming that the man in skilled manual pilot mode is any good at PIV. Or it is all hopeless. In contrast, a woman doesn't have to be "good" at PIV for a man to climax either.

 

It is simply how the climaxes work, not a conspiracy to defame heterosexual men.

This is 100% true.  What most women need (just in terms of physical stimulation) to climax is not anything that happens routinely during PIV sex, and the more the guy is on autopilot the less chance there is of any of it happening.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

would you feel there was a bit of underlying misogyny going on?

The typical motions het men use to masturbate are replicated during PIV sex.  The ones women use are not.  It’s anatomy, not judgment.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Well, not intentionally. If you switch genders on the last page or so of this thread (with appropriate anatomical adaptations), would you feel there was a bit of underlying misogyny going on?

You mean without switching genders, .....?

 

Actually I find this misogyny. That women not appreciating PIV when you do is outraging you so much. 😛 

 

So we don't. So what is the big deal? 

 

If you're good with your penis, and getting a woman to enjoy herself reliably, you have nothing to worry about.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not the sexual mechanics, it's the 'all men are selfish in bed' trope which is pissing me off.

If you’re referring to my post, I can only speak for the men I have had PIV sex with.  They are way too small a sample to extrapolate to all men.  You, personally, may be nothing like them whatsoever.

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It is just plain reality. The genders are different. If we switch genders and start talking about women's penises, it isn't going to work. And if we switch genders and anatomy appropriately, observations aren't going to match reality. And if we switch genders and anatomy and observations, we are right back to where we started, with nothing switched.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

It's not to do with anatomy, it's to do with the explicit statements that no men care about getting their partners off. 

When perceptions hijack emotions, it is a good idea to seek and provide exact quotes.

 

Pretty certain that no one said that no men care about getting their partners off.

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anisotrophic

I'm confused because my partner tries to warn me before climaxing -- since he'd rather postpone that until I feel satisfied with calling it a wrap.

And isn't that just a normal considerate thing to do?

He's not crap at sex, he just doesn't have any desire for it. It's not rocket science? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's not to do with anatomy, it's to do with the explicit statements that no men care about getting their partners off. 

Pretty sure no one said this, but say for a moment someone did. It is so absurd and observably false as to not need an answer. Don't see where you're getting all worked up about.

 

To me, it is seeming like you don't like the idea of women not liking PIV. As though we should. At times you've taken it as an accusation against heterosexual men, at other times you've explained the care you take... and no amount of explaining that it is about how women and men climax differently and not about accusations seems to be registering.

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Just now, anisotropic said:

I'm confused because my partner tries to warn me before climaxing -- since he'd rather postpone that until I feel satisfied with calling it a wrap.

And isn't that just a normal considerate thing to do?

He's not crap at sex, he just doesn't have any desire for it. It's not rocket science? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have been with only one asexual, but overall, I think an asexual man's disinterest in chasing a climax works wonders for what women need..... IF they want to have sex at all - another matter. lol

 

For sexual men, many try to postpone a climax. I knew one who liked to climax hard and fast first, then spend some time on me and circle back for a second climax - that worked well too. This is mostly either in the courtship stage or on special occasions where sex is being made a big deal of. But overall, for routine sex, when men start feeling the urge to climax, most will simply proceed instinctively and it doesn't really seem like it is deliberately inconsiderate. More like what they need to do in the moment. My best sexual partner was one whose instinctive acceleration toward a climax almost perfectly matched mine own most times and I usually ended up climaxing because of it. That was one relationship in which PIV RULED.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

...if a man had said to you...

 

"The problem with women - and you may be able to recognize this - is that when the sex gets good, their own need for a climax gets overwhelming and they pretty much "take off" with their thrusts, grinds or whatever they need and have very little ability to focus their actions toward the man. Once that flight is landed, most of them are pretty wiped and if they are getting sex routinely, there is little reason to go above and beyond to stay awake."

 

... how fine would you be with it?

 

There's another generalisation in a nearby post, but I can't be arsed to pull it out.

Very fine, if it were true. Except, women's climaxes rarely leave them wiped the way a man's does. We can have one long climax, a series, one, then pause, then again and all kinds of combinations. It is quite common for a woman to feel alert and interested in more after a climax. And even when not, and we are relaxed and sleepy, it doesn't knock us out with the suddenness a man's climax can. 

 

A good reverse generalization would be a man complaining that women don't understand their need to be left alone to recover for a bit after a climax and it can get pretty jarring to feel attempts at arousal in that time.

 

I wouldn't mind, because it is true how the bodies work. I would note it as something to keep in mind.

 

Fail to see why I'd be offended.

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Do you not register this is a generalisation about all men?

most =/= all

 

and you are free to do as massive a survey as you think will help you deny this. Loads of men will admit it and you'll be avalanched by women who go "yes, this"

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Just now, anamikanon said:

most =/= all

 

and you are free to do as massive a survey as you think will help you deny this. Loads of men will admit it and you'll be avalanched by women who go "yes, this"

And this isn't a conspiracy or accusation or a generalization. It is simply how things are. 

 

And I am now feeling pissed that I have to offer so many explanations to your massive ego taking outrage over a simple observation. Either you understand it or you don't, and you go on an expedition seeking insult to justify your outrage. Not really my temperament to go soothing men pissed by something I said. I help them cope. If I fail, so be it.

 

Dismiss it. It doesn't matter.

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anisotrophic

I think the gender stereotypes are running a bit thick here.

I'm sorry this is a "not all men" moment but I think it's fair that @Telecaster68 is unhappy with the generalizations being made -- I am too.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

And back to an earlier post. For both men and women, there are reasons other than orgasm for having PIV sex.

Allow women to speak for themselves, oh great male!

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anisotrophic

:sigh:

I like to ask my partner for penetrative sex.

But I don't like to identify as a woman anymore. Ah well.

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

If you'll allow men the same privilege.

That privilege was always there. No one denied men like PIV.

 

The subject was that many women don't. And you didn't like that.

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In my narrow experience I’d have to agree that at least the men I’ve known are generally selfish in bed.  The saving grace has been those open to communication and therefore some  adjustment. My lover is the anomaly of the bunch.

 

Separately, I own a Vibrator specifically as I like insertion (PIV) coupled with external stimulus....all women aren’t the same either. 😬

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1 minute ago, Traveler40 said:

In my narrow experience I’d have to agree that at least the men I’ve known are generally selfish in bed.  The saving grace has been those open to communication and therefore some  adjustment. My lover is the anomaly of the bunch.

 

Separately, I own a Vibrator specifically as I like insertion (PIV) coupled with external stimulus....all women aren’t the same either. 😬

Whatever works.

 

I dare say I enjoy that too.

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