Exclusion of asexuals from LGBT community

[3Xi3X]

People lash out at things they do not understand. They are afraid of change. Of something new. It threatens their comfortable bubble that they call their life.

 

But life goes on. New presidents are elected. People die. People are born. Art is created. Wars are fought. Change occurs whether we like it or not. And whether they want to accept it or not.

 

I personally think that LGBTQ+ includes us. We aren’t “heterosexual”. We aren’t the “norm”. We get accused of being this or that. We get asked introverting questions that make us doubt ourselves. We have been bullied.

 

I think its easier to view it has eithe LGBTQ+ or not. Instead of a bunch of tiny little factions. 

 

I mean technically there is one group really: Human. 

[microlabelAbolitionist]

21 hours ago, 3Xi3X said:

People lash out at things they do not understand. They are afraid of change. Of something new. It threatens their comfortable bubble that they call their life.

 

But life goes on. New presidents are elected. People die. People are born. Art is created. Wars are fought. Change occurs whether we like it or not. And whether they want to accept it or not.

 

I personally think that LGBTQ+ includes us. We aren’t “heterosexual”. We aren’t the “norm”. We get accused of being this or that. We get asked introverting questions that make us doubt ourselves. We have been bullied.

 

I think its easier to view it has eithe LGBTQ+ or not. Instead of a bunch of tiny little factions. 

 

I mean technically there is one group really: Human. 

if  LGBTQ+  just means anyone who is not heterosexual or if they are heterosexual anyone outside the norm (if they have some kind of kink that is considered outside the norm i would argue that having some kind of kink is actually the norm its just not openly talked about but apparently people think otherwise) anyone who is not heterosexual + heterosexual outside the norm sexually (or romantically in their minds) then yes asexuals should be included of course - on the basis of not being heterosexual 

 

this leads to the interesting reality that the vast majority of human beings are LGBTQ+ 

[3Xi3X]

I don’t know if I fully understood everything you said. But, I don’t think a kink has anything to do with it. Heterosexuality is the orientation the majority of the world seems to label themselves as. So any other sexual orientation could be considered in their eyes “outside the norm”. That’s what I meant.

 

Again, this is just my opinion/observation.

[microlabelAbolitionist]

2 minutes ago, 3Xi3X said:

I don’t know if I fully understood everything you said. But, I don’t think a kink has anything to do with it. Heterosexuality is the orientation the majority of the world seems to label themselves as. So any other sexual orientation could be considered in their eyes “outside the norm”. That’s what I meant.

 

Again, this is just my opinion/observation.

LGBTQ+ is including kink at pride parades now youll see specific kinks and fetishes on display everything from people wearing diapers to bdsm its becoming progressively more inclusive and your right things evolve and change there is good in almost every person in society realizing hey we are all LGBTQ+ (although i suspect before that time comes gay people who originally founded it will break off and invent a new group and learn to have stricter guidelines for inclusion this time that being are you a homosexual or not) but i think there will be some comical awareness in the future of so.ething such as this that is so inclusive and constantly changing its guidelines to become more inclusive 

[microlabelAbolitionist]

47 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Think about it. It's just not possible for the vast majority of people to be outside the norm. It's like everyone being an above average driver. 

 

the perceived norm and the actual norm are two different things its more common than not for people to have some kind of fetish or deviation from the cultural idea of a normal or perfect person that in reality most people do not live up to 

[will123]

Reading posts about how some aces identified before they knew about asexuality. Bisexual or lesbian seem to be common thoughts. When they do find out about asexuality it is an identity that they had never heard of.

 

I have known about asexuality and identified as asexual since 2005. However, I have seen next to nothing in the mainstream media about asexuality even though the LGBT+ (looking at the acronym, we're just part of the '+') community is well exposed. Attaching our wagon to that train doesnt seem to be spreading awareness of asexuality in my books.

[will123]

Not sure if this is 'on' the reporter or the organizers. A village about an hour north of where I live will be holding their annual Pride Weekend. The article goes on to say members of the LGBTQ2S community have been holding it for the past 28 years. The term is used twice in the article.

[I, Joan]

@will123What does the 2S even stand for? 

[will123]

24 minutes ago, I, Joan said:

@will123What does the 2S even stand for? 

Two Spirited. I think it's used predominately in Canada. Indigenous people apparently refer to non-heterosexuals as 'two spirited'.

[I, Joan]

2 hours ago, will123 said:

Two Spirited. I think it's used predominately in Canada. Indigenous people apparently refer to non-heterosexuals as 'two spirited'.

Ah, thank you! Wouldn’t have guessed that. 

[will123]

5 minutes ago, I, Joan said:

Ah, thank you! Wouldn’t have guessed that. 

Seems redundant if you ask me.

[Stripeslife17]

I personally like to identify myself as a part of the LGBT+ because we stand a much better chance at reaching our goals with more people. If we were included, the asexuals could become more support for the other members and the other members could become more support for us. It's estimated that only about 1% of the US population identifies as asexual (I don't know what it is for other parts of the world). We are less likely to be noticed and have our voice heard with 1% of people than with the 7% of American adults who identified as LGBT+ in 2016. Anyway, this is the comment I left on the video.

 

It's just like high school all over again. "No you can't sit with us." Sorry. That was a joke. I honestly respect your opinion and see where you get it. However, I have several reasons why I disagree. I think that if someone wants to identify themselves as LGBT, then they should be able to. I am asexual and I currently identify as panromantic, though I'm still trying to figure everything out. So this is just my opinion coming from that viewpoint. 1. If everyone had to fend for themselves, we would make a lot less progress. For example, if gay people were the only ones fighting for gay rights and trans people were the only ones fighting for trans rights, we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have made. Clearly, there is still a long way to go in all regards, however, we have come a long way. So I think it makes sense for people with similar problems to stick together and not divide among themselves. 2. Asexuality is a sexual orientation just like any other sexual orientation and it is a minority. 3. Similar to bisexuality and other lesser-known sexual orientations, there is an erasure aspect. There are a lot of people who don't believe it exists. 4. Similar to homosexual relationships, many major religions, including most people in the fundamentalist Christian church believe that asexual relationships aren't valid. Many people believe that sex is what validates a marriage. 5. Asexuals seem to experience similar emotions and experiences when they are discovering their sexuality and when coming out to their family and friends. 6. Conversion therapy is a thing for asexuals... 7. If you extend the acronym by just one more letter, you get LGBTQ+. The Q stands for queer. The literal definition of queer is "odd; strange." So most people that I know agree that queer is just strange from a conventional viewpoint. Therefore, asexuality fits under that category. Anyway, you can agree with me or not. You are entitled to your opinion. I just think that saying that one sexual orientation is the only one that isn't included in the LGBT+ community is strange. It leaves that one group of people to fend for themselves when they could make a lot more progress and help the entire community if they were allowed to be included should they want to be. Regardless of if you agree with me, please don't say that asexuals don't experience discrimination... I can only speak for myself and my experiences. But I was molested at 12, sexually assaulted at 13, and sexually harassed at 15, 17, and 19 all because of my repulsion towards sexual activity. Don't say that this isn't discrimination and don't say that it is rare. If it was rare then maybe it only would have happened to me once or twice. I almost lost the roof over my head when I came out to my mother. I was bullied from middle school till I dropped out of college and even to this day, to the point of several suicide attempts over the years. Just because someone doesn't face all the same types of discrimination as someone else, doesn't mean that it isn't there.

[I, Joan]

@Stripeslife17 That was so beautifully articulated. I agree whole heartedly. 

[SithLord]

On 7/31/2019 at 10:30 AM, will123 said:

Two Spirited. I think it's used predominately in Canada. Indigenous people apparently refer to non-heterosexuals as 'two spirited'.

In my sociology class (so acknowledging this doesn't come from two-spirited people) we were told two-spirited actually means a non-binary or trans person. That their two spirits are both a boy and a girl. Not sure where it's used but we were talking about gender identities and cultures with non-binary systems and we were taught two-spirited was something existing in a few (or maybe only one? This class was 5 years ago, forgive me) indigenous North American tribes. 

[will123]

I was just going by how Canadian media has explained it. Obviously as accurately as the frequency in which asexuality is ever mentioned...

[Jacen]

Personally,

I don't think that aces are LGBT. That is not to say that asexuals are not entitled to dignity, rights, social validation, and safe spaces. They definitely are. But LGBT safe spaces are dependent on common experience, and LGBT resources exist to address common needs. Aces often encounter ignorance and a general lack of understanding which can be extremely hurtful. But cis-het aces don't experience the same kind of institutional oppression as gay and trans individuals. They aren't treated unjustly by courts, denied services in various establishments, evicted from or denied housing, kicked out and financially cut off as teenagers, denied or fired from jobs, refused healthcare, or denied education opportunities. They are not seen as morally bankrupt or disgusting. Cis-het asexual people do not generally encounter harassment or risk violence simply by going out in public with their partner or because they dress as they identify. Again, this isn't to invalidate the obstacles and hardships encountered by asexuals. It is only to say that they are different. All minority groups aren't the same. They don't all relate to each other, and in the case of LGBT people and asexuals, there have been ongoing issues of ignorance and intolerance on both sides, both within community spaces and especially online. The minority groups included in the LGBT community were and continued to be linked by common experiences and a common struggle. These commonalities are important for keeping safe spaces truly safe both for asexuals and for LGBT individuals. 

[Loading]

I'm an atheist (and asexual).  I view asexuality in the same way I view atheism, in that it isn't so much of a "thing" but rather a lack of a thing.

So how can you be considered part of a group of things when you're not a thing??  Like, it urks me when people call atheism a religion, because it's not, it's an absence of religion.

Being atheist doesn't mean "oh you must believe in science".  No.  (I mean, I do "believe" in science, even though science and belief do not go together at all, science exists irrespective of anyone's "belief").  You can be a flat earther and an atheist (I mean, not likely obviously but you get the picture).

 

I view asexuality in the same light.  I'm just as related to heterosexuals as I am homosexuals because I'm related to neither equally.  So I can't be lumped into the LGBT community because I'd also have to be lumped into the non-LBGT community and that just doesn't make sense.  The only people I have in common is other asexuals.

 

Even gays and straights can understand one another.  If you find the opposite sex sexy you can understand how someone that finds the same sex sexy feels.  Try explaining love to an asexual that doesn't feel love.  Try explaining colour to a blind person.  Asexuality is to sexuality what bald is to hair styles or what not collecting stamps is to having a hobby.

[VibeN]

I wouldn't worry about what exclusionists think. Some of them have tried to erase bisexuals and transgender people from the LGBT environment

[MandySparkles]

I feel a bit conflicted on this. I'm biromanic Demisexual, but I've only recently realized I was bi. Personally, I think asexuals and aromanics should be included in the LGBT+ community, at least to the extent of being allowed to attend Pride events, be welcomed into LGBT+ safe spaces (as long as they are respectful), and be allowed to give voice to another view and set of experiences. And while one could make the argument that asexuality being an "invisible" orientation, therefore not experiencing the blantant oppression that other members of the LGBT+ community do, asexuals do understand being outside expected norms. I think we are stronger if we stand together, because at the end of the day, everyone involved just wants to be able to be who they are.

 

That being said, I feel conflicted on considering myself LGBT+ now that I've realized I'm Bi. I feel like that I've somehow been granted membership to a community on a technicality of me being more than demisexual. That somehow, even if not as obvious as other members of the community have experienced it, my  struggles as demisexual was not valid or important. I mentally compare it to the LGB alliance groups that have popped up to exclude trans people (though there more direct consequences to trans rights and equality from that group). I'm not sure if this makes sense or is accurate. I went a bit all over the place

[Carbon-12]

Personally, I don't identify strongly with the LGBT community, mostly because I don't have any shared experiences with them. My family/friends haven't disowned me or judged me; the worst that's happened is a bit of disbelief. I'm not really oppressed. I'm also not in a same-sex relationship nor do I have a strong desire to be in one (or any, for that matter), so I can't relate to the positive feelings either. That's why if someone asked me if I was LGBT, I'd say "sort of" and then explain that I'm asexual. I'm not going to feel like part of a community that I simply don't relate to. To me, being asexual is just a fact, like having a sibling or elbows.

 

However, some asexuals really do feel LGBT on the basis of being outsiders to cishet society. If they have enough experiences in common to feel like they belong in the LGBT community, then they belong. Other folks don't get to decide if you have enough shared experiences to be LGBT or not. That's why I think they should be included - whether they show up is a personal matter, just like how a lesbian/gay/bi/trans person might technically be LGBT but doesn't participate in the community. 

 

Another thing is, I don't think the voice of exclusionists are as prominent irl as they are the internet. I hear my school LGBT club allows asexuals - admittedly, only a couple of people show up every week (I don't go, for above reasons), so if the 1 asexual who I know goes isn't allowed, their participation would drop by a significant percentage 🤣 I've only gotten the "oh that's neat!" response from LGBT folks before. Most of them probably just think "a fellow minority? You know what, I'll take it" - the vast majority aren't going to devote their time, energy, and mental capacity to gatekeep over something this trivial.

[Deathlybathtoys]

Those imbeciles who decided it was a good idea to say that asexuality is not LGBT has some n e r v e

 

[will123]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:37 PM, Carbon-12 said:

Personally, I don't identify strongly with the LGBT community, mostly because I don't have any shared experiences with them. My family/friends haven't disowned me or judged me; the worst that's happened is a bit of disbelief. I'm not really oppressed. I'm also not in a same-sex relationship nor do I have a strong desire to be in one (or any, for that matter), so I can't relate to the positive feelings either. That's why if someone asked me if I was LGBT, I'd say "sort of" and then explain that I'm asexual. I'm not going to feel like part of a community that I simply don't relate to. To me, being asexual is just a fact, like having a sibling or elbows.

 

However, some asexuals really do feel LGBT on the basis of being outsiders to cishet society. If they have enough experiences in common to feel like they belong in the LGBT community, then they belong. Other folks don't get to decide if you have enough shared experiences to be LGBT or not. That's why I think they should be included - whether they show up is a personal matter, just like how a lesbian/gay/bi/trans person might technically be LGBT but doesn't participate in the community. 

 

Another thing is, I don't think the voice of exclusionists are as prominent irl as they are the internet. I hear my school LGBT club allows asexuals - admittedly, only a couple of people show up every week (I don't go, for above reasons), so if the 1 asexual who I know goes isn't allowed, their participation would drop by a significant percentage 🤣 I've only gotten the "oh that's neat!" response from LGBT folks before. Most of them probably just think "a fellow minority? You know what, I'll take it" - the vast majority aren't going to devote their time, energy, and mental capacity to gatekeep over something this trivial.

When I was explaining my asexuality to one friend he asked me if I was part of the LGBT community (and get back to him). In the meantime the thread 'Do you feel part of the rainbow community'. After reading and posting in it, I told him no, for more or less the same reasons you've given. I also told him that I felt no 'pride' in being asexual as I felt it was just part of me like I had brown hair and brown eyes...

[Podsnap]

I joined an LGBT Facebook page and so far have only gotten one asexuality-isn't-real blah, blah, blah, type comment. It's actually been kind of anticlimactic. I was expecting more controversy or possibly to be kicked off by the admin.