...

[Lord Jade Cross]

.

 

 

[DuskFire]

How do you know it's not real?

And doesn't "real" mean different things to different people?

There's no real way to tell what is real.

Your argument reminds me of Plato (or was it Socrates?) who described shadows on the wall.

I wonder (I put aside my religious bias when discussing these things and look at it from a clear point of view) if there has to be one thing that is real to perceive everything else as real?

[Yeast]

I tend to think we are a combination of the basic personality we were born with and everything else is what we have experienced since then. So part of us is defined in terms of what we have seen and heard and this rests on a foundation of the responses to pain and pleasure we emulated as infants. It is theorized an infant sees the world as simply an extension of itself. Only as what might be called an ego evolves does it begin to become apparent there are other things in the world than just itself. I've always considered sex to be a kind of regression to an infantile state. I've heard of a loss of self under these circumstances. This supports the notion that if the ego is impeded one no longer experiences the world as something separate. Some mind altering drugs supposedly have the same effects. I remember when Paul died. This was Paul McCartney of the Beatles. John decided to have a bit of facetious fun and talked of Paul's experience with LSD in terms of him dying. Regarding actual death I've seen a lot of it. I don't think much about it though. When somebody dies they simply no longer exist to me. I'm agnostic so I don't worry about heaven and hell and so many things that seem utterly irrational to me. Some say when people die they live on in other people's memories. However what I knew about somebody will never actually be them so the dead don't truly exist to me. In a few hours I'll experience something that's probably similar to death. I'll fall asleep. It used to bother me a decade ago but once again, I no longer think about it. I just anticipate tomorrow. If it never comes, well, that's life...

[Gloomy]

I believe freewill is an illusion, and we are essentially organic robots programmed by our brains. When we die our brains shut down forever and there is no afterlife. That might sound depressing to some people, but personally I'm at peace with all this(to be honest living forever in an afterlife sounds boring to me anyway).

[Galactic Turtle]

I have nothing valuable to contribute to this conversation other than that this sounds like the long speeches in the first season of the TV show True Detective. Great series. 10/10 would recommend. 

 

[video contains murder scene photos]

 

[Guest]

1. You don't define real and not real, which makes your theory useless. That's like me saying "humans are zornobs and not calflogs because of our floutendozens." 

 

2. You're incorrect about that whole language/person thing. Sense of self has been a key component of human psychology and philosophy. 

[firewallflower]

Well, then.

 

*casually continues nonexistence*

 

But how do we define reality in the first place? 🙂

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Oddly enough I read an article back in 2011 (hopefully when I find it, I'll post it).

The research involved was a mix of quantum physics and psychology...odd bedfellows! The conclusion was that there's no such thing as a personality, just various elements working together to produce a composite.

That's not unsurprising, as at base level, we're trillions of single cells working together.

[no-longer-in-use]

Does it really make much difference either way? The way I see it is, we're here, and we stay here until we die, and after that, we don't know what happens, but until then, we're stuck here.

 

It really doesn't change anything if we're simulations or "fake" or whatever. Life is still life. The earth will keep spinning. Theories like this one are useless in my opinion.

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

That's what the Buddha said. Wise words IMHO.... But nice to see what we've worked out about it all so far.

[Lord Jade Cross]

.

[Howard]

I checked out this thread because I've been checking out Youtube videos on the not self. From what I understand, things like personality, self-esteem, self-confidence, basicaly everything that compromises the ego is just an illusion. It's an illusion because we see them with our senses that are flawed. It's not a sense of self, but a sense of non-self we should cultivate. I think it's because within the 'self', there are desires that will eventualy cause us to suffer. With the 'self', Jade Cross would be totaly right about us being zombies. Therefore, identifying what is not us helps us not to have desire and therefore save us pain onto ourselves and others. Eventualy, if you got down that path far enough, I assume that you'd just be nothing, or one with the universe, or something along the lines, but it would be good because you would not suffer and be capable of joyful compassion toward those who have not reached your state of mind. I could be all wrong, I only checked out a couple of Youtube videos on this.

In as far as the exercise you're suggesting, it reminds me of the exercise of the veil of ignorance. It takes it a step further, you not only knowing your name but not knowing yourself and how you would like the world to be. Some says it's a good exercise to have an idea of how a fair world should be.

[Sexual Ally]

If ego provides us a sense of self, it can often be wildly distorted, esp if we are holding on to conscious/unconscious beliefs that frame everything we do and limit our lives (if those messages are negative).

 

I'm curious to (safely) try psychedelics and eventually experience "ego death,", where one is seeing the world absent of all ego.  For many this is incredibly scary and feels like a "bad trip",  some apparently feel like they're dying bc they've no sense of self to hold on to.  But for some it's been a life-altering experience, reporting that seeing the world "ego free" later helped them realize all the false prisms/assumptions they'd helplessly lived with all their lives.

 

So disclaimer, i'm not encouraging drug use, I'm not encouraging entering into this bc you're depressed or want to escape.  bc that is said to def lead to a negative trip.  You need to have a positive intention going in, not looking for an escape.  Michael Pollar's "How to Change Your Mind" is a good resource, not  on psychedelics, but on the mind overall.  And there are safe ways to do these things (like always testing first, for purity, testing kits are easily available online), beginning w a microdose, having a trusted friend watch over you, etc.

 

I know I prob sound like an expert on this but I'm not, there's a YouTube channel that's all about harm reduction in psychedelics and have been watching his vids for a few months.  I haven't done anything yet, am still doing research, and I'm in semester, so now isn't the time.

[Lord Jade Cross]

.

[what the face]

We are all living our own dreams.  It's what brains do.  

Whenever we "live" in the past or the future, we are not in the present.

The sensual present is the only reality.

The regret and worry, gossip and envy, the presumptions and speculation all take us into

our heads outside the shared present, into our separate dreams.

 

That event/crisis/trauma that happened yesterday or 10 years ago is not happening NOW.

All empathy to those still processing their event/crisis/trauma, must be stated.

Still, returning to the NOW brings healing from suffering the past.

 

The future, including our death isn't happening while we are still alive.

Forward thinking is dreaming and fantasy.

A fair pastime sure, but not a way to live in the present.

 

Of course my words are but echoes and reflections of timeless principles.

 

resume the mantra

follow the breath

return to center