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anisotrophic

Shame about seeking & receiving sex

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ryn2
22 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

 

Oh, agreed.

 

Note that this thread started with me feeling guilty/bad/ashamed about my sexuality. I do my best to reassure him, and he does to reassure me. The hurt/guilt hopefully becomes less acute and less frequent over time.

Totally agreed, and I can’t think of anything you’ve said that fits into what I was referring to.  Both you and anamikanon (and your partners, from what you both describe) seem to have found successful ways to empathize over the situation without attacking or feeling attacked personally.

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ryn2
32 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

Just like I felt heard when he told me that he was sorry that I was having such a hard time with sexual frustration.

I think this is the difference.  Maybe I’m reading into it but some posters don’t seem to want/feel heard in this type of sentiment and do seem to want their partners to acknowledge that (part of) the problem is their ace partner’s asexuality.  That turns it from “I’m having a hard time with sexual frustration” into “You make me sexually frustrated.”

 

Perhaps this is partly due to their ace partners making the same mistake - blaming their own overwhelmed feeling on their partner’s orientation or actions.

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ryn2
50 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

But our egos are simply too huge to take it quietly that how we are isn't the perfect answer for someone's needs

Some of this is potentially easier to get past for poly folks, too...  monoamorous people don’t have the very poly sense that it’s fine, normal, and even healthy not to expect to meet all of your needs in - or meet all of the needs of - one person.  For people who don’t think in a poly way, any need they can’t meet/ have met in a single, two-person longterm relationship is going to go unmet forever.  The choice becomes “this relationship, or this need.”  That’s understandably bound to ratchet up both the guilt and the blaming.

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ryn2

Maybe that’s actually where being polyamorous (in a mixed relationship) is most helpful... whether or not you opt to do so, polyamorous you always knows that - if you love your partner and want to continue your relationship, but can no longer tolerate some of your “relationship needs” going met - you can augment your relationship with another one.

 

For monoamorous people, the choice is between “live with some of my needs going permanently unmet, because I love my partner and want to continue this relationship,” or “nuke and pave” - abandon the relationship, find a new partner, and start over.

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Skullery Maid
58 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

That turns it from “I’m having a hard time with sexual frustration” into “You make me sexually frustrated.”

 

This. All of this. 

 

I came to AVEN in 2011 to figure out what was going on. I eventually posted a conversation my partner and I had where I was not understanding why she needed to "be prepared" to have sex and why sometimes that made her "too tired." I got a very succinct and helpful answer from Lucinda... she doesn't really want to have sex and sometimes the anxiety is overwhelming, hence the tired. 

 

Cool. I was eternally grateful for that information because I never would have figured that out on my own. Sounds stupid, but it never occurred to me that she genuinely did not want to have sex. That night I asked my partner if the anticipation turns to anxiety and that turns to being overwhelmed. She said yes. 

 

So, I stayed here. 

 

The information I got over the years was used for one purpose... Understanding. I didn't want to know that she's anxious so I can find a way around the anxious. That's where I think things fall apart for sexuals... Asexuality never stops being a problem to solve. There's an underlying lack of instinctual understanding... We can understand it in our heads but not necessarily our hearts and bodies... and the lack of understanding, coupled with the intense desire for intimacy, seems to create a permanent block for some people. 

 

They can't seem to get that the asexual partner isn't hurting them. It may sound like a distinction without a difference but it's not. Just like how gays getting married doesn't actually hurt conservative folk... I understand that some of them get actual, physical feelings of anger, fear and disgust, but that's their own brain doing that. Same here. My partner is asexual. It is what it is. She's not doing it to me, she just is who she is. A person cannot be hurting you just by being who they are. If your brain feels hurt, you need to change your responses. 

 

It actually is possible to feel loved without sex. It is possible to lay next to your naked partner and not feel like shit. It is possible to listen to your partner talk about sex without getting angry... you just have to do it. 

 

Problem is that damn glimmer of hope that our guts give us... Our guts that say "love comes with sex so if she loves you, it will happen eventually." Then every time it doesn't... anger and resentment. 

 

I hate SPFA right now. I miss the old SPFA. I don't feel like there's a place for me and people who don't think asexuals are deceptive and selfish, and that makes me really sad. I can't imagine going onto a lesbian site and seeing nothing but posts about how manipulative lesbians are. My partner... She learned from my questions that I got from aven. She didn't know. I didn't know. But my goal is always to understand, full stop. Not understand so I can fix it, not understand so I can play therapist... just understand. I want to know my partners. They're welcome to be whoever they are. 

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anisotrophic

I can't tell who you're referring to, @Skullery Maid, if it's me or others.

 

On my part, I'm pretty sick of Apostle making blanket statements, but I don't think I can engage -- his attitudes are generally repugnant to me, he's commonly making statements I find sexist, suggests "it" is an appropriate pronoun, stuff like that.

 

Apostle's partner does not self-identify as asexual, nor has he talked about it with her afaik (and he once panicked when his spouse saw he was on the site!). James also made a lot of blanket statements, but eventually concluded his partner is not asexual (which was nice to eventually see). Tele did some of this too, but eventually concluded the real issue was that his relationship was generally bad. Iron hamster was a goddamn riot, wow.

 

In general cishet men who "diagnose" their partners for them haven't been sounded empathetic about asexuality. That's been my take away.

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Skullery Maid
2 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I can't tell who you're referring to, @Skullery Maid, if it's me or others.

 

I'm general cishet men who "diagnose" their partners for them haven't been sounded empathetic about asexuality. That's been my take away.

Lol no definitely not talking about you. Not really talking about anyone specific, just a vibe. But the deception conversations seem to be forced into threads it doesn't belong in, IMO. 

 

And yeah. Cishet men who diagnose tend to... in my experience... think it's also their right to diagnose solutions. 

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iff

I really wish there were more posts in this thread

 

 

I'd like to read more about relationships that are working well together. Very few relationships are perfect and ups and downs are part of the course. Just because your relationship didn't work out, it doesn't mean that other relationships are hopeless or doomed to failure 

 

Relationships were people have similar attitudes to sex break down too but there are many successful asexual / sexual relationships out there too, they can work and work very well and SPFA needs to hear more about these relationship rather than "can't win, don't try" relationship advice.

 

If I gave up on everything people said I wouldn't succeed in, my day would just be TV, internet and sleep.

 

We need to hear more success stories

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ryn2
41 minutes ago, iff said:

We need to hear more success stories

Very true.  Unfortunately a lot of people who are generally happy don’t find their way to internet forums like those seeking answers to concerning questions do... and if they are here and then end up in happy relationships they spend more time out in the world “relationshipping” and less on the internet.

 

The exception seems to often be the LDR LTR people, maybe since they are still on the internet a lot anyway.  :)

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Skullery Maid
3 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

The exception seems to often be the LDR LTR people, maybe since they are still on the internet a lot anyway.  :)

Is this true? Which mixed couples are interweb based? I had no idea. 😂

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ryn2
15 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Is this true? Which mixed couples are interweb based? I had no idea. 😂

I wasn’t specifically thinking of mixed couples, just happy ones.

 

Also, I may have worded that badly.  What I meant was that it seems as though a greater percentage of people who form happy new irl partnerships vanish off internet forums shortly thereafter than do people who form happy new internet-centric LDRs.

 

I’ve only been here a little over a year so I can’t say whether or not the trend holds true here but I’ve seen it regularly on other boards I frequent.  The irl relationship people carve out more “life” time from their internet time (well, possibly excepting the gamers) and don’t reappear until they hit a rough patch and/or have kids.  The LDR people must multitask since they stick around.

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anamikanon
32 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Is this true? Which mixed couples are interweb based? I had no idea. 😂

We began LDT. That was probably the best time in our relationship. Living together has been nothing like I imagined. I love him, he loves me, sure, but one or the other seems to be hurt in this relationship and I don't like that. 

 

When we were LDR, it was way better, because he was here only in brief spurts, so his visit was over before he was overwhelmed or I was frustrated. Now we seem more distant as an intimate relationship living in the same home, though on non-relationship aspects and companionship we get along superbly.

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user23974865
2 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

suggests "it" is an appropriate pronoun

Wut?..

 

I guess for every possible joke you can make, there really is someone out there who's not joking about it.

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Philip027

Personally, I feel like "it" would be the best possible singular + non-gendered term to use (it's a word everyone is at least familiar with, unlike all that ze/hir/whatever stuff you will only ever see on the internet), but for some reason that I can't comprehend, it's considered offensive whereas "they" is somehow not, even though the latter potentially introduces an extra layer of potential confusion because it's more typically understood as a plural term.  It's just one of those weird language things that I suppose I'll never quite understand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Serran
41 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Personally, I feel like "it" would be the best possible singular + non-gendered term to use (it's a word everyone is at least familiar with, unlike all that ze/hir/whatever stuff you will only ever see on the internet), but for some reason that I can't comprehend, it's considered offensive whereas "they" is somehow not, even though the latter potentially introduces an extra layer of potential confusion because it's more typically understood as a plural term.  It's just one of those weird language things that I suppose I'll never quite understand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Reason it is offensive is because it tends to be what people call inhuman objects. So people feel like less than human if called it. 

 

7 hours ago, Skullery Maid said:

 

 

I hate SPFA right now. I miss the old SPFA. I don't feel like there's a place for me and people who don't think asexuals are deceptive and selfish, and that makes me really sad. I can't imagine going onto a lesbian site and seeing nothing but posts about how manipulative lesbians are. My partner... She learned from my questions that I got from aven. She didn't know. I didn't know. But my goal is always to understand, full stop. Not understand so I can fix it, not understand so I can play therapist... just understand. I want to know my partners. They're welcome to be whoever they are. 

I miss when Martin, Padante, Lady Girl and others were more active. They weren't always happy, but the vibe here used to be more positive and less.. judgemental against aces.

 

Which, you, ana, ani (sorry on mobile typing out your names is a pain so im shortening) have poly in common atm. Which is fine having some poly positive people. But, right now it feels like the only positive mixed ships are poly. We used to have some positive but still mono people around. 

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Philip027
Quote

Reason it is offensive is because it tends to be what people call inhuman objects. So people feel like less than human if called it. 

- "They/them" also refers to inhuman objects a lot of the time

- "Inhuman" does not necessarily mean "inferior" (and honestly it's pretty conceited of humans to think so)

 

So yeah, still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

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ryn2

They and them get used for a broad range of things, living and not, human and not.  It and that tend to be used solely for inanimate objects and “sub-human” living things.  Some people even find “it” offensive when applied to pets.

 

A universally-accepted singular pronoun would be grammatically  nice, though.

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anisotrophic
22 hours ago, iff said:

I'd like to read more about relationships that are working well together. Very few relationships are perfect and ups and downs are part of the course.

I feel bad talking about mine going well, because it seems like I'm really lucky

 

(That is: my partner is romantic and otherwise physically affectionate, his sexuality is just indifferent rather than averse, there's no "gas" in the metaphorical car but also almost no "brakes", & he experiences physical pleasure. And we're really good at communicating, it seems. We were friends first, met via online conversation. Lots of things that seem to make it more likely to work out.)

 

I worry about setting bad expectations for things working out well for others.

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Skullery Maid
57 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I feel bad talking about mine going well, because it seems like I'm really lucky

 

You are lucky, that's true, but your positive experiences, the work you've put in, the ways your personality and mindset contribute to your relationship going well... that's highly relevant information to other people trying to make it work. ^_^

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chandrakirti
On 3/23/2019 at 6:01 PM, anisotrophic said:

I can't tell who you're referring to, @Skullery Maid, if it's me or others.

 

On my part, I'm pretty sick of Apostle making blanket statements, but I don't think I can engage -- his attitudes are generally repugnant to me, he's commonly making statements I find sexist, suggests "it" is an appropriate pronoun, stuff like that.

 

Apostle's partner does not self-identify as asexual, nor has he talked about it with her afaik (and he once panicked when his spouse saw he was on the site!). James also made a lot of blanket statements, but eventually concluded his partner is not asexual (which was nice to eventually see). Tele did some of this too, but eventually concluded the real issue was that his relationship was generally bad. Iron hamster was a goddamn riot, wow.

 

In general cishet men who "diagnose" their partners for them haven't been sounded empathetic about asexuality. That's been my take away.

I've been saying this for over a year now. There's a difference in being here because you have an actual ace partner and because you just have a poor relationship with a sexual partner.

Some folk should learn to move on with their lives and not hang about like a bad smell.

Are there any sites for cuckolded cis het folk? If not, there should be.

 

Refreshing to see the 'positive sides' posted at last.

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Skullery Maid

I don't agree with you and this whole feud makes my stomach turn. I wish you'd stop. 

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Skycaptain

Can you please stay on topic. Thanks, Skycaptain moderator TGA 

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chandrakirti

Sorry, I was only posting your own comment and broadly agreeing with it.

Nobody should feel ashamed for seeking and receiving sex.

 

It's just that there are so many sites, finding the appropriate one where support for the right issue is the most important thing.

Apologies for my colourful vernacular above!

 

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ryn2
On 3/23/2019 at 3:58 PM, anamikanon said:

When we were LDR, it was way better, because he was here only in brief spurts, so his visit was over before he was overwhelmed or I was frustrated.

This actually seems like it would work well for mixed couples in general... but probably only before they know they are mixed.  I’d guess that once they know one partner is ace and the other is sexual the more typical

concerns over not feeling heard, feeling pressured, feeling creepy, etc., would still set in and interfere with both the LD portion and the brief in-person times.

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anamikanon
23 hours ago, ryn2 said:

This actually seems like it would work well for mixed couples in general... but probably only before they know they are mixed.  I’d guess that once they know one partner is ace and the other is sexual the more typical

concerns over not feeling heard, feeling pressured, feeling creepy, etc., would still set in and interfere with both the LD portion and the brief in-person times.

You are probably right, but the separate bedrooms thing also helped us resolve a lot of stress with the mismatch. At least for us, the presence of the other is often a trigger for being very aware of the mismatch.

 

For that matter, he was briefly hurt by me acting distant, I was briefly confused and pressured to act sexual without being in a sexual relationship, etc. We slept apart two nights and are again gold. Well, there is more to it than that, but the general summary is that when the mismatch gets overwhelming, some space really, really helps find ourselves and begin talking from there.

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ryn2

Yeah, I was thinking more that a mixed LDR might be permanently sustainable... but only if the people in it didn’t know.

 

In real life what probably happens is more similar to what happened to you - the LDR goes well, so both partners work to make an in-person relationship a reality, and *then* they discover they have a signifcant incompatibility.

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anisotrophic
2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

the LDR goes well, so both partners work to make an in-person relationship a reality, and *then* they discover they have a signifcant incompatibility

haha yuuuuup

 

But we're super good together in so many other ways! :)

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Traveler40

I think LDR (whether it be defined as separate bedrooms, homes, cities or other) is hugely beneficial to any relationship, mixed or not.  As long as both parties have enough face time, the space can be a rejuvenating benefit.

 

I often joke with my lover about the unstructured future on which we both agree: He would continue to live his life, me mine and us ours.  We have enough flexibility in ways that matter to establish things to our liking.  I like “me time”, he likes his space, and then we seek each other throughout our days.  The only TBD would be health matters and access  - our attorneys could deal with that via directives, but that’s far down the road and assumes life as structured today makes an unexpected and sharp turn left....

 

...which is completely unnecessary.  Things work as is, and we are already LDR. The status quo has all those benefits!  

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warrior

I was abused as a kid, so I totally get it @anisotrophic.

 

I have terrible conflicts about sex and affection. In wanting it, having it, I become both the abuser and the victim at the same time.

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Skullery Maid
1 hour ago, warrior said:

I was abused as a kid, so I totally get it @anisotrophic.

 

I have terrible conflicts about sex and affection. In wanting it, having it, I become both the abuser and the victim at the same time.

Also raises hand. 

 

I have an incredibly hard time expressing any interest in sex unless the other person is equally excited about it. I have a lot of weird issues... though they've definitely lessened with time... but this is probably the biggest remaining residue. I feel like a rapist if I feel any coercion at all. Basically means that I can't be with someone with responsive desire because I'm unable to jumpstart theirs. 

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