You ever see that Gillette commercial about "toxic masculinity"?

[Knight of Cydonia]

On the one hand, it's smart marketing. It's giving them SO much publicity, and "there's no such thing as bad publicity". They're pandering to an audience, and they know that with the current political climate this kind of ad will get talked about. 

 

As for the ad itself... I think it's pretty stupid. I can see why people are annoyed at it.  The message I got from it was not "be good", it was "stop being bad", and there's a huge difference between those messages. Sure there are some bad apples, but they heavily implied that it's actually most men that are a problem (e.g. by the phrase "some, is not enough"). The ad employs blanket negativity on men, and ridicules them for behaviour that most men would already find abhorrent. It kind of reminds me of the line of thinking that we should "teach men not to rape". It's demeaning and condescending. I feel like there's also something to be said about how the majority of the "bad" people were white men, while the majority of the "good" people were non-white or women.

[Guest]

'As a woman' (who has been taken advantage of sexually by men in all kinds of horrendous ways, who has been abused, yada yada)

 

it's a stupid and sexist ad, because 1) women behave like shits too and 2) not all men are shits.

 

And no one ever addresses 'toxic femininity'. People cry over this stupid ad but if gilette made the same ad about toxic femininity instead, everyone involved in making it would be burned at the frikken stake, probably literally.

 

Double standards. Hypocrisy. 

 

Over it.

[Joe the Stoic]

Alright, Pan, no more beating around the bush.  Tell us what you really think.

[Joe the Stoic]

21 minutes ago, EasternMagic said:

Pan?

Ficto's more common name.

[Joe the Stoic]

6 minutes ago, EasternMagic said:

Pan, like the greek God?

More complicated than that.

 

(And we're getting off topic.)

[The Terrible Travis]

I don't really care about the ad. I was using Gillette before, and I'm gonna keep using it after. This doesn't change anything. I thought the ad was fine. The actual message contained within it was pretty tame. It was basically just "be nice, don't be a jerk". I really don't see how anyone could possibly be offended by that. The fact that there are actually people upset over this is ridiculous. 

[thylacine]

I thought the commercial had a positive message and set a good example.  I don't know why so many people are so upset over it.

[Guest]

Saw it.

Am fine with it.

Ain't the least bit surprised at the usual suspects getting their knickers in a twist over it.

[Guest Jetsun Milarepa]

Never seen it but if what I hear about its message is right, I'm all for it. Pity people need reminding to be fair to others.

[Dreamsexual]

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[lazypanda]

I see i'm a bit late to the party 😆

[lazypanda]

I don't know why some people think the ad is labelling ALL men. The ad clearly says that some men do stand up to injustice around them, but some is not enough. 

The men who don't behave badly, have no reason to get riled up over this ad.

 

And fyi, if some other company made an ad about female bullys(aka the mean girls) or golddiggers, i would be perfectly okay with it. Because I am not one of them.

[lazypanda]

22 hours ago, (Pan) Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

'As a woman' (who has been taken advantage of sexually by men in all kinds of horrendous ways, who has been abused, yada yada)

 

it's a stupid and sexist ad, because 1) women behave like shits too and 2) not all men are shits.

 

And no one ever addresses 'toxic femininity'. People cry over this stupid ad but if gilette made the same ad about toxic femininity instead, everyone involved in making it would be burned at the frikken stake, probably literally.

 

Double standards. Hypocrisy. 

 

Over it.

We are talking about men only now. We'll talk about women later. I don't understand why people imagine that by calling out some sh*t done by some men, we are saying that all women are saints. Nobody is saying that. There are nasty women too out there.

And the ad explicitly stated that not all men are not like that. Please watch the ad fully. There were even clips of men standing up for the victims. 

 

And how are you so sure that an ad on toxic femininity would not be well received? Surely, it cannot be any worse than how badly this one was recevied. So, at the end of the day, men whine just as much as women(stop making it seem as though  feminists are the only ones making a fuss all the time).

[RoseGoesToYale]

I would like to disclaimer that I use Gillette razors, because female-branded razors are expensive af, cheaply made, and never give a close shave.

 

My issue with it is that it blames individual men for the societal ails that a screwed up system of gender created. It's like a teacher standing up and blaming all the students for once again failing the standardized tests. It won't make anyone improve, including the actually bad students, because the system keeps on keeping on.

 

To turn it around, I've never had to deal with media calling me out as a woman for doing some of the terrible things that some women do, e.g. bullying, hypersexualizing each other, ostracision, body shaming, using children as divorce pawns, using periods as an excuse to verbally abuse another person. If an ad ever did, I wouldn't be mad, because I know how we got here and I want the system to change. But a lot of women would be furious, because not all women do that, and how do you change other people's behavior in a system that still rewards people for stereotypically gendered behavior? No one likes to be called out by a huge money-making entity that you can't even shout back at to argue your case.

 

I don't really know what Gillette could've done better. I tend to be on the side of hating all advertisements. But a good start might've been "The Best Anyone Can Get".

[Dreamsexual]

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[Spotastic]

The thing is, the ad isn't blaming anybody. It's pointing out the fact that as a society, there are a lot of men who act like dipshits for the sake of "being manly". The ad tells you to do better than that, and gives examples of people doing better. That's it. No blame. Just a company trying to get others to be better people. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 9:12 PM, Spotastic said:

The thing is, the ad isn't blaming anybody.

.

 

[Spotastic]

1 hour ago, Dreamsexual said:

Some don't see it that way, and judging by the dislike ratio on the ad itself, I'd say the majority.  

 

I think I agree with the above posts that liken it to a Rorsarch (spelling!) test, that people see different things in the same advert and that it might reveal about people's predispositions and politcial biases.

I can see the logic in looking at it that way. 

[Jusey1]

It was a terrible ad but it has good intentions.

 

The ad's point was to get men to treat other people better, which I can agree with to a point (replace men with EVERYBODY and I'll totally agree with the message). However, it's terrible because it is blaming Masculinity for the toxic problems in our society (and even for "problems" that aren't actual problems, such as boys wrestling for fun).

This probably happened due to the whole Feminist and SJW culture of today where there seems to be a heavy hatred for "toxic masculinity", which doesn't exists. Toxic behavior does not generate from a specific trait but rather is it's own trait. Some people will be terrible no matter what their race, gender, or anything else is. One's traits will not ever effect on how terrible of a person they are. They might influence their opinions which in turn can give them a direction for their toxicity but the toxicity itself is it's own thing and that's the key problem in humanity. Something which I've seen happen in people of every possible thing.

Masculinity itself is just a really good and strong common trait mostly found in men (sometimes in women). Femininity is the same thing but opposite. Both are strong traits and both should be respected and allowed... Not hated. This ad is showing hatred on one and blaming men for the problems in the world when the problems in the world is much more complex than just "blaming one group".

Blaming one group of individuals is a strategy, not a truth.

[Guest]

On 1/23/2019 at 12:11 PM, Little Bear said:

It was probably a bad idea that a brand was behind it.

Especially this one. It would be like Nestle preaching workplace safety, when it has known cases of child labor producing their cocoa in Africa.

 

A company known just like Apple, to employ people in third world countries or in some cases, in developed nations but in squalor conditions (I.E Foxconn, which had to hang nets under some of their factory windows to prevent suicides vs addressing the issue) in either setting to just like many others--keep costs rock bottom, and in shamelessly increasing their bottom line (lining the pockets at the small percentile at the helm of the corporation). Hard for many to accept such a corporation to dictate to others what integrity and morals are, yet refusing to be man enough to accept their responsibility in that very toxic masculinity being marketed that made them billions of dollars.

 

Now its wrong? Or are you trying to wash your hands of the responsibility to look good under the #Me Too movement?

 

The video is cute, but the hypocrisy behind it is sickening.

 

Defending one's honor has evolved over time, to meaning doing the right thing when nobody is looking. Yet, they point the finger at men.

 

[Guest community6seasons]

Really, Gillette got what they wanted: huge publicity. That is the most cynical part of it all. In India, there's a sudden spate of advertisements based on girl power. It's not that the corporates care. It's just become financially viable to do so. 

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:08 PM, community6seasons said:

 

Really, Gillette got what they wanted: huge publicity

 

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[Guest]

On 1/25/2019 at 4:12 PM, Spotastic said:

Just a company trying to get others to be better people.

My issue is this is a company that exploited the very toxicity it is denouncing, and made billions doing so. 

 

Kind of like Kanye West making an ad on weighing one's words, as they can do damage. 

 

On 1/24/2019 at 2:53 PM, lazypanda said:

or golddiggers, i would be perfectly okay with it. Because I am not one of them.

No company would risk this.

 

Why? Feminist groups would decry the sexist movement stifling the many advances women had made socially. 

 

Boycotts, social shaming. Are you kidding? Not the same ball game. 

 

I am fine with one calling out toxic masculinity. Not so, if it's done by a hypocritical company. 

[Dreamsexual]

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[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 10:19 AM, Telecaster68 said:

The idea is that real men don't show or possibly even have feelings, and this perception is leading men to suppress them and victimise men who don't. 

 

Hence toxic. 

.

 

[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:02 PM, Telecaster68 said:

 

Not so much a perception as a trope that men should be tough and uncomplaining and self sufficient, in comparison to women who are delicate and sensitive and dependent. But if you say someone has to be tough, uncomplaining and self sufficient, it means they bury all their feelings and never ask for help,and anyone who doesn't, isn't a man, and the real men show how tough they are by mocking him. 

 

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[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:38 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Well no, they were buried. 

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[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:42 PM, Telecaster68 said:

Given you missed the entire trope, and didn't see how it played out in the ad, I think it's more than possible you've missed them in real life too. 

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[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 1:55 PM, Telecaster68 said:

The toxicity leaks out round the edges. A guy feeling sad might interpret that emotion as just feeling bad, and act on it as anger, assaulting someone. 

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[Dreamsexual]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 2:07 PM, Telecaster68 said:

most of society sees as repression

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