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i don't want to be called a "woman"?


PaxCallow

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this will probably be short but i thought i'd get it off my chest. i've kind of been realizing lately that i don't really feel comfortable being addressed as a "woman" and i also don't really feel comfortable being addressed as a "girl." it might have to do with my age (i'm 21 now)? but i don't really know. i like my pronouns and all, and i don't really feel like enby or null feels right for me, but i don't really feel like a woman either, so i'm not really sure what to call myself. i totally realize that this is a journey unique to everyone, but does anyone else deal with something similar? what do you call yourself?

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Semiterrestrial Scientist

Same. I was AFAB but I don’t feel super comfortable being called a “young woman” or girl and stuff. I don’t rly care about my pronouns though. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with being called a “young man” or boy either though. I just identify as agender cause I don’t feel one or the other. Best of luck to you 🍀

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Loofah B. Shampoo

I don't personally have issues with pronouns, but I've always referred to female identifying folks as 'ladies.' It's a bit formal, but I can understand not liking certain words. If you don't like hearing female terms, maybe try coming up with fun words that aren't unique to any one gender for your friends to use. 

Person, chad, punk, dude/guy in the gender neutral sense. When in doubt, I always default to "my homie(s)"

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There seems to always have been a problem in english with words for female persons.  Lady ... somehow implies lots of lace and and a purebred dog.  Woman seems better fit to older women.  Girl can be someone 5 in pigtails.   

 

For men its been simpler, where the boy -> man transition happens at some point of adulthood, usually 18. 

 

Don't get me started on "girlfriend / boyfriend" when applied to adults. 

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For some reason I don't like the word lady or worse, ladies, but it's not as bad as men being called gents! 😊

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I can relate. I just use words like "person", "human" or "child" instead of gendered terms most of the time.

Using adjectives in copular constructions instead of attributive adjectives is also a great way of avoiding gendered words: "You are very kind" vs "You are a very kind girl".

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So, What Is A Woman?

 

If you will PM me with an e-mail address, I'll send you a Minority Rights Activists questionnaire which is designed to break right open a person's understanding of what they mean when they say 'woman' - by surfacing all their hidden asumptions so that the person can think about  them.

 

And are these women:  women of the Kurdish Self-Defece Forces?;  Women combat pilots of the Red Air Force in the 'Great Patriotic War'; Women of the Israeli Defence Forces?; Women soldiers of the Viet Cong & Viet Minh? The Swedish Female Viking warrior who was assumed for ages to have been a man, but was actully a womn?  Thhe women of Sparta in Classicla Geece?  The Sarmation woen, upon whom the ridiculous nonsense about the Amazons was based?   They'd eat us all for breakfast - and no, they weren't lesbians, and yes, they did have babies, and yes, it must have been them who did the breast-feeding. 

 

Gender is socially-constructed, per culture, per social class, per religious affiiliation, so maybe we just have to refuse to play it like it's written, if we don't like how it's written just now.

 

May I suggest also that you look at the book 'New Female Tribes', where four very different contemporary ways of 'being a woman', based on thousands of surveys across the world, are identifed.  That's where the term 'Alpha Female' on my own AVEN profile comes from. 

 

The differences from typical male managers which make Alpha Females so very effective in organisations is the Alphas' concern for the other person, and their lack of aggression and of teritoriality, and their honesty about the performance of their units (not needing to hide defects in order to prop up their egos),  They use 'Theory Y', not 'Theory X', as their touchstone in leading their teams, too.  They are Assertive (my goodness, aren't they just!) but not Aggressive.   I succeded in male-dominated, engineering based industries, and that was not in support roles, and not by 'sleeping with' male colleagues either.  The only two things a man can do that I can't are, standing up to pee neatly without a special cup and tube, and something unmentionable to me, given my childhood.  I learnt both sets of skills as an adult - no man about in my life to do that stuff for me, and my mother was, as I discovered, pretty useless at her stuff - and I can use both 'sets of tools' - and when I use' 'mens' stuff' in public, I deliberately wear a dress or a skirt.  So, I do genderQueer by attitude, by posture, by gait, and by behaviour (verbal & non-verbal) - more than by dressing ambiguously - though I'll do that when I feel like it - dressing changes nothing on its own, I think.

 

So, I'm 'feminine', if that's what one likes to call it ... but there's nothing 'pink and pretty' about me, and I like my body, although it's not sexually-responsive at all - I'm just not a member of one of the other three 'New Female Tribes'.  And I can care, and nurse, and nuture, and I have done for several years for each of my belovèd long-term partners (RIP, each) as they have fallen ill and died. 

 

I suupose I'm saying:  if you change your view of what's possible, then you can go and stuff that on them.  They won't like it, but that's what comes of their having sexist expectations.  And you'll find plenty of women who won't like you for it either.  Wusses, all!

 

🙂 Paula

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, PaxCallow said:

this will probably be short but i thought i'd get it off my chest. i've kind of been realizing lately that i don't really feel comfortable being addressed as a "woman" and i also don't really feel comfortable being addressed as a "girl." it might have to do with my age (i'm 21 now)? but i don't really know. i like my pronouns and all, and i don't really feel like enby or null feels right for me, but i don't really feel like a woman either, so i'm not really sure what to call myself. i totally realize that this is a journey unique to everyone, but does anyone else deal with something similar? what do you call yourself?

I’m biologically male and non-binary and was having a discussion about this with a friend earlier today 🙂

 

I don’t like being called a “man” (it feels wrong), but I don’t mind being called a “guy”.

 

I don’t relate to being a man, woman, boy or girl. I actually think “girl” is the closest (but still far off), which was a surprise as my gender expression is male, I’m comfortable with any pronouns and I don’t want to change my male body in any way! 🙂

 

I luckily have “guy” to go to which works for me socially.

 

So you’re not alone in having these thoughts. Good luck working this through 🙂

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I don't like woman either, it carries such a heavy baggage with it. Lady isn't bad though, because it implies sophistication.

 

I'm sophisticated.

 

(And there was one time I was mistaken for a 'sir' which threw me off guard but made me smile just a teeny bit. Still sophisticated.)

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On 2/13/2019 at 12:17 PM, uhtred said:

There seems to always have been a problem in english with words for female persons.  Lady ... somehow implies lots of lace and and a purebred dog.  Woman seems better fit to older women.  Girl can be someone 5 in pigtails.   

 

For men its been simpler, where the boy -> man transition happens at some point of adulthood, usually 18. 

 

Don't get me started on "girlfriend / boyfriend" when applied to adults. 

I can understand how you feel uhtred, but I think that it is more the way certain words are used nowadays. "Lady" historically has referred to behavior rather than to the female sex in general, and it's counterpart for males is "gentleman". They were meant to denote people who are well mannered, polite, and courteous. Even without the titles, "ladies" and "gentlemen" will always exist and we should all strive to be one or the other. Some of us, especially in this group here, have had the good fortune of having been both at different times during their lives. :)

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In the 70s, young women liked being called "women" because it distinguished them as being mature and independent, after being called "girls".   It didn't denote being any particular age, other than being an adult, and it didn't carry any barrage.   It still doesn't to me.   That was when young women started not liking to be called "ladies".  

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On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:59 AM, PaxCallow said:

this will probably be short but i thought i'd get it off my chest. i've kind of been realizing lately that i don't really feel comfortable being addressed as a "woman" and i also don't really feel comfortable being addressed as a "girl." it might have to do with my age (i'm 21 now)? but i don't really know. i like my pronouns and all, and i don't really feel like enby or null feels right for me, but i don't really feel like a woman either, so i'm not really sure what to call myself. i totally realize that this is a journey unique to everyone, but does anyone else deal with something similar? what do you call yourself?

I'm a masculine afab nonbinary person and I don't like most "feminine" terms.  For some odd reason I can tolerate she/her pronouns and the word female in the medical sense.  That's about it on that side of the spectrum.  As for the other half of the binary, I only use the term "masculine" to describe myself.  I'm also okay when someone uses bro, dude, and guys.  Other than that I just want to be called by my birth name or nick name.  Prefixes make me cringe, so none of that Ms. Ma'am, Sir, Mr., etc.  I really wish people wouldn't use those words anymore.  It's suppose to convey respect, but it's just the opposite for those like me.

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I am cis-female and identify as genderfluid. This is probably gonna sound SO WEIRD but when I visit my mum and her dog ends up sitting on the couch with us, she calls us “all girls together” which is very sweet, and my mum is my hero, but I HATE the word “girl”. Where I used to work, if customers saw me from behind they’d often say, “excuse me mate” (I have short hair) then would be so embarrassed when I turned round and had female physical features (ie breasts). I was NEVER offended by this, and on most occasions told them so. I’m not bothered about she/her pronouns, and mate/dude/buddy is also fine. And if you mistake me for a bloke from a distance that’s okay too. 🍰☺️

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2 hours ago, HomeBirdJen said:

I am cis-female and identify as genderfluid. This is probably gonna sound SO WEIRD but when I visit my mum and her dog ends up sitting on the couch with us, she calls us “all girls together” which is very sweet, and my mum is my hero, but I HATE the word “girl”. Where I used to work, if customers saw me from behind they’d often say, “excuse me mate” (I have short hair) then would be so embarrassed when I turned round and had female physical features (ie breasts). I was NEVER offended by this, and on most occasions told them so. I’m not bothered about she/her pronouns, and mate/dude/buddy is also fine. And if you mistake me for a bloke from a distance that’s okay too. 🍰☺️

I'm a little confused as to how you identify yourself as cis and genderfluid at the same time.  It's always one or the other from what I've observed.  I've never met a cis person who fluctuates, or would even claim a non-cis identity.  No disrespect by any means, but isn't that a contradiction?

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Replying to Pax Callow

Well, I am more than twice your age, and I have NEVER liked being referred to or thought of as a woman, girl, female.  I also don’t really think of myself as female ( or male, either).  The few people I have shared this with seemed to think it is strange to feel this way or were completely unable to understand.  

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I feel the same! I'm AFAB but I don't enjoy labeling myself as female. I'm not sure what my gender is. I bind my chest as well because I HATE having breasts. 

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1 hour ago, serkonan said:

I feel the same! I'm AFAB but I don't enjoy labeling myself as female. I'm not sure what my gender is. I bind my chest as well because I HATE having breasts. 

I'm also afab, but I can only tolerate she/her pronouns and the term female in the clinical sense.  Everything else is off limits.  I don't enjoy being treated as a woman because I'm nonbinary.  It's a very strange, uncomfortable interaction when anyone decides to treat me the same as my feminine female associations.  I also bind.  Can't leave the house if I don't.  Without a binder I feel naked lol

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7 minutes ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

I'm also afab, but I can only tolerate she/her pronouns and the term female in the clinical sense.  Everything else is off limits.  I don't enjoy being treated as a woman because I'm nonbinary.  It's a very strange, uncomfortable interaction when anyone decides to treat me the same as my feminine female associations.  I also bind.  Can't leave the house if I don't.  Without a binder I feel naked lol

I totally understand that! I've had people mistake me for a man and it doesn't bother me at all. I secretly enjoy people being confused about my gender. I'd rather be gender less - I'm not sure what that would be called! 

 

I don't bind often but I'm trying to do it more. 

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13 minutes ago, serkonan said:

I totally understand that! I've had people mistake me for a man and it doesn't bother me at all. I secretly enjoy people being confused about my gender. I'd rather be gender less - I'm not sure what that would be called! 

 

I don't bind often but I'm trying to do it more. 

I pass as male daily, even though that's not my goal.  However, that bothers me because I'm not a man, I'm just a masculine person.  I'd rather people not be able to tell what I am, so they just don't gender me at all.  I've experienced that and I like when people just don't say anything and I'm treated like a generic person without prefixes or most gender specific language.  Ma'am, Miss, ladies, girl, woman, Sir, Mr., etc. is just unnecessary and annoying.

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I've been mistaken as a male on several occasions..though there was one instance where it really offended me, the way it was presented.  A rude man was staring at me as soon as I walked into a store and went as far as to follow me down an aisle to ask me if I was a female. 

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41 minutes ago, LonesomeCrow said:

I've been mistaken as a male on several occasions..though there was one instance where it really offended me, the way it was presented.  A rude man was staring at me as soon as I walked into a store and went as far as to follow me down an aisle to ask me if I was a female. 

That's creepy as fk and rude as hell.  I would've told him that's an inappropriate question and it's none of his damn business.  WTF

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1 hour ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

That's creepy as fk and rude as hell.  I would've told him that's an inappropriate question and it's none of his damn business.  WTF

I never even looked directly at him when I walked in, hell I didn't even notice him until I turned around and he was right there. My mom saw him follow me.  I was really shoken up with anger and said "you  know,  that's  a  fucked up  thing to ask!". He had a dumb look on his face after that.

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1 hour ago, LonesomeCrow said:

I never even looked directly at him when I walked in, hell I didn't even notice him until I turned around and he was right there. My mom saw him follow me.  I was really shoken up with anger and said "you  know,  that's  a  fucked up  thing to ask!". He had a dumb look on his face after that.

Good, I hope he learned some manners after that.  Some people are so oblivious as to what's appropriate and what isn't it's mind boggling.  You would think an adult would have the sense to use their brain and not blurt things out like a 5 yr old.  I expect those bold questions from children because they don't know any better, but a grown ass man?  SMH 😑

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