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TrippleL

Can anyone relate to this (Ace or Gray-A)?

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TrippleL

I identify as an asexual, but from many discussions I know my experience is somewhat different to other AVEN people, so I have a question:

 

*TMI warning*

 

I identify as a sex-neutral biromantic biaesthetic bisensual asexual (labels, shmables 🙂) because I neither like nor dislike sexual intercourse, I experience romantic, aesthetic and sensual attraction very intensely and I do not experience sexual attraction (if sexual attraction is defined as attraction leading to the desire to have sexual intercourse of any sort).

 

I spent most of my life believing I was heterosexual as I’m biologically male and I find women and female bodies attractive (I won’t discuss attraction to guys for the sake of this post, but it was there too, in the background).

 

So, I can look at a pretty woman and get aroused. I can look at a woman’s body and get aroused. I can touch a woman’s body and get aroused (that sounds creepy; I mean in a consensual way! 🙂). I therefore love foreplay and I get very aroused during it.

 

When foreplay comes to a close and intercourse is due, there’s like a killswitch; I completely lose interest. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy orgasms, but the intercourse bit is completely “meh, whatever”. To deal with this in a relationship I have to move VERY quickly from foreplay to intercourse, then the physical stimulation keeps things working as they should.

 

I feel the physiological need to ejaculate 1-2 times per week. As long as I’m not “overdue” from a physiological point of view, I’d be quite happy having foreplay then going to sleep and not having sex or ejaculating.

 

Might be relevant: I’m sex-neutral when it comes to PIV; averse when it comes to any form of oral (giving or receiving).

 

So, question: Can anyone relate to this? If you can, do you identify as asexual/gray/other? (No wrong answers here, just curious)

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Nowhere Girl

Well... I can't personally relate to this because I'm completely sex-averse (for non-traumatic reasons). The idea of having sex with anyone feels intolerably frightening to me. I'm particularly averse to nudity (to being naked in another person's presence) - it's not a, perhaps more typical, disgust with bodily fluids, it's the feeling that I simply couldn't have sex because I would panic or break down in tears at a very early stage.

At the same time I do feel some kind of sexual-ish attraction. For me it's more than just esthetic attraction, it has a sexual aspect - but it still never leads into wanting to have sex. My sex aversion is strong enough to completely prevent me from ever desiring sex. (And to make it clear: I absolutely wouldn't want to be sex-indifferent or something like that, I cherish my aversion as something which protects me from the possibility of having sex.) How do I identify? I prefer just "sex-averse". Perhaps I'm not asexual in fact. But I feel that I fall within the asexual spectrum as an effectively asexual sex-averse person. I would also like to distance myself from beliefs like "sex aversion is not asexuality" and so on. Technically yes: many asexual people are not sex-averse and some sex-averse people are not asexual. But I believe that people who are "(effectively) asexual for an identifiable reason" have a full right to identify as asexual, should they prefer to. I have just come to experience "sex aversion" as more relevant to my feelings than "(effective) asexuality".

So, as I said, my feelings are quite far from yours and yet I feel that I have something to tell you. Don't get me wrong: I'm not with the Orientation Police ;) and I prefer to avoid tellig people how they should identify. But I just hate the idea that PIV Equals Sex And Foreplay Is Something Inferior. You could simply be a heterosexual person who doesn't like intercourse. Or you could be somewhere on the asexual spectrum, it's up to you how you identify. But even though I have never had any form of sex or any sexual activitites except self-pleasuring (yes, here I do draw a line: autoeroticism is "a sexual activity", but it isn't "sex" - people who only pleasure themselves aren't "having sex with themselves" and have a right to say that they have never had sex), I feel a need to "defend" foreplay as something which is not inferior, nor is it some kind of "failure" if it doesn't lead to intercourse. Preferring foreplay to PIV is more common among female-bodied people, but not limited to them - anyway it's fairly common, PIV is typically much more satisfying for men and a lot of women simply can't orgasm from PIV alone. My feelings are also perhaps influenced by my homoromanticism - I find it offensive when some people believe that lesbians can't have "real sex" because there's no penis involved (it's a double-bind situation anyway - when they use a dildo, they are accused of "imitating heterosexual intercourse").

It's up to you to decide how you prefer to identify, but just know that you are not "abnormal" or anything for not desiring PIV. You could potentially have a completely successful sex life if you find a girlfriend who would be fine with petting only and would, too, be free of the belief that it's somehow "a failure" or "immature" if a different-sex couple doesn't have PIV.

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SherlockHomes

I've never had any sexual experiences with anyone, so I don't know how I would respond to them, but I can kind of relate to what you are saying. Sex doesn't appeal to me, but other intimate things (kissing, sharing a bed, other stuff like that), can interest me with the right person.

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MLJ
9 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

So, as I said, my feelings are quite far from yours and yet I feel that I have something to tell you. Don't get me wrong: I'm not with the Orientation Police ;) and I prefer to avoid tellig people how they should identify. But I just hate the idea that PIV Equals Sex And Foreplay Is Something Inferior.

I just have to say that I really agree with this. I think sexual attraction is a desire to engage in sexual activity with a partner; I don't think it's a desire to engage in PIV. Partly because I think there are lots of other activities that count as "sexual" as well, and partly because it makes the penis what defines sexual activity. Not every sexual likes every sexual activity.

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TrippleL
10 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

So, as I said, my feelings are quite far from yours and yet I feel that I have something to tell you. Don't get me wrong: I'm not with the Orientation Police ;) and I prefer to avoid tellig people how they should identify. But I just hate the idea that PIV Equals Sex And Foreplay Is Something Inferior.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You’ve come at this from an angle I wasn’t expecting which is great, food for thought 🙂

 

I probably should clarify that I used PIV as an illustrative example for my question. I do not consider nor think PIV is sex and foreplay is inferior 🙂

 

Basically, the “killswitch” I mentioned above kicks in when any partnered genitalia contact or stimulation is due; it does feel like the way I’m wired, hence why I relate to the definition of “does not experience sexual attraction” as opposed to “does not desire partnered sex.”

 

Once I get going I do not dislike PIV, but I do feel indifferent about it. I guess my aroused state disappears, but it comes back to an extent from the physical stimulation leading to orgasm (maybe? Not sure).

 

I don’t mean this in an offensive way to anyone that enjoys partnered sex, but to me the physical act of partnered genital stimulation of any kind feels like I’m using the person as a sex toy.

 

11 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

Preferring foreplay to PIV is more common among female-bodied people, but not limited to them

Interesting. I identify as a mixture of male & female so maybe this could be gender-related too?

 

11 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

I find it offensive when some people believe that lesbians can't have "real sex" because there's no penis involved (it's a double-bind situation anyway - when they use a dildo, they are accused of "imitating heterosexual intercourse").

Completely agree, that is massively offensive.

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TrippleL
1 hour ago, MLJ said:

I just have to say that I really agree with this. I think sexual attraction is a desire to engage in sexual activity with a partner; I don't think it's a desire to engage in PIV. Partly because I think there are lots of other activities that count as "sexual" as well, and partly because it makes the penis what defines sexual activity. Not every sexual likes every sexual activity.

Thanks for your thoughts 🙂

 

I perhaps used PIV as a too limited example in my question.

 

I guess what I’ve struggled with is: is desiring partnered foreplay that does not involve any genital contact from/by either partner, and after which I do not feel the need to orgasm or “do anything about” my aroused state, sexual attraction or a mix of aesthetic/sensual attraction? I spent my life believing it’s the former, but if I’m completely honest with myself in my case it feels like the latter.

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roland.o

I'd call it sensual.

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MLJ
8 hours ago, TrippleL said:

I guess what I’ve struggled with is: is desiring partnered foreplay that does not involve any genital contact from/by either partner, and after which I do not feel the need to orgasm or “do anything about” my aroused state, sexual attraction or a mix of aesthetic/sensual attraction? I spent my life believing it’s the former, but if I’m completely honest with myself in my case it feels like the latter.

It's a good question, and - considering how there is no consistent definition of what "sex" is (as that other thread going on demonstrates) - it's a little hard to answer. IMO "sex" typically involves genitals and a desire for orgasm. I'd also include anal sex and probably some other things if I spent more time thinking about it. I don't know exactly what you mean by "foreplay" but if it is pretty much just kissing, hugging, and caressing that sounds like sensual attraction to me.

 

I do think that "attraction" is an intense feeling. If you feel that towards sensual activities and are able to enjoy them, then you can also really tell the difference in how you DON'T feel that towards traditionally "sexual" activities. Finding PIV and other genital contact as "meh" sounds like asexuality to me - NOT attraction. Again, I don't know exactly what it is that you like or don't like for foreplay, but from what you've written here, I do think it is reasonable to call yourself an asexual who experiences sensual attraction.

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TrippleL
3 minutes ago, MLJ said:

pretty much just kissing, hugging, and caressing

Yep, that’s it 🙂

 

4 minutes ago, MLJ said:

I do think it is reasonable to call yourself an asexual who experiences sensual attraction.

Thank you for the thoughtful answer. Whilst this post was not about validation, it was certainly about a sense check and I’m glad to hear you reached the same conclusion as me 🙂

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alien.hedgehog

I never had sex and I don't really want to experience it but cuddles and other stuff like that just seem so adorable for me. My dream relationship is to have a best friend(our relationship completely lacking romantic and sexual feelings) that I just could cuddle with from time to time. I'm usually not a touchy person but I really want to experience this things because they seem so cute and non-sexual and fun.

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Howard

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. You're sex positive if you think people having sex is ok and people not having sex is ok too. I definitely can relate to the arousal that goes when attention is paid to my genitalia. It's difficult for me to maintain an erection in that situation and even more to have an orgasm with a partner. Because of this, I can safely say I experience aesthetic and sensual attrations, but not sexual attractions.

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dino_damage
On 2/20/2019 at 2:47 PM, Howard said:

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. You're sex positive if you think people having sex is ok and people not having sex is ok too. I definitely can relate to the arousal that goes when attention is paid to my genitalia. It's difficult for me to maintain an erection in that situation and even more to have an orgasm with a partner. Because of this, I can safely say I experience aesthetic and sensual attrations, but not sexual attractions.

In that case, I'm certainly sex-positive; it's just that I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone, period. I enjoy sex comedies and the sexed-up antics of my allosexual friends. Heck, I even play along to their antics. But the dividing line between I and my allosexual friends is that I don't really want to participate in those sexual antics and they do. Still, just because I don't want to have sex doesn't mean that nobody can. My outlook on sex and on life shouldn't be the norm, even if I sometimes wish it were. To me, the world would lose a lot of wonderful literature, such as The Satyricon, The Canterbury Tales, and Ulysses, if the majority of people weren't so goddamn horny all the time. 

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2XD

Im pretty much the exact same way.

I enjoy making out and everything, but actual Sex (as in PIV) is just not enjoyable. I used to think that this was kinda normal for girls, but I guess a lot of girls actually do enjoy sex. 

I was in a sexual relationship for a long time and whenever we would make out, I started to pull back at some point because of where it would lead. 

 

I personally only have a female perspective on this. But if it helps, the guy I'm talking to at the moment seems to feel that same way as you too. Can have sex, but just doesn't see any point in it (other than making a baby) and has no need for it. 

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FrizzyBee
On 2/3/2019 at 8:07 AM, TrippleL said:

Thanks for your thoughts 🙂

 

I perhaps used PIV as a too limited example in my question.

 

I guess what I’ve struggled with is: is desiring partnered foreplay that does not involve any genital contact from/by either partner, and after which I do not feel the need to orgasm or “do anything about” my aroused state, sexual attraction or a mix of aesthetic/sensual attraction? I spent my life believing it’s the former, but if I’m completely honest with myself in my case it feels like the latter.

Hey. Im a newbie hence the late reply. I'm completely with you and have felt the same. After thinking about it for myself - I would also say it is the latter. Glad this forum has helped you and thanks for sharing. It has help me me too! :)

Edited by FrizzyBee
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TrippleL

That’s great 🙂 We seem to be in the minority, but it’s great that a few people relate to this (I’ve had a few PMs based on this too) 🙂

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FrizzyBee
17 hours ago, TrippleL said:

That’s great 🙂 We seem to be in the minority, but it’s great that a few people relate to this (I’ve had a few PMs based on this too) 🙂

Yeah it is nice that have that in commone.  and that's great you have bad messages too. I've yet to have that privalidge but haven't posted any topics myself yet too. Anyway,

Best wishes :)

Edited by FrizzyBee
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Bloc
On 2/2/2019 at 8:30 PM, TrippleL said:

 

Might be relevant: I’m sex-neutral when it comes to PIV; averse when it comes to any form of oral (giving or receiving).

 

So, question: Can anyone relate to this? If you can, do you identify as asexual/gray/other? (No wrong answers here, just curious)

I am averse to anything directly involving my genitals due to dysphoria. Giving oral is something I am neutral about, but haven't tried it, although I am a bit curious about it. "Foreplay" like making out and caressing each other is what I like and I can really enjoy orgasms from non-genital stimulation.

 

On 2/3/2019 at 9:07 AM, TrippleL said:

 

I guess what I’ve struggled with is: is desiring partnered foreplay that does not involve any genital contact from/by either partner, and after which I do not feel the need to orgasm or “do anything about” my aroused state, sexual attraction or a mix of aesthetic/sensual attraction? I spent my life believing it’s the former, but if I’m completely honest with myself in my case it feels like the latter.

I am not sure what it is for me. And gender dysphoria does not make it easier to figure out. This is why I call myself grey asexual. If I have an orgasm or more it is nice and if not I still enjoy it.

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TrippleL

As I understand myself better I’m finding clearer ways of expressing myself in all areas of orientation and gender. Here’s my latest realisation/clarification:

 

I enjoy foreplay from an aesthetic and sensual perspective up until any underwear is removed 🙂

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IceKing

Interesting, it rings a bell.

Whenever I think about my last relationships (or better worded: attempts at relationships) I'm moved by how much I enjoyed being sensual with them. I have a hard time being sensual in general (normally rather touch averse) but if the circumstances are right it's the best. Cuddle up to someone, hugging closely, stroking their body (though not naked) and getting the same is very intimate and intense to me. It's also my way of showing someone I like them very much and want them to feel good.

Best part of "sexy time" was always the start and I feel exactly the same - would have preferred it to stop before the "actual thing" takes off. I enjoy the feeling of being aroused if it happens but I don't want or need to follow my slight arousal.

I also admire female, sometimes male, bodies without wanting to touch them. Just look and enjoy.

This made me so confused and conflicted when I thought about my feelings towards sex (& what usually leads to it).

This is the physical contact I find myself yearning for sometimes and wish to have it again.

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AnnaAce

I can relate to a lot of what you’ve written, but I am just now finding out what it is called so I haven’t had time to give myself a label. For a long time I’ve struggled with the idea that something is wrong with me. I find guys aesthetically attractive, I feel a certain way about them, I have had sex but I have never really enjoyed it the way i think it is supposed to be enjoyed. I don’t need it nor do I want it. However, I do enjoy hugging, kissing, cuddling. I also enjoy orgasms but really only with myself, and even so not very often. I think for a long time I have mixed up sensual desire with sexual desire. I just want to be close to someone and enjoy touch, smell, etc. but not be bound to have sex. Most of the time when my husband and I have sex I’m just waiting for it to be over. I don’t mind giving oral also, I think more for the power I have doing it than the desire to do so, but don’t enjoy receiving it at all. So asexual with sensual desires maybe? I don’t know, still learning 

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TrippleL
6 hours ago, IceKing said:

Interesting, it rings a bell.

Whenever I think about my last relationships (or better worded: attempts at relationships) I'm moved by how much I enjoyed being sensual with them. I have a hard time being sensual in general (normally rather touch averse) but if the circumstances are right it's the best. Cuddle up to someone, hugging closely, stroking their body (though not naked) and getting the same is very intimate and intense to me. It's also my way of showing someone I like them very much and want them to feel good.

Best part of "sexy time" was always the start and I feel exactly the same - would have prefered it to stop before the "actual thing" takes off. I enjoy the feeling of being aroused if it happens but I don't want or need to follow my slight arousal.

I also admire female, sometimes male, bodies without wanting to touch them. Just look and enjoy.

This made me so confused and conflicted when I thought about my feelings towards sex (& what usually leads to it).

This is the physical contact I find myself yearning for sometimes and wish to have it again.

Thanks for sharing 🙂

 

I still believe we’re in the minority, and I’d hazard a guess that the majority of people who feel this way still identify as hetero/homo/bisexual, not knowing that their feelings mean they may be asexual/gray-a.

 

It’s nice to receive a steady (small) stream of messages and PMs from people who relate. My aim was never validation, but it is comforting to not feel alone 🙂

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TrippleL
4 hours ago, AmIAce said:

I can relate to a lot of what you’ve written, but I am just now finding out what it is called so I haven’t had time to give myself a label. For a long time I’ve struggled with the idea that something is wrong with me. I find guys aesthetically attractive, I feel a certain way about them, I have had sex but I have never really enjoyed it the way i think it is supposed to be enjoyed. I don’t need it nor do I want it. However, I do enjoy hugging, kissing, cuddling. I also enjoy orgasms but really only with myself, and even so not very often. I think for a long time I have mixed up sensual desire with sexual desire. I just want to be close to someone and enjoy touch, smell, etc. but not be bound to have sex. Most of the time when my husband and I have sex I’m just waiting for it to be over. I don’t mind giving oral also, I think more for the power I have doing it than the desire to do so, but don’t enjoy receiving it at all. So asexual with sensual desires maybe? I don’t know, still learning 

I read this post and the one you posted in the welcome lounge and I relate a lot 🙂

 

I won’t tell you what labels to use, but as you have probably seen above in this thread my experience is very similar and I identify as asexual. Whilst I didn’t use that terminology above, I’d add that I’m hypersensual 🙂

 

Good luck with your exploration and if you ever have any questions I’d be happy to (try to) answer them here or via PM 🙂

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AnnaAce
3 hours ago, TrippleL said:

 

 

I won’t tell you what labels to use, but as you have probably seen above in this thread my experience is very similar and I identify as asexual. Whilst I didn’t use that terminology above, I’d add that I’m hypersensual 🙂

 

I think asexual and hyper-sensual is very accurate for me, but this is what has confused me for years. I have been to this forum before years ago and while I agreed with some things, I still felt like I was on the outside. I chalked it up to low libido and left it at that for a while but I don’t think I can live with that anymore. I’ve tried to fit into the “sexual” box for my relationship but it’s tiring. I have a hard time giving in to my sensual desires too since my husband is sexual and it will always lead to sex (or a great disappointment for him). To be honest I didn’t think there were guys out there who felt the same way as I do. It’s good to know. 🙂

 

 

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TrippleL
27 minutes ago, AmIAce said:

I think asexual and hyper-sensual is very accurate for me, but this is what has confused me for years. I have been to this forum before years ago and while I agreed with some things, I still felt like I was on the outside. I chalked it up to low libido and left it at that for a while but I don’t think I can live with that anymore. I’ve tried to fit into the “sexual” box for my relationship but it’s tiring. I have a hard time giving in to my sensual desires too since my husband is sexual and it will always lead to sex (or a great disappointment for him). To be honest I didn’t think there were guys out there who felt the same way as I do. It’s good to know. 🙂

 

 

When I first found AVEN I read all the FAQs and determined there and then I was asexual. I then joined the forum and read all the FAQs there and determined I was definitely asexual (and biromantic)

 

I then started reading posts on the forum and quickly realised my experiences were quite different to other people’s.

 

I kept checking back to the FAQs and was like “yes, definitely still meet the definition(s)”

 

Early on I got into a debate about whether my experiences were asexual. I kept things in the third person and hypothetical, but people basically said I’m not asexual. Great. Check definition: yep, definitely asexual.

 

Just as I was feeling low I received a PM very similar to your message and it made my day 🙂 It was from someone who’s been on AVEN longer than I had and had only met 1 other person who felt exactly the same (so we’re definitely in the minority)

 

After a few weeks I decided to start this thread, partially to get a sense check, but also to let other people who feel like this know that they’re not alone 🙂

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IceKing
14 hours ago, AmIAce said:

I just want to be close to someone and enjoy touch, smell, etc. but not be bound to have sex

5 hours ago, AmIAce said:

I think asexual and hyper-sensual is very accurate for me, but this is what has confused me for years. I have been to this forum before years ago and while I agreed with some things, I still felt like I was on the outside

This is a little mind-blowing right now. I've hesitated to call myself asexual too (meanwhile I do because I can relate so much to the things aces say about sex and sexual attraction confuses me) because I like(d) being close like this with certain people. Sensuality feels so good but when the expectation is there to have sex, which for me starts with touching genitals, I feel pressured and it destroys the mood. If I imagine I could be close to someone without them wantig to ever have sex I feel a lot better at the whole touch-topic in general. Maybe this is where my touch aversion stems from...it wouldn't surprise me as I once been with someone who didn't respect my boundaries.
I don't agree that caresses need lead up to sex. I mean if I stroke someones' back, even when lying in bed, that's all I want to do it's not an indirect message of "I want to get into your pants". No, please keep them on.
I relate to your confusion so much. Hyper-sensual sounds right for me as well. This is a lightbulb moment for me, wow.
I think the feeling of being outside is because some people see these sensual actions as sexual while I don't (or you or TrippleL). It's very subjective in this area.
I don't feel the desire or drive to release myself with another human and don't want them to touch my e.g. groin area.
 

9 hours ago, TrippleL said:

I still believe we’re in the minority, and I’d hazard a guess that the majority of people who feel this way still identify as hetero/homo/bisexual, not knowing that their feelings mean they may be asexual/gray-a.

I certainly believe so too.
There was a time where I just assumed I'm some kind of sexual. I got into relationships and realized there is no sexual attraction to my lovers and always felt so thrown out of mood when they were about to touch me sexually. I always had the reaction of "why do you feel the need to do this? I felt so good before but now it's over *sigh*".
Then I thought the famous sentence: "maybe they aren't the right person for me". But my feelings never changed regardless of who I was with.
I'm happy you created this topic and it's great people PM you about it. It's also superb you talk so openly about your feelings. It gave me the courage to do the same and I know myself a bit better now. Thank you!
P.S: I had the same reaction when I read the FAQs for the first time. That's why I created an account here.

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TrippleL
26 minutes ago, IceKing said:

I'm happy you created this topic and it's great people PM you about it. It's also superb you talk so openly about your feelings. It gave me the courage to do the same and I know myself a bit better now. Thank you!
P.S: I had the same reaction when I read the FAQs for the first time. That's why I created an account here.

🙂🙂🙂🙂

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Fluffy Femme Guy
18 hours ago, IceKing said:

Cuddle up to someone, hugging closely, stroking their body (though not naked) and getting the same is very intimate and intense to me. It's also my way of showing someone I like them very much and want them to feel good.

I found out semi-recently that I actually enjoy that stuff.
I would've had a hard time enjoying that as a teenager because I wouldn't want it to be construed as sexual.

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TrippleL

I’ve now chatted to around 10 people who relate to this, so still a tiny minority amongst AVEN users, but it’s interesting how we all relate to it ~100%.

 

I theorised we were missing a label within asexuality, but actually the correct term may simply be Hypersensual Asexual 🙂

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Bloc
2 hours ago, IceKing said:

I don't agree that caresses need lead up to sex. I mean if I stroke someones' back, even when lying in bed, that's all I want to do it's not an indirect message of "I want to get into your pants". No, please keep them on.

That's so me. However bringing someone to orgasm or being brought to it without touching any genitals is kind of fun. It's kind of weird to say my favorite kind of sex is without any genitals involved but this is still sex for me and I like it. But it is not better than a deep non-sexual cuddling session it is just different. In both cases all people involved are exposing their vulnerabilities and trusting their partners. I believe this is what make creates a deep connection. I never directly touched someones genitals and it is something I fancy, but would do it for a partner.

 

I think this belongs to the grey ace spectrum. When learning about asexuality it resonated with me but at the same time I knew I am not completely asexual and also not allosexual. Somehow I am in so many way "in between" in my sexual and romantic orientation, in my gender. I m not sure if a new label would help me describing my experiences.

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Basrive
43 minutes ago, TrippleL said:

I’ve now chatted to around 10 people who relate to this, so still a tiny minority amongst AVEN users, but it’s interesting how we all relate to it ~100%.

 

I theorised we were missing a label within asexuality, but actually the correct term may simply be Hypersensual Asexual 🙂

Thanks for cross posting this! I stopped browsing the grey part of the forums since the experiences only half-fit. You are my new hero.

 

I can be crazy sensual, but the pressure of performing any “acts” just destroys my mood. You can leave the jeans on, thanks.

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