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Life on hold - advice needed


Shechina

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Hello friends,

 

I don't know what to do, and would welcome your advice. This is my first post here; I have been thinking about seeking your help for a long time. Please be gentle. The situation is a little complex.

 

I'm a woman in my late 30s, married to a man in his early 40s. We've been married for nearly 14 years, and we have no children. To keep things simple here, I'm going to focus just on the sexual side of our relationship.

 

I had an orthodox religious upbringing, and had no sex before marriage, although it was something I hoped for and looked forward to. My husband had one sexual relationship before marriage, so I hoped that all would be well.

 

On our wedding night, disappointingly, nothing happened. Nothing continued to happen for several weeks. When we eventually tried, after much cajoling from me, intimacy was ok, but intercourse didn't seem to be possible. After a few months of nothing, I went to the doctor - I was diagnosed with primary vaginismus. I blamed myself for our lack of sex, and went through various counseling/talking treatments that the doctors thought would help me. This went on for about 5 years, but didn't help. Eventually, I asked for physiotherapy, which succeeded in fixing the problem in a matter of weeks. Now physically willing and able to have intercourse, I tried again to get my husband to engage with me. He didn't, for another 4 years. In that time, we talked, I begged, cried, and I sought out counselors for us, and for him. He insisted that he wasn't gay. His counselors decided that he had social anxiety. He had his testosterone checked, and it was normal, he just wasn't interested in sex.

 

We'd go on holiday, I'd take nice things along to have sensual fun in the bedroom, but nothing would happen. Birthdays and anniversaries came and went, and nothing happened. Every night I would get a hug, but nothing more. I started to feel like a teddy bear by night, and a housekeeper by day. The ongoing sexual rejection started to affect me - I didn't feel attractive, I started feeling depressed, I became more withdrawn. The only time we did anything intimate in the bedroom, I was the one to initiate it. I asked, but he couldn't tell me what to do to turn him on, or what he would enjoy - he has no understanding of his own sexuality, and has never taken the opportunity to explore it.

 

As our 10th anniversary approached, I felt more than ever the desire to have children. I encouraged him to engage more with me, and after 9.5 years we finally consummated our marriage. Sex started to happen; I kept initiating, and once a month things would happen if I was lucky. After a couple of years, we still were not pregnant. I was referred to a consultant, and started having regular scans and taking fertility drugs. These adversely affected my hormones; despite a strict diet, I piled on 10kgs in six months.

 

Having tried everything I could, and had every test available, my last chance to get pregnant seemed to be IVF. To take that route, my doctor insisted that I first had to lose the weight that their medicine had made me put on. I came off the medicine, and started to diet and exercise seriously. However, I didn't feel that my husband wanted children, and I didn't feel emotionally supported in this journey. I stopped initiating sex, and waited to see what would happen. The sex stopped entirely. My husband didn't miss it, but I did.

 

About nine months ago, I introduced the idea that he might be asexual, and pointed him to AVEN. He read through some of the articles, and agreed that he may well be asexual. I asked him about sexual desire, and he told me that he "had never had desire for me or for anyone else."

 

That last statement broke me.

 

Whatever little sex we have had was done out of duty, not desire, and that's hard to take. I also can't understand why he entered into marriage, promising all the while that we would have a sexual relationship, when he clearly didn't want one.

 

We've now been celibate for 10 months. I have almost given up on the thought of having children - as much as I would love to have a child, it's not something I can do alone, and I wouldn't want to bring a child into a marriage like this; after all these years, it feels like a sham. I feel needed, and loved in a platonic way, but not desired or physically appreciated. I'm sexually frustrated, and hopelessly inexperienced, with little self-confidence in my own ability to perform having never really been validated. I feel used and betrayed, and I feel that my life is going to waste. While I have remained faithful, I'm starting to feel drawn to other people, because I yearn so much to be romantically involved in a real, adult relationship.

 

Despite all this, I don't feel angry, but I do feel sad. If he is really asexual, I can't blame him for being the way he is, and I couldn't hope to alter his sexual orientation.

 

We have invested 15 years in this relationship. We have a home together, and a circle of friends. I know he loves me in his own way, and I love him. However, I don't feel married. I feel alone, and sexually starved. I'm running out of time to have children, and I can't imagine the rest of my life living in this sexless state. I want to be loved, and to have someone make love to me because he wants to, not because he feels he has too.

 

Please can you advise me? What can I do?

Many thanks x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Shechina said:

 

Despite all this, I don't feel angry, but I do feel sad. If he is really asexual, I can't blame him for being the way he is, and I couldn't hope to alter his sexual orientation.

 

We have invested 15 years in this relationship. We have a home together, and a circle of friends. I know he loves me in his own way, and I love him. However, I don't feel married. I feel alone, and sexually starved. I'm running out of time to have children, and I can't imagine the rest of my life living in this sexless state. I want to be loved, and to have someone make love to me because he wants to, not because he feels he has too.

 

Please can you advise me? What can I do?

Many thanks x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like you already know what you want. You want a sexual, sensual, romantic relationship and children. You can still have that, but only if you take yourself out of the current relationship soon. You have different needs as far as children and sex go. You wont change him if hes never desired sex. At most he can give you more sex without desire, but he sounds more averse than neutral or positive to it, so even that is unlikely. 

 

15 years ago very few people knew about asexuality. He likely never examined himself since the default is heterosexual and he was into women. Unfortunately you arent compatible. 

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You want children and it doesn't seem like it will happen in the current relationship. I think breaking up might be best as he doesn't seem interested in having children 

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The relationship doesn't sound like it's working for you (and likely not working for him, since you are unhappy).  You can have a home and friends without staying in this relationship; many people keep their friends after divorce.  

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@Shechina the most painful point in your story, to me, is how you're nearing the end of fertility & understandably stressed about the kids thing. It's unrelated to asexuality, and it's sounding like a mixed story -- you talk about trying hard, but not of him being supportive -- were you never actually on the same page there, either?

 

If you have kids with your current partner, you'll be entangling yourself further. On the other hand, I don't know how realistic it is to go out dating & seeking another partner to be a parent with you at this point. (One issue is that it would cast a serious shadow on any attempt to date.) You need to make serious efforts and decisions now, if you want to do kids, but I can't say what's right for you.

 

Which brings most striking point in your story -- if you confronted and confirmed asexuality nine months ago, why has it taken that long to decide you have a crisis point? Were you holding out hope for something, trying counseling, dealing with unrelated issues...?

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50 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

@Shechina

Which brings most striking point in your story -- if you confronted and confirmed asexuality nine months ago, why has it taken that long to decide you have a crisis point? Were you holding out hope for something, trying counseling, dealing with unrelated issues...?

He wasn't sure, just thought he might be asexual. I wanted to give him time to work things out, and we agreed that he would find a counselor to discuss it with, but he's not done that. I've buried myself in work, and time has passed by. There's also the shame and upheaval of divorce, and a fear of being alone for the rest of my life. I was not sexually active before I got married, and so I don't really know how to function in that world - the experience I hoped would come through marriage hasn't happened. Instead, I've had 15 years of rejection, and now haven't got the confidence to go and date. I keep hoping that he will realize that he has to do something, because this is not a problem I can solve for him.

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1 hour ago, Shechina said:

I keep hoping that he will realize that he has to do something, because this is not a problem I can solve for him.

What are you hoping he will do?  The “only” problem he has right now (in this arena; obviously he may have others in parts of his life not discussed above) is that his wife may not want to stay married... and that’s not a problem he can solve.

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4 hours ago, Shechina said:

He wasn't sure, just thought he might be asexual. I wanted to give him time to work things out, and we agreed that he would find a counselor to discuss it with, but he's not done that. I've buried myself in work, and time has passed by. There's also the shame and upheaval of divorce, and a fear of being alone for the rest of my life. I was not sexually active before I got married, and so I don't really know how to function in that world - the experience I hoped would come through marriage hasn't happened. Instead, I've had 15 years of rejection, and now haven't got the confidence to go and date. I keep hoping that he will realize that he has to do something, because this is not a problem I can solve for him.

The "problem" is you two arent compatible in needs. He cant be made to want sex if he doesnt. He cant be made to want kids if he doesnt. So what problem are you hoping he can solve? Being able to tell you that bluntly? 

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You lack confidence in your ability to start over and hopefully meet someone more compatible one day.  By staying in this type of marriage so long,  you’ve ingrained these doubts and insecurities.  Perhaps personal counseling for you would help to build the confidence you so clearly need!

 I can appreciate that you love him- but your orientation & human needs are very different from his, and always will be!  Best wishes to you.

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If it's sex, any mixed relationship faces a limited, somewhat obvious set of options: (1) Sex with each other, (2) sex with others, (3) celibacy, (4) breakup.

 

(1 and 2 can be combined. Realistically, 2 often becomes poly & you fall in love with another person.)

 

But does he even want kids? That's another major issue. If he doesn't, I don't recommend doing it together with him. It's a lot of work and it'll just become another thing you're resentful about.

 

In which case @SusannaC is right -- don't let events undermine your self confidence! I think: take #4, get out, you're done, you'll figure out how to have sex. Worst case scenario is you don't get someone to be intimate with -- which is where you are anyway, right?

 

If he does sincerely want kids with you, I think you would need to have a frank discussion with your partner about these options, and which he's okay with. Draw a line on what you'll accept and are willing to do. Is he willing to allow #2, raise kids with you while letting you take lovers -- and are you willing to have that? If not, probably take #4 -- from what you've written -- I don't know that you can make #1 work enough to be happy with it indefinitely & #3 is unfair to you.

 

I don't think you should be waiting for something to get better.

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On 2/17/2019 at 2:10 PM, Serran said:

The "problem" is you two arent compatible in needs. He cant be made to want sex if he doesnt. He cant be made to want kids if he doesnt. So what problem are you hoping he can solve? Being able to tell you that bluntly? 

 

  @ryn2  The 'problem' I was referring to was for him to identify exactly where he stands - there are different degrees of asexuality. He might be anywhere on that spectrum, and he might not be on it at all. He might just be avoidant, he might have some kind of depression. He might be frightened of parenthood, and that could be putting him of sex. When I asked him, he hadn't done enough thinking about his about his sexual identity and needs to know for sure. While I will be supportive, he really is the only one who can figure himself out. I would like to know exactly how he feels, and how he identifies, before acting - my preference would be to repair our marriage, not break it, but that is only possible if there is hope that we can get sexual intimacy back into it.

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

It seems a shame that you've gone through all that- it must have been very stressful.

Maybe it's time to evaluate what you want for the rest of your life.

If ad you say you would like children, then maybe a partner who shares your sexuality and who wants a family- someone you can love - would be best. If not you can have your own children if you have good family support around you. 

I say this frequently, but can't see any other way out for you, especially as you're quite rightly hurt by the comment made- don't waste any more of your life on this relationship- time's precious.

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Shechina, I don't know where you live, but in the US and most European countries, there is  no "shame" in divorce.  What would be a shame would be for you to  waste more years waiting for him to tell you what you need to hear.  In the meantime, he doesn't have to seriously discuss whether to keep the relationship or not, and you don't have to do anything for yourself.   And should  he be willing to have children with you, you will be adding children to a dysfunctional marriage, which will eventually collapse.  

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Dear OP

I'm sorry you are in this situation.  

 

I would separate the two problems children and your sex life.    

 

Children: Does he not want children, or does he not want to have the sex that is required in order to have children.  These are two very different things.  Wanting children really isn't something a couple can "compromise" on - they are such a major change to your lives, that neither choice is fair to the person who didn't want it. 

 

Sex: If you had children, would you be happy without an active sex life? If not, then you will both be better off divorcing - not only will you be happier with  someone else, but he will be happier not feeling that he is responsible for your unhappiness. 

 

BTW, it does't matter *why* he doesn't want sex, that just seems to be the reality. 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you want children and he doesn't, there's your dealbreaker.

 

However, if he would like children, except for the sex it takes to make them, you can have children in other ways - IVF, affair, adoption....

 

Without the dealbreaker and with a good relationship apart from the sex, you can also consider other options like opening up your marriage. Polyamory or heck, even paying someone for sex - why not. It could be a good option to experience sex without worrying about other aspects like where to find a suitable partner, feeling unattractive, worrying about impact on marriage if you end up having to cut it off, etc. Not to mention professionals (I imagine) would likely to be good at it and you'd have some experience under your belt and feel less vulnerable about seeking sex.

 

I think it is safe to assume that sex with your husband isn't going to happen short of pressuring him into it and it isn't going to be satisfactory anyway. So if he isn't open to the idea of you finding other partners, that may be a dealbreaker too. But it is worth talking about. While it varies from person to person, there are asexuals who are not just accepting but supportive of their partners finding sexual pleasure. I am married to one.

 

On 2/17/2019 at 3:25 PM, Shechina said:

I was not sexually active before I got married, and so I don't really know how to function in that world - the experience I hoped would come through marriage hasn't happened. Instead, I've had 15 years of rejection, and now haven't got the confidence to go and date.

Sexual attractiveness is not an innate quality. It is often a direct function of our interest in attracting someone. This can be learned with life experience. No one is born knowing how to attract people, or the advertising industry would be dead in the water. There is no reason why you can't learn too, regardless of whether you have learned in the past.

 

You are going to have to completely disengage your measure of sexual attractiveness from what your husband finds attractive - or you have to accept that there is no such thing as attractive women in the world at all. Very often, feeling undesired makes us feel undesirable. This is a perception caused by our situation and not accurate. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that given how much time we have beat our heads on the walls of asexuality, we may turn out to have surprisingly effective skills at attracting if turned on people who are interested in sex.

 

Think about it. You managed to convince an asexual to have sex with you, even if not frequently or satisfactorily. Someone who sees no one as sexually desirable. How can you possibly be unattractive? If you could do that to an asexual, you'd blow a sexual out of the water easy. We people already want to have sex. That's 99.99% of the battle already won. 😛

 

On 2/17/2019 at 3:25 PM, Shechina said:

I keep hoping that he will realize that he has to do something, because this is not a problem I can solve for him.

You may end up having to accept that he won't do anything about it. There is no motivation and your sexual frustration clearly doesn't matter enough to him. And frankly, there isn't a whole lot he can do about it if he is averse.

 

That said, it is possible that he doesn't realize how important sex is to you. My ace used to think that the merits of sex were overstated and the iffy sex we had was all there was to it. He genuinely didn't think I meant it when I said the lack of sex upset me or that I needed it. He heard that I wanted it and saw it as pressure or a demand rather than something I genuinely needed for my well being.

 

Even after he understood that it was important to me, he kept underestimating how important or simply couldn't believe it could matter that much. He simply had no frame of reference. Sex had never been important to him, why would it be such a huge deal for me? It took a lot of explaining before he understood.

 

Other aces on the forum too have variously described not believing sex was as important as sexuals claimed. Even if he can't do a lot about it, for you to have productive conversations about a mutually satisfying solution, you will need him to understand where you are coming from and learn to see that it is a legitimate need in a relationship and you aren't making it up. There REALLY is a problem to address.

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  • 7 months later...

Thank you all for your comments, insights, and support. 

 

Here's an update...

 

Since my husband told me that he had no desire for me or anyone else, I promised to give him a year to seek help and guidance, and determine if he really did identify as asexual. I encouraged him to find a counsellor, suggested friendly religious leaders he could talk to (who would be sympathetic and non-judgemental, I know a few good ones), and provided him with as much space and support as he needed. I even suggested that we open the marriage, to allow other partners in, to enable me to discreetly meet my own needs while still being a good wife to him, but he didn't want that.  In that year, he did not seek help, he did not speak to anyone for advice, and intimacy between us stopped entirely. He became increasingly rude, aggressive, disrespectful in the way he spoke to me. He withdrew from society, talking only to a couple of friends, and not tolerating guests in the house.

It was a lonely time. 

 

In June, when 12 months had passed, I took him out to dinner in a quiet restaurant, and asked him for divorce. He agreed. After 14 years of marriage, we are parting amicably. The legal process is achingly slow, but hopefully will be complete by the end of the year. It is the right decision, but it is still emotionally difficult. There are things I have learned; I will share them here so that others don't have to go through the same pain...

 

1) The thing I regret most is not ending it sooner. I knew there was an issue within months of our wedding, but assumed that it was my fault. It wasn't. Because I have waited so long, I will probably never be able to have children. I married young, a virgin bride, and now I'm turning 40 still with no sexual experience and feel totally naïve. If you find yourself in the same situation, as a sexual person in a hopelessly sexless marriage that you don't want, leave. Leave now, and don't look back. You deserve to be happy. 

 

2) Once I asked for divorce, my husband got happier. The pressure of trying to be something he was not had been making him emotionally confused and distressed. Honesty is helping him to come to terms with his identity.

 

3) We are parting as friends. Yes, it is sad, but we will probably end up closer friends after divorce than we were as a couple, since the pressure to be intimate will have gone. 

 

4) Asexuality can be used as grounds for divorce under the category of 'unreasonable behaviour'. If/when faultless divorce is passed into law, this won't be an issue anymore.

 

5) If you are asexual, and thinking about getting married, please come out to your partner before you pop the big question. Be sure that an asexual marriage is what you both want. If your partner is sexual, and you still want to be with them, consider having an open marriage, so that your partner's physical needs can be accommodated. It's only fair that both partners are clear on what is being promised; all sexual identities count, and sexual needs must be met just as asexual needs do.

 

Thanks again, and all the best - I wish you happiness and fulfilment in your lives x

 

 

 

 

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@Shechina, thank you so much for the update.  I am happy for you.  You are very wise- and still young.  Enjoy and make the most of your new beginning !!!!

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@ShechinaI think your advice will be helpful to others.  Too often people stay in relationships to keep their partner happy - not realizing that their partner may be unhappy as well.  With the very best of intentions by both, a badly mismatched relationship continues.

 

I'm glad you have found a solution. You are still young, so enjoy your life. 

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