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Playing devil's advocate

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

I mean, that makes sense.  Sexuals can definitely experience sexual attraction minus romantic attraction, so why wouldn't the inverse also be possible?

On further reflection, I think it's not that we don't experience romantic attraction without sexual attraction, but when sexual attraction is lacking in the relationship, the absence is painful and metastatizes (sp?) through the rest of the relationship, weakening it throughout. 

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SCPDX
2 hours ago, ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

I mean, that makes sense.  Sexuals can definitely experience sexual attraction minus romantic attraction, so why wouldn't the inverse also be possible?

 

2 hours ago, ryn2 said:

It made sense to me but I was not able to offer up any example or description that successfully distinguished nonsexual romance from friendship.

 Yes, we can be physically attracted to someone without knowing anything about them. And yes we can be ‘romantically’ attracted to someone without being interested in them physically. 

 

Plenty of examples of that - same sex platonic “crushes” between heterosexuals, gay people having relationships with straight opposite gendered people etc. (not to ignore non-binary people...I’d prefer to let them speak for themselves). 

 

The main thing about such relationships, though, is that they’re not *committed*. They can be deep and very romantic (the Sir Ian McLellan/Sir Patrick Stewart bromance being a key example). But one person can decide to be done and there aren’t a whole lot of repercussions. 

 

I’d argue that for the vast majority of sexuals  to commit to someone else, the person they commit to is always going to be a match their sexual orientation and, like it or not, sex is going to need to be a part of that commitment. 

 

And maybe my wife and I should aspire to the Gandalf/Picard thing...

 

 

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ryn2

The examples you gave, though, are (as far as we know) examples of close friendship rather than of romantic love.  They may love each other as friends but they are not “in love” romantically with one another.

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Sally
On 3/9/2019 at 7:11 AM, ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ said:

That does sound a lot like my relationship.  Only he doesn't ever initiate.  It has to be me, always.  We've come to the conclusion that if I want anything I need to ask for it.  It's really hard for me.  And also I just want to be desired but that's not happening so I need to adjust my wants and compromise.

 

 

All that is because you two don't want the same thing.  You really can't expect someone to initiate something that they don't want.   If you want it, yes, you have to initiate it.    

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☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
3 hours ago, Sally said:

All that is because you two don't want the same thing.  You really can't expect someone to initiate something that they don't want.   If you want it, yes, you have to initiate it.    

Oh, I don't disagree with that in the slightest.  I'm only admitting that it's a challenge for me as I've always been submissive in my relationships.

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anamikanon
On 3/12/2019 at 2:32 AM, ryn2 said:

Does anyone know if it fades in ace/ace relationships?  It’s definitely a good way to describe how I have about my partners (versus my friends) despite not having a sexual bond with them.

I don't know how aces experience "love" of the sort you have with a partner. Mine insists I'm special, and indeed uprooted his entire life to move to another city to be with me, but how he feels or how I am different from others he cares about is hard to say for me. He isn't able to describe it either, other than saying it is different. Very. He describes a sense of belonging, acceptance, security. That doesn't sound very romantic to me in that sense. Particularly since, as a loner, I've never depended on another person to feel all that...

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

I don't know how aces experience "love" of the sort you have with a partner. Mine insists I'm special, and indeed uprooted his entire life to move to another city to be with me, but how he feels or how I am different from others he cares about is hard to say for me. He isn't able to describe it either, other than saying it is different. Very. He describes a sense of belonging, acceptance, security. That doesn't sound very romantic to me in that sense. Particularly since, as a loner, I've never depended on another person to feel all that...

What he says sounds similar to *some* of how I feel.  I guess, since it’s impossible to feel how others are feeling, there’s not really any way to know whether what sexual people experience as (any nonsexual components of) romantic love and what romantic aces experience as romantic love are the same... but given my own experiences (whatever the eff I am) and what other aces have described I still think what romantic aces experience as romantic love is *not* the same as what sexuals experience as friendship (unless what romantic aces experience as friendship is not the same as what sexuals experience as friendship, and I haven’t seen indications that’s true).  It just doesn’t have a handy reference marker.

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

What he says sounds similar to *some* of how I feel.  I guess, since it’s impossible to feel how others are feeling, there’s not really any way to know whether what sexual people experience as (any nonsexual components of) romantic love and what romantic aces experience as romantic love are the same... but given my own experiences (whatever the eff I am) and what other aces have described I still think what romantic aces experience as romantic love is *not* the same as what sexuals experience as friendship (unless what romantic aces experience as friendship is not the same as what sexuals experience as friendship, and I haven’t seen indications that’s true).  It just doesn’t have a handy reference marker.

 I once asked my ex(ish)-wife how she would describe the difference between our relationship and that of a friendship, since there was not only a lack of sex but of any demonstrative kind of affection, and she could only come up with moving city for my sake too. But for all that, I do think it was genuinely different to a friendship in her head - it just didn't look very much different to a friendship in practice.

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ryn2

Yeah, that’s a bit of a different question, because a lot of the ways people prioritize their partners do happen in their heads.  It’s not like every time you choose to go home and spend time with a partner rather than going out alone/with friends, or every time you volunteer to do a chore or run an  errand because a partner might be tired, or every time you suggest places for vacation you know a partner will love, etc., you verbalize the “I could have xyz but you’re my first priority/really special to me so I didn’t even bother seriously considering it and went for what you would want instead.”

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Telecaster68

It comes down to frequency. If your partner is always lower priority than other things, you can start to discern a pattern and it's not unfair to infer reasons.

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ryn2

It may not be unfair but it could be unproductive.  If you don’t discuss it (an actual calm discussion or discussion(s), not an argument or an gripe session where one complains and the other doesn’t really listen) you can get into a situation where one partner is putting the other first in their head (and believing they’re acting accordingly) where the other isn’t picking up on that at all (because the things they consider being put first aren’t happening, and/or the other partner never mentions any of the sacrifices so they’re completely invisible).

 

I got in that last situation with someone, where I was making time for him rather than going out with my friends and he was doing the opposite.  To me, saying “you know, xyz invited me out but I chose to spend time with you instead” feels passive-aggressive and guilt-trippy, so I just made accommodations in relatively cheerful silence.

 

To him, it read as “she doesn’t have enough friends,” and also as “she doesn’t like to go out and would rather sit home all the time, and now she’s trying to impose that on me.”

 

If we’d actually talked about it more initially the odds of either of us feeling understood would have been a whole lot better.

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