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I just looked it up...

 

According to E. Nagoski:

 

Spontaneous desire:  75% of men, 15% of women.

 

Responsive desire:  5% of men and 30% of women

 

The rest she attributed to what she calls “contextual desire.”

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I can’t tell from the outtake I have but I agree that - from what I remember - she also talks about people experiencing a mix.

 

Contextual desire is more like what Ficto was describing about having to be in the right emotional place/headspace.

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Okay, since it has been asked several times, my ex would want sex almost daily.  After years of feeling like my wants/needs didn't matter I usually would just go to the bathroom afterwards and cry a little bit.  Feeling the hole in my heart grow bigger, and my depression get darker.  Feeling completely used and completely alone.

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17 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I just looked it up...

 

According to E. Nagoski:

 

Spontaneous desire:  75% of men, 15% of women.

 

Responsive desire:  5% of men and 30% of women

 

The rest she attributed to what she calls “contextual desire.”

Typically, 70 percent of men experience spontaneous desire, while only 10 to 20 percent of women experience it as their primary desire style. Men tend to experience desire first and then arousal, while most women respond to arousal first, which then develops into desire. The responsive desire many experience, especially women, is not associated with any pain or any disorder of arousal or orgasm, according to Nagoski. Yet, pharmaceutical companies insist women with low sex drives should be medicated.

 

By process of elimination then.....

 

10-20% of woman experience spontaneous desire as their primary form of desire 

80-90 of woman experienced responsive desire as their primary for of desire

 

https://www.medicaldaily.com/sex-drive-doesnt-exist-psychologist-says-more-women-experience-responsive-desire-328206

 

Spontaneous desire is equated to what we have long believed to be "sex drive," but Nagoski suggests there’s also a healthy and normal way to experience desire — responsive desire. This is when our interest only surfaces in response to arousal. For example, she said: "So, your partner comes over and starts kissing your neck and you're like, 'Oh, right, sex. That's a good idea.'"

 

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4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So actually she's saying that everybody (bar asexuals) experiences both types, just in different proportions depending on their sex.

Yes

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11 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

... and once that happens, the person is open to becoming aroused, rather than just spontaneously feeling horny. They seem really similar ideas to me.

The one is “I’m able to experience desire if I am in the right headspace.”  The other is “I’m able to experience desire because my partner desires/wants to have sex with me.”

 

I suppose you could consider responsive desire a subset of contextual desire (where the thing that puts you in the right headspace is your partner’s desire for sex), but not the other way around.

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12 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So actually she's saying that everybody (bar asexuals) experiences both types, just in different proportions depending on their sex.

That article is someone else’s conclusion - the by process of elimination part - and not hers.  She gives the much lower numbers for responsive desire I cited.

 

Contextual desire is based on whatever makes the situation “just right” for the specific individual, which is (often) not (just) that their partner is in the mood.  It could also include (anything, but examples like) the kids being out with a relative/babysitter, all the housework being done, not having a stressful workday ahead, etc.

 

ETA: sorry meant to quote @James121‘s post but grabbed the wrong one.

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56 minutes ago, xstatic said:

Okay, since it has been asked several times, my ex would want sex almost daily.  After years of feeling like my wants/needs didn't matter I usually would just go to the bathroom afterwards and cry a little bit.  Feeling the hole in my heart grow bigger, and my depression get darker.  Feeling completely used and completely alone.

I am sorry you were in that situation.   Having a very large gap in sexuality in a relationship is just a huge problem.  I don't know your particular case, but in general I blame neither.  Often one feels constantly rejected and unloved, and the other constantly pressured and used.   I think all that can be done is to recognize the mismatch as early as possible and then end the relationship. 

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting sex daily. There is nothing wrong with wanting it monthly, or never.  The mix though is poison. 

 

 

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@uhtred it is a choice to stay and live in misery. @Apostle has made that same choice, yet took back his power in a way to make it as palatable as possible.  There are some lessons in that which I know he’s shared.  What would help lessen your pain beyond what you can’t have?

 

As for the topic of desire: Apparently, I’m in the minority. My Mother always told me it bothered her that I was strong, competitive, outspoken and stubborn - just like a man.  My sex drive/natural desire is more closely aligned with the majority of men’s natural inclination as well.  I wonder if I have a hormonal imbalance now, not just her implication of a mental imbalance? hahahahaha

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'll bet you're one of those bra-burning women's libbers too, aren't you

Um, no, not so much! 😇

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Given the Brazilian I had yesterday is currently a bit uncomfortable, not that either! 😂

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Good point, but I had that permanently lasered off years ago, so the last area of concern in these here parts (pun intended)......

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Carry on - side show over! Misery is really so much more engrossing for the masses here. 👍🏻

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26 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I am sorry you were in that situation.   Having a very large gap in sexuality in a relationship is just a huge problem.  I don't know your particular case, but in general I blame neither.  Often one feels constantly rejected and unloved, and the other constantly pressured and used.   I think all that can be done is to recognize the mismatch as early as possible and then end the relationship. 

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting sex daily. There is nothing wrong with wanting it monthly, or never.  The mix though is poison. 

 

 

I don't really blame him for what all took place during our relationship.  And it wasn't all bad.  I really did love him terribly.  But I did so to my own detriment.  I'm a pleaser by nature.  And I also avoid conflict, even if it means telling lies to make everyone else around me happy.  All I was really doing was destroying myself little by little... feeling like no one could love the real me. 

 

What I've learned in the past year through separation and therapy is that I wasn't setting consistent boundaries.  And I wasn't being honest in my communication.  It seems like a simple enough concept, but boy did I suck at it.  Fear of abandonment was a big driver for my actions.  That and codependency issues.

 

Back to the issue of sexual compatibility.  It's always going to seem harder for the partner with the higher sex drive.  Because they are the ones who actively have to suppress urges.  It doesn't mean that the partner with the lower sex drive is being selfish.  They literally can't control how they feel, just like you literally can't control how you feel.  That's why you have to come up with other means of fulfilling that person.  If you love someone, you aren't going to want them to suffer from a feeling of loss of love from you.  There are other ways to go about it though.

 

If, for whatever reason that's not good enough for either one...if they can't find that balance, then they should probably go their separate ways.

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2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

All this is why I'm really querying the some people don't experience responsive desire thing and seeing it as intrinsic to contextual desire. Apart from asexuals, everyone pretty much does have all three things, whatever you call them. They just work differently.

I understood responsive desire to mean specifically in response to sexual advances, whereas contextual desire was the broader scenario you described. It sounded like james was using it the former way as well, as he was speaking to getting in the mood because his wife was in the mood and suggested/initiated sex.

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

It's tricky to know how to take a public conversation forward after the 'my Brazilian's a bit itchy' remark, tbh 😉

 

I took that as ouchy rather than itchy, lol.

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56 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think a lot of asexuals just don't understand that bit. Because sex isn't important to them It feels like their partners are demanding a major effort from them, for something that's not that important or wonderful even for their partner. 

I’m sure there’s some of that, but also - for those sexuals where nothing else suffices - there’s also the problem where the ace partner is trying to communicate love in other ways and nothing’s working.  That also leads to the whole “*eyeroll* why is it all about sex?” business... 

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4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

I’m sure there’s some of that, but also - for those sexuals where nothing else suffices - there’s also the problem where the ace partner is trying to communicate love in other ways and nothing’s working.  That also leads to the whole “*eyeroll* why is it all about sex?” business... 

One of the big disconnects is the idea that something can substitute for sex.  In many cases there  just isn't a substitute. Its like being hungry - only food fixes hunger.  (not talking about dying of starvation, but of feeling hungry enough that it dominates your thoughts).  At that point it IS all about food- and there really is no solution. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, uhtred said:

One of the big disconnects is the idea that something can substitute for sex.  In many cases there  just isn't a substitute. Its like being hungry - only food fixes hunger.  (not talking about dying of starvation, but of feeling hungry enough that it dominates your thoughts).  At that point it IS all about food- and there really is no solution. 

...and where that’s the case xstatic’s goal is impossible, even for aces who do “get it.”

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Not quite impossible.

 

Where an ace can find common ground with a sexual over things they can do, at a frequency they can sustain, and do it in a caring way (though obviously not with desire), there might be a way forward. Obviously sexuals will be making a complementary set of compromises there too.

I took “in other ways” to mean “besides sex.”  Agreed that some partners can successfully compromise.

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It's true that I don't get sex in my current relationship.  But it doesn't really bother me.  I think that being in his shoes for a long time in my previous relationship helps me a great deal.  I can very much relate to how he can feel about it.  It helps me keep myself in check as well.  I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable like I felt uncomfortable.

 

I'm getting so much love and affection minus the sex that I'm feeling fulfilled the majority of the time.  I mean, sometimes it's there.  That crazy desire.  And I don't hide it.  I don't push for it either.  But I let it be known.  If anything, so that he can take it as a compliment, and also, so that I'm not actively suppressing my emotions anymore.

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19 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, I have to remember sometimes that just because my STBXW also flat refused any kind of affection beyond a rather (to me) dessicated version of slightly random gifts and in her words 'I'm still living here', not all aces are like that.

Yeah, that seems like something beyond/in addition to a sexual mismatch.

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If once a month is not enough for you and you have her consent to satisfy the need of sex in the internet, I think that she will also allow you to masturbate online with the person on the other side. such video chats, you know.

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I recommend finding partners on the internet that are also in sexless relationships.   Some are just happy to have someone out there to share pics with.  Others will want to hook in time.  When it happens, don't turn it down.  Sex with someone that is into you is something so good you will have no remorse over it.  

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Just now, EasternMagic said:

If you start a relationship with someone because both of you feel rejected by someone else doesn't that create distrust (because of feelings for the rejecting person) and the feeling that you are just each other's second choice?

Sometimes you have to be shown the worst to know what good is.

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4 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Contextual desire is more like what Ficto was describing about having to be in the right emotional place/headspace.

 

4 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

... and once that happens, the person is open to becoming aroused, rather than just spontaneously feeling horny. They seem really similar ideas to me.

I was responding to what James said. He said even if he's not in the mood for sex, a woman who wants sex with him can quite easily get him in the mood and that's not difficult for him. He then implied that that's how sex works for everyone and that's how it should work in all couples.

 

But no, sex just isn't like that for everyone. For someone like me, if I'm not 'in the mood' then I don't want to have sex. And if I don't want to have sex then trying to push myself into it isn't going to make me able to want it, it's actually more likely to turn me off and kill my desire for next time as well. My genitals don't react to any kind of forceful effort to arouse them on my part or anyone else's. That's just how my genitals work and I'm one of those people who can only enjoy sex if my clitoris has engorged etc (female erection).. so, my genitals really need to come to the party for sex to be something I can want. 

 

I experience a kind of arousal that just happens on its own. I guess hormones or whatever flood my system (as a result of no external stimuli, I might just be doing the dishes) and I'll suddenly become very aroused and very wet and need to orgasm. 

 

I didn't find out until I was almost 30 that the only way a man (or woman) can make those hormones go into hyperdrive is by:

 

1) being emotionally attractive to me

 

2) being kind and emotionally and intellectually engaging and interesting to me

 

3) having no expectation that I'll give them sex, and being perfectly happy to go without sex if I don't want it.

 

Those three things cause whatever those 'horny' hormones are to go into hyperdrive for me and I become practically hypersexual and open to (and actively desiring of) almost any sex act under the sun. I can't get enough of sex with someone once they've caused those 'horny hormones' to flood my system.

 

I don't give a shit about all those terms like 'responsive' desire etc and what this or that study says. The entire of human sexuality cannot be summed up in one person's study (or even a group of them). 

 

Anyway this is all getting pretty off topic. My original point was that it's perfectly possibly to be repulsed by sex and absolutely not want it unless you're aroused and want it yourself. That's just a fact, so to tell the OP their partner is lying to them or manipulating them because 'that's not possible' is just ridiculous and unnecessary.

 

But now we should probably get back to talking about the OPs situation before a mod tells everyone off.

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38 minutes ago, EasternMagic said:

If you start a relationship with someone because both of you feel rejected by someone else doesn't that create distrust (because of feelings for the rejecting person) and the feeling that you are just each other's second choice?

 

Can a relationship based on mutual respect ever come out of that?

I trust my former affair partner now girlfriend, and she trusts me.  

 

My trust in my former wife was misplaced.   It is a bad idea to lie to someone you claim to love, all while watching them suffer, and have no remorse over that.  I am not going to let that scar me.  

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2 minutes ago, EasternMagic said:

What about the saying "If s/he cheated with you, s/he might cheat on you"?

We have an open relationship.   There is no other woman I want more, and I believe there is no man she wants more.  As long as she is honest with me and safe, she can fuck whoever she wants.  

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2 minutes ago, EasternMagic said:

What's the point of an open relationship then?

We love each other.  We understand that some sex is for fun and some sex is for bonding.  

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