helana12_03 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Honestly this never made sense to me. How is sex related to love? Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 11 hours ago, helana12_03 said: Honestly this never made sense to me. How is sex related to love? It isn't. Sex is lust, not love. Sex is about touching someone else for pleasure. Masturbation is about touching yourself for pleasure. THEY are related in the sense that neither is about love and both are about obtaining a physical release of tension. Can you have sex with someone and love that person as well? Definitely, however those are two different things that often coincide. You can lust after their body and also love the person they are. Can you have sex with someone and not love them at all? Absolutely. Prostitution exists for a reason. It's about lust. It's about physical pleasure and nothing more. If sex was required to love a person then everyone who is a virgin, including many heterosexuals, wouldn't feel any sort of affectionate emotional connection to other people before having sex with them. Sex is strictly a behavior. Love isn't bound to a behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
jay williams Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 12 hours ago, helana12_03 said: Honestly this never made sense to me. How is sex related to love? Great question. One that I have always had. Or perhaps it is not really a question and essentially a statement derived from our orientation or -uality. There are too many folks who believe there is a fundamental connection between sex and love. . .that convinces me that it is a real phenomenon for many and perhaps most people. For me, the sex act is really quite absurd. I have been there, and I have done it. I never got anything transcendental out of it, and I never would if I were to try. Most males that I have known believe that sex is the ultimate thing, and they have a strong urge for it. I assume most females do as well. As for me, I don't have the urge for it, and I don't understand it. I consider you normal, and those who yearn for sex are the freaks, to my way of thinking. 🙂 Link to post Share on other sites
jay williams Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, ryn2 said: It does appear from the postings on AVEN that the majority of both sexual and asexual people do have - or had at some point in their lives - a libido. I know that’s not a scientific approach, though. I consider you a scientist. Therefore, I believe your pronouncement is real science. 🙂 Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: It isn't. Sex is lust, not love. 1 hour ago, jay williams said: There are too many folks who believe there is a fundamental connection between sex and love. . .that convinces me that it is a real phenomenon for many and perhaps most people. While my personal experience is the former quote, I’ve come to the same conclusion (after a year of talking with people here) as that expressed in the second one... that, for a lot of people (not including me) sex and love really are inextricably connected. Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, ryn2 said: While my personal experience is the former quote, I’ve come to the same conclusion (after a year of talking with people here) as that expressed in the second one... that, for a lot of people (not including me) sex and love really are inextricably connected. I see what you mean. However, if we already know that sex and love can exist and function independently of one another, then we definitely know that the two are separate and distinct. Even if someone experiences both at the same time, which is fine, that still doesn't erase the fact that sex and love can exist without going hand in hand. This has already been proven by aces who love without ever having sex, myself included. So for someone to say you definitely can't have one without the other, that is false. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: So for someone to say you definitely can't have one without the other, that is false. If someone says “no one can have one without the other,” that’s clearly false. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean the inverse - “everyone can have one without the other” - is true either. Even though “no one can have one without the other” is false, it’s still possible that some people: * can experience/enjoy (either) one but not the other * can experience/enjoy both simultaneously, although the two things are separate and distinct from one another * can experience/enjoy both, but not (perhaps even never) at the same time * can experience/enjoy neither * can experience/enjoy both, but only at the same time It’s also possible some people fall under more than one of the above scenarios, but at different points of their lives/in different situations/to varying degrees. tl;dr “I can experience and sustain romantic love without sex” can be both 100% true for you (and me) *and* 100% false for at least some subset of sexuals at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, ryn2 said: If someone says “no one can have one without the other,” that’s clearly false. That's what I mean. There are people saying that no one can love someone without having sex with them first. That is indeed false. I'm not saying all people must experience love and/or sex the same way. I'm saying love and sex are two distinct separate things regardless of how they're experienced. Link to post Share on other sites
helana12_03 Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 5 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: It isn't. Sex is lust, not love. Sex is about touching someone else for pleasure. Masturbation is about touching yourself for pleasure. THEY are related in the sense that neither is about love and both are about obtaining a physical release of tension. Can you have sex with someone and love that person as well? Definitely, however those are two different things that often coincide. You can lust after their body and also love the person they are. Can you have sex with someone and not love them at all? Absolutely. Prostitution exists for a reason. It's about lust. It's about physical pleasure and nothing more. If sex was required to love a person then everyone who is a virgin, including many heterosexuals, wouldn't feel any sort of affectionate emotional connection to other people before having sex with them. Sex is strictly a behavior. Love isn't bound to a behavior. I'm confused. I've seen lots of sexuals post about how they don't feel loved because their asexual partner doesn't want to have sex with them. It seems like some people need to have sex with their partner to feel loved. Also, sex is called "making love" right? There's gotta be a reason for that. Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 1 hour ago, helana12_03 said: I'm confused. I've seen lots of sexuals post about how they don't feel loved because their asexual partner doesn't want to have sex with them. It seems like some people need to have sex with their partner to feel loved. Also, sex is called "making love" right? There's gotta be a reason for that. Perhaps it's because they don't know what love actually is. Sexual attraction isn't love, and neither is the act of sex itself. If someone needs sex to feel loved what they really need is counseling. That's a huge red flag. When people talk about "making love" they're usually in some sort of partnership, which points to emotional bonding coinciding with the sexual acts. Nobody having a one-night-stand or picking up a prostitute for example is "making love." You need an emotional connection to someone in order to love them. There's also a reason why some people say "We're not making love, we're just f**king." Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 For myself, I could not imagine having sex without love. That just wouldn't feel right. Love without sex? I'm not super sexual and have never been attracted to people individually. I've had crushes, without ever having sexual feelings. My feelings never advanced enough, nor were reciprocated, for sexuality to enter the equation. I imagine if I was in a long term relationship with someone I would want to have sexual relations with them, and it would likely feel wrong without it. To me sex is about intimacy, connection, seeing and having a part of someone no one else can. If I could handle a sexless romantic relationship, I don't know. But as a sexual, the two for me are definitely connected. Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I'm ace and married to a sexual man. There have to be compromises on both sides in all relationships. It's bad for any relationship for the balance of power to swing in one direction. I accept that the craving for sex is not something I am ever going to fully understand, but it's a big deal for him, so it's the price I'm prepared to pay for the privilege of being with an amazing person who appreciates me and who I love dearly. That's all there is to it. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 4 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: I'm saying love and sex are two distinct separate things regardless of how they're experienced. This may not be true for all just because it’s true for some. Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 minute ago, ryn2 said: This may not be true for all just because it’s true for some. They are by definition two distinct different things. If you don't believe me you can Google it. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, CBC said: reasons asexuals would never encounter. The ones in mixed relationships might - they just wouldn’t be the cause. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Just now, AceOfHearts_85 said: They are by definition two distinct different things. If you don't believe me you can Google it. That doesn’t mean they are independent of one another for all people. Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, ryn2 said: That doesn’t mean they are independent of one another for all people. I said they are two different things regardless of how a person experiences them. You can experience one or the other or both at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 minute ago, AceOfHearts_85 said: I said they are two different things regardless of how a person experiences them. You can experience one or the other or both at the same time. My point was that regardless of whether or not they are distinct and can be experienced distinctly by some people, they may only and ever exist together for others. Just like their being inextricably linked for some doesn’t mean they are for all... the reverse may also be true. People claiming the two things are inextricably linked for themselves may be just as correct as those saying (for themselves) there is no link. Link to post Share on other sites
General Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, ryn2 said: My point was that regardless of whether or not they are distinct and can be experienced distinctly by some people, they may only and ever exist together for others. Just like their being inextricably linked for some doesn’t mean they are for all... the reverse may also be true. People claiming the two things are inextricably linked for themselves may be just as correct as those saying (for themselves) there is no link. It isn't about a link between the two or lack thereof. It's about both terms having clearly different definitions. Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I'm locking this thread for now. It's gone completely off topic, and getting a bit heated. Skycaptain moderator Older Asexuals Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I've waved the magic wand, and disappeared the off-topic stuff. Re-opening this , but please keep to the original topic Skycaptain moderator Older Asexuals Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 I feel sex and love are mutually exclusive. While one can have both at the same time. They are also 2 separate entities that can be experienced without the other. I had a fully asexual relationship and I was head over heels in love for 2 years. We only held hands and cuddled. I am now married to a sexual and sex is a secondary factor. It doesn't reduce or increase the love we have for each other. We can even stop half way in the act and decide to watch a movie or play scrabble instead as being with each other and being mentally stimulated by each other is just as satisfying (not all sexuals are able to do this. Am lucky to have married such an individual) Link to post Share on other sites
Iam9man Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I have fallen in love with several women. I’ve had sex with some of them. I’ve also had sex with women I didn’t love. I don’t need one to experience the other, and I value love/romance over sex (but then again, I’m asexual). Link to post Share on other sites
AllThisTime Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 On 4/13/2019 at 10:43 PM, kumiko_itoe said: I had a fully asexual relationship and I was head over heels in love for 2 years. We only held hands and cuddled. I am now married to a sexual and sex is a secondary factor. It doesn't reduce or increase the love we have for each other. This says it for me. I will never 'get' the sexual aspect, but I sense how powerful the sexual need / desire is for my sexual friends. Sometimes I am ... envious?? ... that I am missing something. Then I think I'm fortunate to not have to worry about sex, which is a huge relief for me. So there is no question about my asexuality! However, I also know that I'll never share that special spark that I know exists between sexuals. Link to post Share on other sites
jay williams Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 I always hoped you could have love without having to have sex. For me, (piv) sex was always totally overrated, and a stupid thing to do. It always felt awkward, unnatural, and definitely not some kind of tender, loving experience. I could write a whole essay on the experience. It is always nice to hear of women who don't like sex. What happens to these women? They say opposites attract. So I think that women who don't like sex get married to men who are nuts about sex. Link to post Share on other sites
jay williams Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/13/2019 at 9:43 PM, kumiko_itoe said: Sex doesn't reduce or increase the love we have for each other. We can even stop half way in the act and decide to watch a movie or play scrabble instead as being with each other and being mentally stimulated by each other is just as satisfying (not all sexuals are able to do this. Am lucky to have married such an individual) How awesome! This reminds me of years ago, when intercourse would never occur until after dating for a considerable length of time. I DID touching, "petting," caressing, getting turned on and aroused, but stopping short of coupling the bodies for copulation. I genuinely enjoyed the passion and arousal, knowing full well that a relationship would have to continue for a long time before sex would be tried. Link to post Share on other sites
kumiko_itoe Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 @jay williams Opposites attract only in some way. Now, there are more women who are asexual compared to men (actual ratio, I don't have the latest figures) and before asexuality was a known thing and even considered acceptable, many women gave sex and motivated themselves to enjoy sex NOT BECAUSE THEY LOVE IT, but rather because they wanted to be showered with affection and attention. Based on my observation of my relatives. Those on my dad's side are quite close minded and"traditional" whereby they believe a "TRUE MAN" should never carry anything for a woman, be seen playing with or nurturing children, helping with housework or giving lots of hugs and kisses to his woman (all these are considered to be a woman's job and only a man who is tied to his mother's apron strings would do such things and aren't deemed respectable). Thus, their wives truly make an effort in sex because that is when their husbands would be truly gentle, kind and romantic. Regarding whether a relationship continues for a long time before intercourse or not, it depends on the couple. I have friends who do it on the first date itself....while some 3-4 years later. I personally married my husband after we knew and dated for 3 months. We just know each other's limit. Link to post Share on other sites
AllThisTime Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 9:13 AM, jay williams said: They say opposites attract. So I think that women who don't like sex get married to men who are nuts about sex. @jay williams and they also say something about birds of a feather. so..... ?? And really, its not about women who "don't like sex". I'd LIKE to like sex, and the romantic part of me still envisions the tender moments etc etc. I used to explain asexuality to myself (before I realized it was a thing) using the old fashioned term "frigid". Like we are appliances or something. I had partners who were not necessarily "nuts about sex" but anyone sexual would be considered nuts about sex by someone (me) who doesn't do sex. Link to post Share on other sites
AllThisTime Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 9:29 AM, jay williams said: How did this result in striking through the words? And how can it be undone? I think its in the selections along the top.... see ?? Link to post Share on other sites
jay williams Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 13 hours ago, kumiko_itoe said: @jay williams Opposites attract only in some way. Now, there are more women who are asexual compared to men (actual ratio, I don't have the latest figures) and before asexuality was a known thing and even considered acceptable, many women gave sex and motivated themselves to enjoy sex NOT BECAUSE THEY LOVE IT, but rather because they wanted to be showered with affection and attention. Based on my observation of my relatives. Those on my dad's side are quite close minded and"traditional" whereby they believe a "TRUE MAN" should never carry anything for a woman, be seen playing with or nurturing children, helping with housework or giving lots of hugs and kisses to his woman (all these are considered to be a woman's job and only a man who is tied to his mother's apron strings would do such things and aren't deemed respectable). Thus, their wives truly make an effort in sex because that is when their husbands would be truly gentle, kind and romantic. Regarding whether a relationship continues for a long time before intercourse or not, it depends on the couple. I have friends who do it on the first date itself....while some 3-4 years later. I personally married my husband after we knew and dated for 3 months. We just know each other's limit. What I know best is from a male perspective, since I am a male. Significantly, that perspective includes being around males all of my life: childhood friends, being in locker rooms, going to bars, talking about sex with other guys, etc. I have noticed since a long time ago that I was a bit different from a typical guy. For most guys, if they see a woman that turns them on, the first thought is: I would love to f_ck her. No, it is not, I would love to make love to her. No, it is not, I would love to tenderly shower her with pleasure and affection. For most guys, wanting to f_ck her is to want to thrust his penis into her body and squirt as much as he can until his balls feel totally emptied out. I keep saying that this is true for most guys. Unluckily for me, I have never felt that way. For me, I don't desire to genitally penetrate some other person's body. I don't dream about it. I don't think about it, much less yearn to do it. To me, the act of sex seems almost silly, stupid, superfluous, perhaps even ritualistic? Link to post Share on other sites
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