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Meta4icalMe

Sex and falling in love?? Do you need one for the other to happen?

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CBC
3 hours ago, Meta4icalMe said:

How about taking a beat? Tic Toc, Girl.....You’ve got a lot of anger on this subject in your replies. Peoples opinions differ Ceebs. Emotions and sexual desires are different and just because they answer differently than how you feel about the subject does not entitle you to attack like they are in some prize fight with you.

Dial your hostility back and take a beat to remember that the world does not conform to you and that we are all individuals with different types of sexuality. No one here has attacked your sexuality....so breath and check yourself.

I'm breathing just fine, thanks. Perhaps you were misinterpreting my writing style as hostility; I'm just pointing out the truth, however. I'm very understanding and accepting of asexuality, btw -- I'm on this site because I suspected I may be ace for many years, and I was in a relationship with someone who definitely is. Individuality is awesome, I agree. Humans are very diverse. It was you suggesting that sexual people don't experience love that I thought was utterly ridiculous. But I'm fine, thank you.

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MiffKeks
7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

There's absolutely no logical connection there at all. For most people, being interested is part of being interested in them as a person. 

Good to hear that there're people out there who do not think so.

Though one question? On here and on all kinds of websites is stated that the first interest people take into others is through physical attractivity and that they are to say: "I'd have intercourse with this person" and that personality and chemistry come next. Which shall explain why a lot of people are fine with one-night-stands and are very expectand towards potential partners they want "to keep to themselves". Often enough the reason behind this seems to be sought in subconcious-bilogical-reproductive phenomena.

 

 

 

Over the last few years there have been more and more articles, videos etc. trying to be advisors for all things in life completely insecuring a lot of people in terms of relationships, how to get into them and stay together. Especially celebs with their constant marriage-divorce-games and cheating escapades, invented by yellow press, or not have done no good... so they say. How are your experiences?

 

All kinds of statistics and opinion polls suggest that there are, well maybe they're not actually more cheaters than there were in the past.... uhm... so I'll go with: It's stated that a lot of people are cheating on their partners (for all kinds of reasons) or already looking for "better ones" while still being in relationships. Rumor has it that breaking up is something easy today and nobody actually feels bad, at all. (Probably mostly coming from the older generations???) Of course, I cannot prove that these polls and stats are correct but they make people believe that they are which leads to distrust.

 

And since everyone shall have mister- or misses-right nobody is allowed to just be happy with the one they're together with. Optimization, jeez...

 

Is it just me or is media using these insecurities to their advantage? They're telling people that success has to be connected to attractivity and that said attractivity musn't come with personality? Which would people lead to only look for physically attractive partners and then wondering why they either can't get one or aren't happy. Conspiracy.... *makes spooky sounds*. No seriously, it started in primary school that the first girls of my class started to call those losers who weren't in a "relationship" and be mean to each other when one of their "friends" had a "boyfriend" to b """even""" since they themselves didn't get one... ... ...

 

 

Oh my gosh... I've drifted so far away from what you stated XD.

I'm so sorry! Here, take a slice for cake ;-;!

chocolate-mousse-cake-slice_illustration_purpose.jpg

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LeChat

Hi. From reading your posts, it sounds to me as though you're an aromantic asexual.

 

7 hours ago, Meta4icalMe said:

...Looking for replies about the parallels of sex and falling in love....does one require the other for such a deep bond???...

I don't know whether this is exactly what you were asking about, but here's a YouTube clip of a psychologist and therapist who explains that, for some people, they do experience a "split-attraction," where their sexual and romantic orientations don't line up the way they do for most people. He also talks about asexuality, aromanticism, etc. a few minutes later, in the clip.

 

https://youtu.be/dyfsJT14qPQ?t=499

 

 

 

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Telecaster68
10 minutes ago, MiffKeks said:

On here and on all kinds of websites is stated that the first interest people take into others is through physical attractivity and that they are to say: "I'd have intercourse with this person" and that personality and chemistry come next.

I think it's more that visuals are a first impression, because we see people before we talk to them, so that particular criterion gets considered first. Others, like sense of humour, any kind of mental connection, etc. come after that chronologically. It's not that they're more important.

 

12 minutes ago, MiffKeks said:

ll kinds of statistics and opinion polls suggest that there are, well maybe they're not actually more cheaters than there were in the past.... uhm... so I'll go with: It's stated that a lot of people are cheating on their partners (for all kinds of reasons) or already looking for "better ones" while still being in relationships. Rumor has it that breaking up is something easy today and nobody actually feels bad, at all. (Probably mostly coming from the older generations???) Of course, I cannot prove that these polls and stats are correct but they make people believe that they are which leads to distrust.

I don't think humans change much. Breaking up is no more or less painful. Possibly easier to do, and easier for people to know about.

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CBC
13 hours ago, MiffKeks said:

I am just reading articles about relationships and love like a lot of people do and I did not intend to call allos primitive. You probably wouldn't notice it when reading the exact same thing because to you it's normal and an established fact that sex is positive and belongs to love.

Actually it took me a long time to understand that. I came here 15 years ago thinking I was possibly asexual. I had a long relationship (a marriage) with someone of the opposite sex, who identifies as asexual, during which I realised I probably wasn't ace after all. But I couldn't pair sex and love much at all, I had a lot of extreme negativity surrounding sexuality, dealt with repulsion, self-hatred and disgust, major cognitive dissonance... all sorts of unpleasant emotions and thoughts. Don't assume I innately connected the two; for the longest time, it all made very little sense to me. I didn't properly understand myself (that I'm gay) until I was around 30.

 

13 hours ago, MiffKeks said:

However I don't understand why you say: "Plus it appears that I love my partner exponentially more than you've ever loved anyone."

Fair enough I guess, however you said that you'd never been "in love" with anyone. I assumed we were talking about "in love" love rather than things like companionate or familial love. If you've never experienced that type of love for someone (which, personally, encompasses other forms of love as well, like friendship and companionate love), then it seems that I've experienced something to a degree that you haven't.

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CBC

Sorry for the out-of-order-ness of replies there sorta, btw. I was asleep for a while and realised I'd not properly responded to things I hadn't read.

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Spotastic

@Ceebs. I like your bluntness, but understand how it puts people on the defensive. You certainly have an interesting point of view that I respect, though.

 

@MiffKeks I love how you get so involved in what you're talking about that you just keep going and going. 😀

 

As far as the topic of the thread, I met my wife online and we fell in love well before we had even met each other in person. We've been together for 11 years now. She is not asexual, and we did initially have quite a bit of sex, which was awkward for me, but I contributed that to inexperience. I didn't know I was gray-asexual until 5 years ago. I like the feeling of sex, but feel no inclination to have it. My wife always has to initiate things. It took over a year even after finding out about asexuality to come to a compromise that works for us both, but it took a lot of open communication about our likes and dislikes. The best thing for me, if you're looking for a partner, is to find someone you can really talk to and connect with on more than a superficial level. Sex may or may not play into that for someone.

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CBC
4 hours ago, Spotastic said:

@Ceebs. I like your bluntness, but understand how it puts people on the defensive. You certainly have an interesting point of view that I respect, though.

Oh that's how it usually goes with me, it's a fair criticism haha. 

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MiffKeks
9 hours ago, Ceebs. said:

Fair enough I guess, however you said that you'd never been "in love" with anyone. I assumed we were talking about "in love" love rather than things like companionate or familial love. If you've never experienced that type of love for someone (which, personally, encompasses other forms of love as well, like friendship and companionate love), then it seems that I've experienced something to a degree that you haven't.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. To be honest here I haven't made the step in my thoughts that would have been necessary to put "in love"-love and familial-love into two different categories. I have to confess that I believed, or still believe that the two must generally work in the same manner with the only real difference that partners would have intercourse if they so please, uhm... and that they're not part of the same family-tree. (Which obviously is the norm in this world).

 

I'm troubled with all the talking about sex. It so often sounds like that when two love each other that they have to have sex or their relationship is illegit. And I really don't understand why having sex is treated as a "more" rather than "one possbility" to show how much people care for each other. :(

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MiffKeks
6 hours ago, Spotastic said:

@MiffKeks I love how you get so involved in what you're talking about that you just keep going and going. 😀

 

NOOOOO! XD. I'm gonna talk people to death one day ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;.

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Telecaster68
11 minutes ago, MiffKeks said:

I really don't understand why having sex is treated as a "more" rather than "one possbility"

Because for sexuals it intertwines the physical and the emotional making it far more visceral and intense than either alone. 

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CBC

What Tele said.

 

And not having sex doesn't make a relationship not legitimate. It would generally make it unfulfilling for a sexual person, but any relationship that all parties involved declare to be a relationship is still legitimate. It's just difficult for sexual people to perceive it as... whole?... without the physical/emotional component provided by sex. And there's no equivalent to sex.

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Dreamsexual

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jay williams
On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 7:40 AM, Meta4icalMe said:

I have these discussions with my friends all the time but I never thought to challenge it in this way... Thanks Jay.

I feel sometimes that I must always explain myself and my lack of sexuality or at not having a man in my life. Even my son wishes I could find a man to enjoy companionship with. He hates that I’m alone and getting older. I explain it’s very difficult, especially in the blasted age of the dreaded and horrifying invention of Viagra! When I was younger I looked forward to getting older and the lack of sexual drive in men.... yeah that really worked out for me 🤨 Leave it to a man to invent a blue pill that destroyed my hope of ever having a relationship. 🤯

I think it would be great if you ask your friends what sex does for them. Do they really enjoy it? I thought many women don't get much out of piv sex? So why do it? And for men it oftentimes takes longer to take off their clothes than it does to experience something. For either, it probably takes longer to clean up. . . . LOL

BTW, I read somewhere that lots of men have tried Viagra a few times and decided it was not worth it. It has adverse effects of some kind. I never had any and I never will. By the way, I don't think Viagra increases sex drive. I don't know if it makes sex more pleasurable for men. I imagine It is only helpful for men who want sex, and/or who enjoy sex. In short, Viagra is presumably for people who keep trying to "do it," but can't because they can't stay erect.

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jay williams
4 hours ago, MiffKeks said:

 I'm troubled with all the talking about sex. It so often sounds like that when two love each other that they have to have sex or their relationship is illegit. And I really don't understand why having sex is treated as a "more" rather than "one possbility" to show how much people care for each other. :( 

You are not alone with these questions. Even if people do want sex, and then indulge, do they need to keep repeating every day, every week?

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CBC
15 minutes ago, jay williams said:

For either, it probably takes longer to clean up. . . . LOL

Ok, serious question: what all do you think people do during sex that requires so much clean-up that it takes longer than actual sex?? :huh: 

 

11 minutes ago, jay williams said:

You are not alone with these questions. Even if people do want sex, and then indulge, do they need to keep repeating every day, every week?

Frequency varies, but yes. Do you not repeat things that are highly enjoyable and beneficial to your psychological health?

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ryn2
21 hours ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

From reading your posts, it sounds to me as though you're an aromantic asexual.

This was my thought as well.  People who are aromantic typically don’t experience the whole “falling in love” thing, regardless of whether they are sexual or asexual.

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MLJ
On 2/7/2019 at 5:42 AM, MiffKeks said:

I too cannot remember to have ever fallen in love. But honestly, every time I read something where allos are talking about love it's in fact only about the sex. It's hard to remember if I've ever found an article where it's about how people do good for their partners without ending up in the will to reproduce...

For allos it seems to be like: I carrot/peach you, so I love you (if it's in a relationship and not a one night stand for that matter). It's a way to "proof" actual affection to them.

We use them as "welcome-gifts" here. Hope, it's your taste :).

I don't know what kind of things you are reading, but I can think of numerous examples of books (fiction and nonfiction) as well as movies that describe genuine love that includes sex. I know lots of people with genuine loving relationships whose relationships include sex. What you wrote here was really offensive. Maybe you were just trying to be clever and "spice" things up (as you said), but it is really unkind to suggest that all the relationships of all "allos" boils down to just "wanting sex." That is absolutely not the case and completely misunderstands what sex means to sexual people and what sexual relationships are like.

 

Ceebs was totally justified in her response. I'd suggest if you don't mean to offend people, that you be a little more careful when choosing the way you phrase things.

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jay williams

Wow, people can be a little touchy about feelings of love, and feelings of sex, or the absence of any such feelings, and whether the twain meet. I assume the majority of people who participate in these forums are not your typical, run-of-the-mill girl-meets-boy and boy-meets-girl types. I know I am not, nor am I proud to say so. But it is nice to know if we are not alone in our feelings of a certain kind, and in our lack of feelings of a certain kind.

Anyway, I love discussions among us, whether I agree with others or not. I hope that none of us has to worry about whether what we say is offensive to others. Worrying about whether someone is offended can inhibit saying anything at all, which is least desirable.

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Telecaster68
17 minutes ago, jay williams said:

people can be a little touchy about feelings of love, and feelings of sex,

About the same amount of touchy as asexuals getting annoyed at being called robots.

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AndrewT

I've read through this whole thread, nothing offensive really in it (to me)

A couple of people that have taking offence (but to me so F****** what, be offended)

 

People are allowed different opinions, and if someone states they have never "something", you can't correct them as you have not lived there life.

 

just be and let be

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jay williams
23 hours ago, CBC said:

Ok, serious question: what all do you think people do during sex that requires so much clean-up that it takes longer than actual sex?? :huh: 

 

Frequency varies, but yes. Do you not repeat things that are highly enjoyable and beneficial to your psychological health?

I have heard the expression "exchange of body fluids" as a reference to something that might occur during sex. I don't know if (some, many, none or all) people do a "clean-up" thereafter, or how long it takes or any of the nitty-gritty involved. But I am one of those who has had sex, never felt the earth move, and never see the point of it...if it has a point. Now I am referring especially to piv sex. I confess that I have other desires, and that I am aberrant.

 

Let me give an example of something that I understand that at least some people do (but that I have a total absence of appreciation); Some folks like genital to anal penetration. Why do they have that desire? Why is it enjoyable? Why would they want to repeat it? How is it beneficial to health? You don't have to answer this, but these are purely WTF? thoughts that I have about that. I suspect other people are similarly not excited about PIA sex. For me (but obviously not for most people) I have similar (though not identical) sentiments about PIV sex.

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jay williams
8 minutes ago, AndrewT said:

I've read through this whole thread, nothing offensive really in it (to me)

A couple of people that have taking offence (but to me so F****** what, be offended)

 

People are allowed different opinions, and if someone states they have never "something", you can't correct them as you have not lived there life.

 

just be and let be

Well said Fred. . .er. . . Andrew. 🙂

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Telecaster68
2 minutes ago, jay williams said:

I have heard the expression "exchange of body fluids" 

The thing with sex is that generally something is going inside something else. The exchange takes place (generally) inside one of the partners.

 

There may be a small damp patch, akin to tipping over the dregs of a mug of coffee, and maybe people are bit sticky and sweaty. It's not like clearing up after a kids' party or something.

4 minutes ago, jay williams said:

Some folks like genital to anal penetration. Why do they have that desire? Why is it enjoyable? Why would they want to repeat it? How is it beneficial to health?

For the people who like it, it physically feels good. That's why they want to repeat it. Sex isn't generally done for the health benefits, so not sure why that would come into it.

 

I'd have thought it's fairly clear that for the penetrator it feels good for the same reason vaginal sex feels good. For the penetrated, it's in the same kind of ballpark, apparently, plus there are some internal stuff like prostates/clitorises that can be stimulated from that direction.

 

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xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
On 2/8/2019 at 8:21 AM, jay williams said:

I think it would be great if you ask your friends what sex does for them. Do they really enjoy it? I thought many women don't get much out of piv sex? So why do it?

I can't answer for everyone, but I can answer for me.  I don't feel any sensation during penetrative sex.  But I do, in fact, still enjoy the experience very much.  I feel wanted and desired by my partner.  I also have a deep desire to please my partner and love knowing that I am involved in making that person feel pleasure.  Aside from the physical, if I'm with someone I love, there is an emotional bond that happens as well.  Like if you combine two elements and create a new element derived from both parts.  The phrase "two become one" is the best way to describe it I think.  Though I am waaaay up there on the romantic scale, so I can easily become smitten.

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jay williams

I don't have any issue with those who want/need sex. I have experienced it (decades ago). I really like women. I just never met any who don't want sex. The kind of woman that could excite me is one who would like to never have sex. Common as they may appear in AVEN, they don't make themselves known in the real world.

I guess I am mildly repulsed about PIV sex. In any event I have zero desire for it. I am quite repulsed about PIA sex. Dunno why for sure. Maybe it is irrational, but I am repulsed by it.

Now having said the above, I make no secret about the fact that I have a fairly strong yearning to orally fellate a guy. Why? Who knows? It has a lot of aesthetic appeal, even though the male body does nothing for me. Not only that I have never experienced romantic love for a guy, nor do I anticipate it ever to occur. On the other hand I can and do experience romantic love for a woman, yet have "zip" wanting/desiring  sex with a woman. I have seen a few guys here in AVEN with similar feelings or orientations as mine, but only a few.

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jay williams
14 minutes ago, xstatic said:

I can't answer for everyone, but I can answer for me.  I don't feel any sensation during penetrative sex.  But I do, in fact, still enjoy the experience very much.  I feel wanted and desired by my partner.  I also have a deep desire to please my partner and love knowing that I am involved in making that person feel pleasure.  Aside from the physical, if I'm with someone I love, there is an emotional bond that happens as well.  Like if you combine two elements and create a new element derived from both parts.  The phrase "two become one" is the best way to describe it I think.  Though I am waaaay up there on the romantic scale, so I can easily become smitten.

Thanks. You explained yourself well. Do you have desires for penetrative sex, or do you just enjoy it when your partner expresses the desire?

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xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
21 minutes ago, jay williams said:

Thanks. You explained yourself well. Do you have desires for penetrative sex, or do you just enjoy it when your partner expresses the desire?

Both.  

 

I'm with an ace now so I'm not going to get the latter, but the desire for sex remains.  He finds that extremely odd.  But I do the best I can to explain it.

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Spotastic
On 2/8/2019 at 8:21 AM, jay williams said:

BTW, I read somewhere that lots of men have tried Viagra a few times and decided it was not worth it. It has adverse effects of some kind. I never had any and I never will. By the way, I don't think Viagra increases sex drive. I don't know if it makes sex more pleasurable for men. I imagine It is only helpful for men who want sex, and/or who enjoy sex. In short, Viagra is presumably for people who keep trying to "do it," but can't because they can't stay erect.

As a preface, I fall into the gray area of asexuality. I like it well enough, in some ways, but I feel no desire for it and my wife always has to initiate things.

 

While I have never used Viagra myself, I understand why it's used. For those who can't get an erection, it gives them one. For those who can get an erection, it allows them to get an erection faster and that lasts longer. That lasting longer bit is why many guys will use it, which means they can have sex for longer, getting that pleasure they derive from it for longer. Whether someone wants penetrative sex or not, they can get that feeling for longer than without the drug. I could see it used simply for extended masturbation. Personally, that feeling would get overwhelming for me after too much time. The most common side effects are that it may become painful after a time, or your erection may last a lot longer than you would want it to.

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xstatic ☆゚°˖* ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
2 hours ago, jay williams said:

Now having said the above, I make no secret about the fact that I have a fairly strong yearning to orally fellate a guy. Why? Who knows? It has a lot of aesthetic appeal, even though the male body does nothing for me. Not only that I have never experienced romantic love for a guy, nor do I anticipate it ever to occur. On the other hand I can and do experience romantic love for a woman, yet have "zip" wanting/desiring  sex with a woman. I have seen a few guys here in AVEN with similar feelings or orientations as mine, but only a few.

I didn't see this earlier and I want to address it.  I share similar feelings in that I consider myself bisexual but heteroromantic.  So it's nice to know that I'm not alone.  I really love getting a girl off, but I have zero desire to be in a relationship with one.  I can't really explain why.

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