A Few Unanswered Question About Aromanticism

[Jo Read]

1. If I never felt romantic feeling before, how would I know I'm incapable of feeling them?

 

2. Do I really want to be in a romantic relationship, or am I just copying what I see in other people's lives?

 

3. Am I aromantic, or do I just don't like commonly romantic gestures?

 

4. Opinions on wanting to practice traditionally romantic activities with friends?

 

5. (Assuming the answer to question No.1 is "you can't know for sure"):

    How can I start a queer-platonic relationship with someone, and how to differentiate it from romantic dating?

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6. What is the role of sexual attraction in a aromantic relationship (opinions on purely sex-based relationships, and queer-platonic relationships involving sexual activities)

 

(I don't want to intrude myself to where I do not belong, but I can't think of a better place than here to ask these sort of questions. If these things were already answered before, or if I'm overstepping my position, let me know 🦗)

 

(Edit: apparently auto-correct changes aromantic into aromatic lol. I think I fixed it now)

[Acebooklove]

Well I´m not aromantic as far as I know but it´s "similar" to what I feel towards sex:

 

1. If you feel like you don´t want to engage in any romantic activity, that is how you know. If you are doubting if you are aro, you might wanna check out the stories of other people, it might help  It really depends on how you feel. 

2. Again, it´s like sex, do you do it because you like it or because it´s seen as "normal"? Only you can answer to that. If you feel a need to have a partner even though you don´t want it, it´s trying to "copy" what other people do, it´s natural to try and do so. 

3. I would say you sound aro if you don´t want romantic gestures or to be in a romantic relationship. 

4. Nope, no thanks. ( I hope I answered what you meant, if no, lmk)

5. I don´t know how to answer to that, lol sorry.

6. Don´t know how to answer either, sorry. 

 

WELCOME THO!🎂

[Phantasmal Fingers]

I am aromantic...

 

1. I'm not incapable of being gay, for example, I just don't happen to be gay.

2. If you're aromantic you won't feel a romantic attachment to anyone else, hence you won't want to have a romantic relationship. It doesn't mean you won't romanticise others though. Or feel romantic whilst reading poetry or watching a sunrise...

3. Is romance what you feel or the way you act out what you feel? If you're aro-ace you won't want to act it out with someone else.

4. Have you seen the film "In the Mood for Love"?  Although his wife is cheating on him and her husband is cheating on her (but presumably both marriages once used to work on both a romantic and sexual level) do they (i.e. the characters played by Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung) actually have an affair? Or do they pretend to each other that they do in order to see how it would feel if they did?

5. Assuming you're not either straight or gay isn't it confusing to claim to be queer? Wouldn't it be less confusing to claim only to be platonic?

6. Zero. There is no such thing as an aromantic relationship if you're asexual and aromantic. Unless, that is, you make a distinction between a form of sexual attraction which the person who experiences it does not desire to act on, and a form of sexual desire which the person who experiences it does want to act on. In which case you may be either lithromantic or sexually repressed. If you're sexual and aromantic presumably there would be such a thing as an aromantic (sexual) relationship. Friendship is different. Because I'm aro-ace my friends do not come with benefits: to me the benefits would simply be drawbacks.

[Galactic Turtle]

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

1. If I never felt romantic feeling before, how would I know I'm incapable of feeling them?

You don't however I personally don't have an interest in finding a partner so even if I am capable of those feelings, they'd have to occur by pure chance since I sure am not putting any effort into looking.

 

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

2. Do I really want to be in a romantic relationship, or am I just copying what I see in other people's lives?

I don't know. Do you? Are you?

 

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

3. Am I aromatic, or do I just don't like commonly romantic gestures?

I see lots of people who equate not liking commonly romantic gestures with being aromantic. I have no idea if that applies to you, however, since I don't know you.

 

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

4. Opinions on wanting to practice traditionally romantic activities with friends?

Candlelit dinner? Sure. Movie date? Sure. Cuddling? Sure. Kissing? You're gonna cause confusion. Sex? Might get messy. Moving in and sharing a bed? Clingy but sure I guess. Getting married? Um... I mean... if the commitment level is the same then I see no point in making a big deal over if it's romantic or platonic. The situation as it matters to the rest of the world is identical. What you do in your relationship is up to you.

 

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

5. (Assuming the answer to question No.1 is "you can't know for sure"):

    How can I start a queer-platonic relationship with someone, and how to differentiate it from romantic dating?

You can differentiate all you want but like I said before, if the commitment level is the same it doesn't really matter what you call it. If you get into a QPR with someone and they can't go off and get married to someone else then congrats you're a couple.

 

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

6. What is the role of sexual attraction in a aromatic relationship (opinions on purely sex-based relationships, and queer-platonic relationships involving sexual activities)

I'd say it's a pretty big basis for the relationship. If you're only there for the sex and the sex stops then you go off to get with someone else. If your committed relationship also involves sex then, once again, trying to differentiate with different relationship terms doesn't really matter to anyone except maybe you.

[BeakLove]

1 hour ago, Jo Read said:

(I don't want to intrude myself to where I do not belong, but I can't think of a better place than here to ask these sort of questions. If these things were already answered before, or if I'm overstepping my position, let me know 🦗)

Have some cake.

 

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1. If I never felt romantic feeling before, how would I know I'm incapable of feeling them?

You don't (@Abracadabra!'s analogue with being gay was good).

 

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2. Do I really want to be in a romantic relationship, or am I just copying what I see in other people's lives?

No one can escape social conditioning but you can be aware of it.

 

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3. Am I aromatic, or do I just don't like commonly romantic gestures?

There's a lot of people in relationships that don't particularly like "romantic" gestures.

 

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4. Opinions on wanting to practice traditionally romantic activities with friends?

Everyone draws the line between relationship and friendship differently. If you want to do those "traditionally romantic" things with them, and they with you, then there's nothing to stop you.

 

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5. (Assuming the answer to question No.1 is "you can't know for sure"):

    How can I start a queer-platonic relationship with someone, and how to differentiate it from romantic dating?

I suspect this is probably the question you're most interested in. It depends on what your conception of "queer-platonic" is. I personally think if you are asking someone to be in a named, exclusive relationship with you, then you're asking for a relationship, else it's a friendship: in which case, how it's differentiated from dating is just a question of what your expectations/boundaries for friendship are. In other words: I don't think queer-platonic is a useful category. Relationship exists for a socially useful reason: a declaration to other people (often backed legally) that this is your most significant (non-familial) relationship, and a signalling that you are off the market - "taken". A friendship, of course, can also be a significant relationship. And, I do despair a bit that friendship seems so often unvalued and disparaged. But QPR doesn't help that. A significant friendship should be called just such, not reach for a new label which introduces more noise and confusion.

 

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6. What is the role of sexual attraction in a aromatic relationship (opinions on purely sex-based relationships, and queer-platonic relationships involving sexual activities)

What's an aromantic relationship? Is it just a relationship lacking in romance? Or is it a non-romantic relationship: a friendship? Obviously, for many people sex plays a big role in sparking a relationship. 

 

What are your thoughts on these things, OP? Do you have a relationship with someone at the moment? 

 

[Jo Read]

TEST TEST

this is a test

[Jo Read]

11 hours ago, BeakLove said:

What's an aromantic relationship? Is it just a relationship lacking in romance? Or is it a non-romantic relationship: a friendship? Obviously, for many people sex plays a big role in sparking a relationship. 

~~I replied to this like twice but it doesn't seem to work~~

okay short reply:

Yes, I guess that I am pretty much asking what an aromantic relationship is. I just don't know how to introduce sexual activities into a relationship. I kind of assumed that I'll only do it when I'll start a romantic relationship, but now I'm not sure if that's a possibility, and I just can't imagine suggesting a non-romantic, sex-involved relationship to a friend.

Maybe it's just because I'm inexperienced in both sexual relationship and strong friendships though.

Also, is it reasonable to be in an exclusive sexual relationship with someone? I mean, how I see it that would mean that:

 

[Non-exclusive, strong emotional relationship] + [Exclusive sexual relationship] == [romantic relationship]

 

Or am I just misunderstanding how romantic relationships work?

[Jo Read]

11 hours ago, BeakLove said:

I suspect this is probably the question you're most interested in. It depends on what your conception of "queer-platonic" is. I personally think if you are asking someone to be in a named, exclusive relationship with you, then you're asking for a relationship, else it's a friendship: in which case, how it's differentiated from dating is just a question of what your expectations/boundaries for friendship are. In other words: I don't think queer-platonic is a useful category. Relationship exists for a socially useful reason: a declaration to other people (often backed legally) that this is your most significant (non-familial) relationship, and a signalling that you are off the market - "taken". A friendship, of course, can also be a significant relationship. And, I do despair a bit that friendship seems so often unvalued and disparaged. But QPR doesn't help that. A significant friendship should be called just such, not reach for a new label which introduces more noise and confusion.

I guess I'm still a bit confused:
I do want to have strong, significant friendships with people, but I feel as though they won't be as significant and meaningful as a romantic relationship,

but at the same time, I don't think I understand what exactly makes a romantic relationship as significant and meaningful as I believe it to be. Is it just a romantic feeling (and if so, does that mean I am feeling, or wanting to feel, a romantic attraction towards someone, since I give this significance to this sort of relationship?), or is there something else I'm missing?

[Jo Read]

11 hours ago, BeakLove said:

Have some cake.

🙏🙏

[Jo Read]

13 hours ago, Acebooklove said:

1. If you feel like you don´t want to engage in any romantic activity, that is how you know. If you are doubting if you are aro, you might wanna check out the stories of other people, it might help  It really depends on how you feel. 

2. Again, it´s like sex, do you do it because you like it or because it´s seen as "normal"? Only you can answer to that. If you feel a need to have a partner even though you don´t want it, it´s trying to "copy" what other people do, it´s natural to try and do so.

Thanks, I do intend to start looking at personal stories, and maybe try to compare them with my thoughts and feelings, see if I can deduce something from that.

13 hours ago, Acebooklove said:

4. Nope, no thanks. ( I hope I answered what you meant, if no, lmk)

Yea I was just curious what people think of this concept in general

(though maybe my definition of "traditionally romantic activities" is a bit loose. Maybe because as a boy this was something I rarely experienced with my friends, but I always considered things like cuddling, being very open emotionally, and generally doing things that involve only you and a very close friend, as pretty romantic gestures.)

 

13 hours ago, Acebooklove said:

WELCOME THO!🎂

Thank you 🙏

[Xstatic]

5 hours ago, Jo Read said:

I guess I'm still a bit confused:
I do want to have strong, significant friendships with people, but I feel as though they won't be as significant and meaningful as a romantic relationship,

but at the same time, I don't think I understand what exactly makes a romantic relationship as significant and meaningful as I believe it to be. Is it just a romantic feeling (and if so, does that mean I am feeling, or wanting to feel, a romantic attraction towards someone, since I give this significance to this sort of relationship?), or is there something else I'm missing?

So, I'm currently in a relationship with an aro/ace and I'm bisexual and very romantic.  So if anything, I can tell you a bit about my experience with all of this.

 

The person I'm dating I have been friends with for a very long time.  Like, 8 years.  I watched him struggle with all of this for years.  He wanted so much to have that sort of connection in his life, but he could never get it to happen.  I had many nights of holding his hand and telling him that he is a wonderful person and that he deserved love and happiness.  Back then he thought he was demisexual.  

 

Once I was actually single again, I decided that I wanted to try to have a relationship with him.  It took me a bit after I had kinda made that decision in my head, but I eventually went for it.  He didn't really know what to do with that information, and told me that roughly two years ago he had decided that he wasn't going to seek out a relationship anymore and just be happy with who he is, but that if something came along he would be open to the experience.

 

So we started dating.  After a couple of weeks it became apparent that he was actually asexual and we had a long talk about it.  He thought that we should end the relationship because he didn't think it was fair to me as a sexual.  So we did.  But after only three days we talked about it again and he said that he felt really sad.  So I told him that I was more than happy to resume dating him, and so I did.

 

Move ahead about 3 months, feelings that usually would be happening between two people in a romantic relationship weren't happening for him.  He wanted to feel what he could clearly see me feeling.  He felt terrible about it.  I had been on AVEN since we started dating because I wanted to understand him better.  Through AVEN I had been learning about aromantics.  Suddenly things that were happening between us were making sense.  Romantically he just feels indifferent.  And he also doesn't care if I have sex with other people while in a relationship with him.  I haven't, but I could.

 

I brought up the concept of him being aromantic.  We talked about it for a while.  I then had to make some more decisions.  Would this be okay for me, or would I constantly want what I can't have and possibly start resenting him.  Pretty much the same questions I had to assume myself about his asexuality.

 

I came to the conclusion that for now, I am content with where things are.  I accept that he can't give me more.  I don't expect it, therefore I'm not let down by the lack of it.  Sometimes I yearn for more.  But it is in no way problematic to the relationship.  If that changes, I will reevaluate the situation.

 

What do we get out of this relationship?  Though I can't truly speak for him, generally I feel that we get companionship.  We get loyalty,trust, and honesty which are qualities we both crave in a person.  

 

We still do things that are romantic in nature.  We hold hands.  We kiss.  We hug.  We cuddle a lot.  Most of that he does for me because he knows that it's important to me.  He respects my spectrum, and I, in return, respect his.  I take great care in not crossing his comfort levels too often or too strongly.  Though, I still do.  We consider it good for growth.  I also respect his need for space, which he needs a fair amount of.

 

I hope that helps explain things a little?  If you have any questions about my personal experience that you would like to ask, I'm very open to talking about it.

[BeakLove]

7 hours ago, Jo Read said:

~~I replied to this like twice but it doesn't seem to work~~

okay short reply:

Yes, I guess that I am pretty much asking what an aromantic relationship is. I just don't know how to introduce sexual activities into a relationship. I kind of assumed that I'll only do it when I'll start a romantic relationship, but now I'm not sure if that's a possibility, and I just can't imagine suggesting a non-romantic, sex-involved relationship to a friend.

Maybe it's just because I'm inexperienced in both sexual relationship and strong friendships though.

Also, is it reasonable to be in an exclusive sexual relationship with someone? I mean, how I see it that would mean that:

 

[Non-exclusive, strong emotional relationship] + [Exclusive sexual relationship] == [romantic relationship]

 

Or am I just misunderstanding how romantic relationships work?

Hiya. Sorry you had such a hard time with the quotes!

 

What is an aromantic relationship? Well, simply, it is "not-romantic". But that's a rather syntactical definition, not a semantically useful one. You'll probably get a spectrum of opinions on what an "aromantic relationship" actually means or implies. 

 

I think it's obvious that before you can characterise "aromantic", you have to define "romantic".  And I think part of the problem is that two things are conflated when people talk of "romantic relationships". They use the qualifier of "romantic" to indicate merely that it is a named, declared, couple partnership (because relationship frustratingly is both the generic term for any long-standing relation context, and couple partnership). And they also use "romantic" to describe the character that such a relationship should ideally have: it should "feel romantic" and involve participating in romantic activities. Thus, when it comes to defining aromantic you see two broad counter-definitions being proposed: a relationship that can involve "romantic" activities but it is not romantic because it is not a named, declared, couple partnership. Or a relationship that can be a coupling, but does not comprehend the notion of "romance". No wonder it is so confusing!

 

No one can tell you exactly how these terms should be interpreted, but my two cents is this: I think when it comes to non-familial relationship categorisations there are really only two categories: relationship and friendship. The dividing line is simple: have you decided to be a declared couple or not? If you have, it's a relationship, if not, a friendship. And of course, exclusivity is strongly tied up in determining this, as everyone has a set of things they put behind their relationship "paywall" as it were: activities/feelings they would not consider doing/having (certainly not on a consistent basis anyway) outside the scope of a couple relationship.  But I think if you're proposing a declared couple relationship: you are (at least, effectively) proposing a romantic relationship.

 

As to the issue of "romantic" character: does it feel "romantic"? Does it involve swooning, or infatuation, or chocolates, or dates, or candle dinners, or holding hands, or deep-set feelings, or whatever one's own conception of romantic is. Well, my opinion is that that's down to the individual relationship instance. Usually people will put those behind their relationship "paywall" - they'll make them exclusive to a couple relationship. But any relationship of any type can have that quality.

 

So to answer your question, what's an aromantic relationship? Well it's either a relationship lacking in romance, or a non-romantic relationship (a friendship), depending on your point of view. But if you suggested a "a non-romantic, sex-involved relationship to a friend", what exactly would that entail? If you want a named, couple relationship it's still a romantic relationship, even if you don't wish to do "romantic" things. If you don't want that, it's just a friends-with-benefits.

 

7 hours ago, Jo Read said:

I guess I'm still a bit confused:
I do want to have strong, significant friendships with people, but I feel as though they won't be as significant and meaningful as a romantic relationship,

but at the same time, I don't think I understand what exactly makes a romantic relationship as significant and meaningful as I believe it to be. Is it just a romantic feeling (and if so, does that mean I am feeling, or wanting to feel, a romantic attraction towards someone, since I give this significance to this sort of relationship?), or is there something else I'm missing?

Again, because romance is so poorly-defined it's hard to answer this. You're not the only who's confused! 

 

For me, the only coherent definition of a romantic feeling is that it's a strong, positive delusion ("romanticising") about the other, and a want for deep enmeshment/connection with them. A "pull" towards them. And for it to be a "true" romance, it should not be an idealisation done through ignorance (a crush) or wilful delusion (denial), but one that persists in full knowledge of the other person and their flaws. I think (others may disagree) that having that feeling does make a relationship more significant and meaningful, and that is the component I seek in a relationship. The title is a second-order issue, and I don't think any special meaning derives from it. Obviously, then, I also think (as described above) that you can have this feeling towards anyone regardless of your relationship status.

 

But it makes sense that a feeling such as this generally only has a chance to blossom in the context of romantic relationships, as the actions and activities that allow the sort of intimacy that leads to it are exclusively their purview and the large amount of time required to develop such a feeling is usually only invested in relationships. Alternatively, if the feelings evolve in the context of a friendship, people will often want to commit to a partnership with someone for whom they feel so passionately (though that may also be social conditioning). From a practical life point-of-view, it makes sense to want to have the relationship with whom you share that feeling, also be the person you raise children with, live with, have sexual intercourse with, etc.

 

But the important thing to note is that nothing about labelling a relationship means that it will necessarily have such a quality (or indeed, any quality). It is ultimately, just a label at the end of the day. If I were you, I would just let your relationships develop as they are. There is no reason to just assume your friendships will be less significant and meaningful than a relationship. Maybe they will, but I think you actually have to have these relationships first! I personally think we are lucky if we get even one significant and meaningful relationship. If and when you do, you'll treasure it, regardless of the label it's given. 🙂

[kiaroskuro]

On 2/11/2019 at 1:03 AM, Jo Read said:

1. If I never felt romantic feeling before, how would I know I'm incapable of feeling them?

Keep in mind that even of you seem to be incapable of feeling this way now, you might develop romantic feelings in the future. I'm not saying that you shouldn't identify as aromantic, just encouraging you to let things flow naturally. You could be demiromantic, after all, or something else entirely.