A. Sterling Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 So, an open ended question. I was just curious about people's interpretations of Christianity or the impression they get from or about it in general, in practice, and in theory. (No right answer, no strings attached, just curious... I find that people get suspicious about religion questions.) Link to post Share on other sites
SeeYa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 ... The question is too open, I can't even begin to think of a suitable answer... =\ I'm not so much suspicious as cautious of religious questions... especially over the internet... Link to post Share on other sites
fuzzipueo Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I've always been suspicious of Christianity, even when I was a kid. Any religion that tells someone their ancestors will go to hell because they weren't baptized is not a belief system I want any part of (don't remember where I read this, but I remember it being about a Viking's conversion). On top of that, I grew up in the 80s with the Bakkers - Tammy-Faye and Jimmy - a pair of schyster TeleEvangelists who took their "followers" for every penny they could. Left me with a profound distrust of Evangelism. I'm amazed that people still fall for that sort of nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites
MacAran Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I consider myself a Christian, and I'm not really sure what to do with this either. Other than writing an entire treatise on my personal beliefs and the (somewhat open) formal strictures of my very very protestant church, I don't know what you're looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
A. Sterling Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, StomachGod said: ... The question is too open, I can't even begin to think of a suitable answer... =\ I'm not so much suspicious as cautious of religious questions... especially over the internet... Mostly I'm trying to figure out what first comes to mind when you think of the religion which is why it's so open. If you'd like a more specific question how about what is your attitude towards Christianity or your understanding of Christian's attitudes towards other people. Also it's good to be cautious over the internet. I just keep running in to really strong and conflicting opinions about Christianity in my classes and socially in general, in real life, not just on the internet, so I'm trying to get a collection of viewpoints seeing as the people I've encountered in real life are not very open to talking about it either way. (Although most people are all for explaining why someone else is wrong.) Link to post Share on other sites
SeeYa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, A. Sterling said: Mostly I'm trying to figure out what first comes to mind when you think of the religion which is why it's so open. If you'd like a more specific question how about what is your attitude towards Christianity or your understanding of Christian's attitudes towards other people. Also it's good to be cautious over the internet. I just keep running in to really strong and conflicting opinions about Christianity in my classes and socially in general, in real life, not just on the internet, so I'm trying to get a collection of viewpoints seeing as the people I've encountered in real life are not very open to talking about it either way. (Although most people are all for explaining why someone else is wrong.) That's something I can work with I think 😃 I would say Christianity is something I am very cautious of, it has a bad reputation in my family, and there are other details which don't really add up for me... Christian attitudes are variable just like people. I know a number of Christians who are genuinely good people and all that. I also know a number of Christians who are: hateful and manipulative, the type to look down on others, or plain out use it as an excuse for their criminality... Really all that has little to do with being christian really though. Link to post Share on other sites
MacAran Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 So, part of the thing with Christianity is that it is such a broad religion with many different and divergent interpretations. Catholicism vs Orthodox, vs Anglican, and then a whole helluva lotta Protestant denominations. There are a lot of Christians who use their religion as an excuse to oppress the people they don't understand. (I think everybody does that to some degree, but many Christians use God as their reason and excuse). There are also a lot of us who try to go through our lives and love others. If I could come up with just one idea that I think SHOULD come up when you think of Christianity I would say Love. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case. Link to post Share on other sites
A. Sterling Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 @StomachGod @MacAran I admire both of your abilities to differentiate between the religion and the individuals. I see it happen a lot where people generalize the religion and the people who proclaim their adherence to it. You see this attitude with all of the Abrahamic religions really and coming from all sides. I find also that many of my classmates seem to misunderstand the actual moral teachings of the Abrahamic religions or take lines from texts out of context. I'm wondering what your understanding of the moral teachings of Christianity are or what parts you really don't know about or see people misunderstanding a lot. For instance, my classmates stated that Christianity was designed to enforce rules which limit the personal expression of individuals. One student put it today that one branch of Christianity "outlaws everything fun, basically", I think he was talking about Puritanism which did emphasis rules and regulations so it's a fair statement but another student also stated that the Christian view as a whole requires an anti-environmental view. I also often hear most students state that the Christian view must be creationist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. I find issue with such assumptions about other religions as well (Islam is a common victim of this) but my class has only been talking about Christianity lately so that's where my mind is at. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I think it would be a good idea to not talk about the "Abrahamic" religions, because they are very different, and only Judaism began with Abraham. Christianity began with Jesus, and Islam began with Mohammed, and there was a large block of time between Judaism (approx. 2,000 BCE) and Islam (600 CE). Link to post Share on other sites
Bio 7 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I don’t even know how to respond here. If I start with a proper answer I may go on a rant and I want to go to sleep. Trying to be brief, I don’t like the concept of any religion. I think the very idea of a god is harmful and causes little good. What little good it causes comes with it’s own problems. I’m just against the nature of religions, I prefer looking at the universe without the lense of a god tainting it. I will stop here though or I’ll be at this for a while. Link to post Share on other sites
SeeYa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 minute ago, A. Sterling said: @StomachGod @MacAran I admire both of your abilities to differentiate between the religion and the individuals. I see it happen a lot where people generalize the religion and the people who proclaim their adherence to it. You see this attitude with all of the Abrahamic religions really and coming from all sides. I find also that many of my classmates seem to misunderstand the actual moral teachings of the Abrahamic religions or take lines from texts out of context. I'm wondering what your understanding of the moral teachings of Christianity are or what parts you really don't know about or see people misunderstanding a lot. For instance, my classmates stated that Christianity was designed to enforce rules which limit the personal expression of individuals. One student put it today that one branch of Christianity "outlaws everything fun, basically", I think he was talking about Puritanism which did emphasis rules and regulations so it's a fair statement but another student also stated that the Christian view as a whole requires an anti-environmental view. I also often hear most students state that the Christian view must be creationist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. I find issue with such assumptions about other religions as well (Islam is a common victim of this) but my class has only been talking about Christianity lately so that's where my mind is at. It doesn't matter how inherently "good" an ideal is, people are not perfect, so they will ruin it without fail. Christianity, has a lot of flaws in my opinion. However I don't really want to go into the details since I know that would likely become an explosive discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
A. Sterling Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 If I might muse, I wonder at why certain topics (such as religion in this case) are so provocative. One would imagine first that it is a battle of reason but this cannot be as emotion worms it's way in no matter what. Not that I entirely think that is a bad thing if one is debating philosophy and ethics but that certain emotions (particularly pride, as in certainly in one's own correctness, and anger or abuse take hold). My curiosity is why these emotions are so much stronger with certain topics than with others. For example, people must hold themselves back, yes?, so as not to start a meaningless fight rather than intellectual and contributory debate. This baffles me, for whatever reason. Such precautions are obviously wise but I suppose I do not understand why they must be necessary. And why then, people become hung up on minute details and particularly on misunderstandings which, it seems, some people search for, even, to take advantage of. This I do not understand, and yet I seem to encounter it often in my classes and in life (somehow those two things are separate?). I wish for the world that differences could be had more openly, yet it seems, too often, that the differences that arise infringe upon each other. Link to post Share on other sites
firewallflower Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 This is indeed a very open-ended question—so much so that I'm not completely sure where to start and where to go with whatever I start with. That said, to make an effort to craft some sort of response out of the many, many possible things that I could include... I should start by saying that I am not Christian. Generally speaking, I am wary of Christianity, partly due to being part of a minority religious group which, historically, has often been targeted by Christians (among many others). This wariness does not mean that I have anything against Christianity in and of itself, however: I don't, I'm just cautious. But something to keep in mind—and, I think, part of the reason this broad question is so hard for me to figure out how to reply to—is that Christianity is a wide category. The way in which religion manifests for an Evangelical will be quite different from that of a Unitarian, which will in turn be very different from a Roman Catholic... even though all of the above are Christian. And, as others have mentioned, the individual makes a world of difference. Two people can identify with the same denomination of Christianity, profess to share the same core beliefs, own the same edition of the Bible, and even go to the same church, yet their attitudes towards non-Christians may be polar opposites. There are Christians (some of whom I consider my close friends) who are some of the most caring, ethical people I know. There are also Christians who would probably jump at the opportunity to see me dead. Both of the above groups might cite Christian beliefs as their inspiration, but that doesn't mean that either, alone, is an accurate representation of Christianity as a whole. Ultimately, it's the people who make the difference. I have more to say, but I'll cut this short for now. On a tangentially related note, while this discussion seems to center around Christianity as a set of religious beliefs, I would also make the argument that it is possible to be culturally/secularly Christian, even without being religious—and that many, many people fall into this category. Link to post Share on other sites
A. Sterling Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, firewallflower said: I have more to say, but I'll cut this short for now. On a tangentially related note, while this discussion seems to center around Christianity as a set of religious beliefs, I would also make the argument that it is possible to be culturally/secularly Christian, even without being religious—and that many, many people fall into this category. My interest is peeked. I just want to make sure I understand your meaning, could you go in to more detail? What I think you're talking about is people who identify as Christian because everyone around them does or it's how they were raised or something but they don't really practice the religion. Is that right? Link to post Share on other sites
Knight of Cydonia Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Quote If I might muse, I wonder at why certain topics (such as religion in this case) are so provocative. One would imagine first that it is a battle of reason but this cannot be as emotion worms it's way in no matter what. Not that I entirely think that is a bad thing if one is debating philosophy and ethics but that certain emotions (particularly pride, as in certainly in one's own correctness, and anger or abuse take hold). My curiosity is why these emotions are so much stronger with certain topics than with others. My guess is because a lot of terrible things have been done in the name of religion, Christianity included. There are a lot of different interpretations of Christianity and people live true to their faith in different ways. Some of it is good, of course, but... definitely not all. ---- Anyways, as for my personal experience with it, I was raised Christian and went to Sunday school/church my whole childhood. My mom isn't really religious (she just believes in some higher power), but it was very important to my dad. I remember everyone at the church was very friendly and kind, and genuinely good people, and I know faith in God gives my dad a lot of comfort. So I can see good in that kind of Christianity. On the other hand, my Christian great aunt believes all non-believers will go to Hell and that you must pledge faith in God and Jesus as your saviour to have a chance at Heaven... uhh, no thanks! And there are people much "worse" than her. On a related note, I remember a lot of the stories we'd be told in Sunday school (The Good Samaritan, David and Goliath, etc), and of course all the stories about Jesus. Here's the thing - I always thought those were kind of like Aesop's fables, in that they were stories meant to give good messages and moral lessons. So, I always thought that "Christianity" to my dad (and our old church) was really just teaching good words to live by, Sunday School was basically classes in morality for kids, and I guess everyone believed in a higher power called God though I never did. It wasn't until almost 20 years later that an extremely naive me embarrassingly found out that Christians believe that all those "stories" actually happened - that Jesus was an actual person, the son of God, raised from the dead after 3 days, etc - and that's mainly what makes Christians Christians and not just people who believe in a higher power! I was flabbergasted, because again, even as a kid I believed those stories were impossible to be real so they had to just be all metaphor and symbolism... Needless to say, I'm an atheist. I don't believe you need a belief in Jesus and/or a higher power to be moral or a good person, or to give you fulfilment in life, and the sceptical scientist in me has a really hard time in believing the truth of the Bible. So Christianity has no meaning for me personally. But as I've touched on above, I know it gives a lot of meaning for my dad. We see life and the world around us differently, and his beliefs have never infringed on mine or anyone else's wellbeing, so I respect his beliefs and am happy he has something that means so much to him. Link to post Share on other sites
SeeYa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, A. Sterling said: If I might muse, I wonder at why certain topics (such as religion in this case) are so provocative. One would imagine first that it is a battle of reason but this cannot be as emotion worms it's way in no matter what. Not that I entirely think that is a bad thing if one is debating philosophy and ethics but that certain emotions (particularly pride, as in certainly in one's own correctness, and anger or abuse take hold). My curiosity is why these emotions are so much stronger with certain topics than with others. For example, people must hold themselves back, yes?, so as not to start a meaningless fight rather than intellectual and contributory debate. This baffles me, for whatever reason. Such precautions are obviously wise but I suppose I do not understand why they must be necessary. And why then, people become hung up on minute details and particularly on misunderstandings which, it seems, some people search for, even, to take advantage of. This I do not understand, and yet I seem to encounter it often in my classes and in life (somehow those two things are separate?). I wish for the world that differences could be had more openly, yet it seems, too often, that the differences that arise infringe upon each other. I actually like have philosophical debates on Christian stuff with one of my IRL friends who is as it happens, Christian. I tend to avoid these discussions more widely because there are those who do not like to see their beliefs questioned (religious or otherwise), and when those people enter such a discussion it inevitably ends in arguments... which I prefer to avoid. Short version: Debating with people willing to entertain thoughts and use reason is fun, debating with people dead set on destroying all opinions not their own is not fun. And this is not limited to religion/Christianity. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 . Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Same as I think of all religions- a waste of human time and energy. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said: Christianity played a major role in the historic development of the West and has been highly influential on the world stage. Christians played a major role, not Christianity. Because of the increasing wealth of the Papacy, Christians had the funding to voyage to and conquer the New World. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 6:10 AM, Sally said: Christians played a major role, not Christianity . Link to post Share on other sites
A. Sterling Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, chandrakirti said: Same as I think of all religions- a waste of human time and energy. I'm always curious about this view but never hear much about it. I'm partially an Anthropology student so they drill the idea of respecting everyone's beliefs into our brains, avoiding ethnocentrism and all that. I generally view religions as unavoidable in societies in general because I figure that any time people start grouping together and adhering to particular beliefs systems it will create something resembling religion. So, how do you find that religion, as a whole, is entirely unnecessary for human existence. And that it is, in fact, a waste of mental, emotional, and physical resources. I mean, why have so many cultures across the planet and time developed so many religions when there is no benefit? Or is it that religion is beneficial to an elite few which allows them to impose their will and beliefs upon others? Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 6:22 AM, A. Sterling said: respecting everyone's beliefs into our brains, avoiding ethnocentrism . Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 The last sentence...religions help form hierarchies and bind populations into teams. The other types of team instantly become 'them' and not 'us'. Doesn't mean any of these belief systems have a grain of truth or reality in them. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 6:22 AM, A. Sterling said: I generally view religions as unavoidable . Link to post Share on other sites
MacAran Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, chandrakirti said: The last sentence...religions help form hierarchies and bind populations into teams. Not all religions for traditional hierarchies though. Part of the distinction between Buddhism and Vedantic Hinduism is a rejection of caste being determined by birth (arguably a rejection of the entire caste system but you start getting into social norms at that point). Neo-Wicca has no real hierarchy, nor does the Shinto religion. Regardless of its truth or not, religion helps create and shape community. It provides a framework, a set of common beliefs, a support system in times of trial, both physical and emotional. Different religions have had different degrees of success with this over history, and I am by no means claiming religion is necessary for these things, but it does facilitate them. In that alone it isn't a waste. @A. Sterling for me, the short answer about what i believe is the core of Christianity is summed up by Matthew 37-40 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” what that means to me is that God wants us to act with love and care towards our fellow man, and if we struggle with that, to act that way out of our love for God themself. Sin then, is an act that goes against love, and act of violence or harm towards ourselves or another person. If you really look at a lot of the things people go on about being "sinful" many of them come from a place of trying (however misguided it might be) to protect someone from something that is harmful. Sex out of wedlock is a perfect example. For the vast majority of the history of western society, and especially in the time when Jesus is supposed to have lived, having a child out of wedlock would condemn you to a life of poverty, never able to marry, never able to obtain the stability and protection that a woman in that time could only really get through marriage. No one would train a bastard child in a trade, no one would marry a daughter with no father and no dowry. So in that context, and with little or at least poor birth control, sex outside of marriage was a thing that could be very harmful. That particular idea no longer exists in the same societal context, but even today there is a stigma against unmarried mothers (especially young unmarried mothers). So, even today, the idea that sex outside of marriage (and by extension things that might lead to sex outside of marriage like alcohol, rock-n-roll, or dancing {see the movie Footloose}) are treated as sinful through a (often misguided) attempt to prevent that harm. I am not defending these particular ideas, just explaining from what idea I think they are born. I also believe that we need to evaluate what we believe about a thing or a situation, and ask ourselves if, in this time and place, are we really helping them? Or are we harming them? We have to look at something and ask "is this an act of love, or is this causing harm?" and that, I think, is where a lot of Christians fall short. They hold to the dogma that they were taught, rather than the principles from which it springs. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 8:29 AM, StomachGod said: Why up until now? . Link to post Share on other sites
SeeYa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 37 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said: Because religion as a whole is declining at a precipitous rate in North West Europe, where it seems non-religion is quickly becoming the cultural default, probably through materialism being the dominant hegemonic grand narrative that 'over-rides' any natural predispositions in children towards spiritual ideas by the time they hit puberty. IMHO Edit: Gosh, I sound overblown here! lol. Don't mean to sound pretentious. Well, I disagree with the probable reason you suggest but I otherwise kind of agree. Even ignoring religion, spirituality itself is dying, and that is on the whole a negative I think. Link to post Share on other sites
ColeHW34 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I try accepting them but their nature that makes them so inclined to bash people like us is disgusting. Besides I hate when they try knocking at my door. Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 1:47 PM, ColeHW said: Besides I hate when they try knocking at my door. . Link to post Share on other sites
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