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Master UK Political Discussion Thread


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7 hours ago, chandrakirti said:
15 hours ago, daveb said:

Except for the Isle of Skye faction... :P 

They don't even follow Scots law there never mind UK law!

That's why I love it! (Honestly! Can't turn my back without being teased in my absence!😆)

My comment was meant to be a pun (Isle of Skye ... I love Sky) - not a jab at anyone from Skye (which is a gorgeous place). :) 

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9 hours ago, timewarp said:

 

This is one of the many ugly consequences of first past the post. Politicians are desperately trying to appeal to everybody and in a polarised and heated up situation like now that's impossible. What they achieve is to be equally unappealing to everybody. Not that proportional representation is perfect, but it's easier to reach out to a minority and still get elected. Just look at the success of the Greens in Germany and compare that to the Caroline Lucas show we have here.

There is another option to the dreadful first past the post system or to proportional representation. I think the UK should adopt the French two round system. It would give a fairer chance to candidates representing smaller parties because voters can vote for the candidate they genuinely want in the first round without the fear that they are wasting their vote. As it is, people are pretty much forced to vote tactically for whichever of Conservative or Labour they consider to be the lesser of two evils because otherwise their vote is wasted (which I say is NOT proper democracy, but the UK just doesn't seem to get it!). 

 

There is also of course the option of the preferential and transferable or alternative voting system, which would actually result in the same candidate winning as under the French two round system most of the time, but with the advantage that people don't need to go out and vote twice on separate days. However, for some bizarre reason the UK seems to think that this simple and extremely fair system of voting is too complicated...

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa
3 hours ago, daveb said:

My comment was meant to be a pun (Isle of Skye ... I love Sky) - not a jab at anyone from Skye (which is a gorgeous place). :) 

Haha! My accent made it different! Probay that's one of tbe reasons I scratch my head at some puns! Worked well in the long run though...two jokes for the price of one!😊

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7 hours ago, Ortac said:

There is another option to the dreadful first past the post system or to proportional representation. I think the UK should adopt the French two round system. It would give a fairer chance to candidates representing smaller parties because voters can vote for the candidate they genuinely want in the first round without the fear that they are wasting their vote. As it is, people are pretty much forced to vote tactically for whichever of Conservative or Labour they consider to be the lesser of two evils because otherwise their vote is wasted (which I say is NOT proper democracy, but the UK just doesn't seem to get it!). 

 

There is also of course the option of the preferential and transferable or alternative voting system, which would actually result in the same candidate winning as under the French two round system most of the time, but with the advantage that people don't need to go out and vote twice on separate days. However, for some bizarre reason the UK seems to think that this simple and extremely fair system of voting is too complicated...

We have the same problem in the US, where voting for a 3rd party candidate can actually be worse in that it can pull enough votes away from the major party candidate you might prefer and cause your least favorite choice to get elected. There have been at least of couple of cases of that in US presidential elections in my voting career. And some people fear it could happen again if the Starbucks guy runs as a 3rd party candidate.

 

Anyway, back to UK politics. :) 

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On 2/23/2019 at 11:31 AM, chandrakirti said:

Yes, on those accounts I wholeheartedly agree! But on the Brexit front... I don't envy her position.

On Brexit it's also entirely her own fault. Nobody forced her to set up all those random red lines, except her own fanatic beliefs. The EU works with out-of-the-box solutions and everybody else, including the ERG, is fully aware of that. None of the other options (Canada-style trade deal, membership of both customs union and single market etc) would please everybody, but that's still better than the PM's half-arsed attempt to please everybody which does the exact opposite.

 

At which point did she seriously consult the opinions of other MPs, let alone the general public? The answer is she's never done it and she's still not in listening mode. How can you expect to reach a majority if you don't listen to those that could give you one?

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4 hours ago, timewarp said:

...and she's still not in listening mode.

I think you are exactly right. If the media is quoting her correctly, it seems to be that she has become an obsessive fanatic who is hell bent on "delivering the brexit the people voted for" and she has become so narrowly focused on it that she is blind to the damage that it will cause and which is being caused right now, damage which will only get worse if she fails to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think things through rationally.

 

And if this is accurate, it just makes her actions even more ludicrous:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/

 

I have to say, and this is the absolute truth, that if I were a UK national, resident in the UK, and I didn't have another nationality to fall back on to enable me to get the hell out of there, I would be shit scared right now. I suspect that those who claim that everything will be fine don't have the same understanding of business and economics that I do. Yes, it is possible that it will all turn out fine, but equally it may not, and bloody hell UK, you and your prime minister are taking one hell of a dangerous and reckless gamble. 

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On 2/24/2019 at 4:23 PM, Ortac said:

. I suspect that those who claim that everything will be fine don't have the same understanding of business and economics that I do. Yes, it is possible that it will all turn out fine, but equally it may not, and bloody hell UK, you and your prime minister are taking one hell of a dangerous and reckless gamble. 

"It will take 50 years before we see the benefits of brexit"

Jacob Rees Moog

 

Sounds like the 50 years is waiting for 95% of those public figures who championed it will be dead and buried.

 

Although garage is more realistic in his estimate

 

"I never said it would be a beneficial thing to leave and everyone would be better off,” 

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Well Corbout has announced that Labour will support a bill for a second referendum, which will be just as legally not binding. 

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On 2/25/2019 at 4:31 PM, Skycaptain said:

Well Corbout has announced that Labour will support a bill for a second third referendum, which will be just as legally not binding. 

Remain means remain. In all seriousness I hope we can get another referendum 

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The way things are going every politician bar Maynothaveaclue and Corbout will have resigned by then 

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5 minutes ago, chandrakirti said:

I hope so! We need folk with some oomph!

Be careful; that's how we got Trump.

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The above two posts = snigger given what a Trump is in Britain 

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4 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

The above two posts = snigger given what a Trump is in Britain 

What is it?   

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A fart 

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1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

A fart 

Should have expected that from AVEN's Bodily Noises Captain.  :D

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa
10 hours ago, Sally said:

Be careful; that's how we got Trump.

By oomph I meant people who know what they're doing....lost in translation, eh?😆

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16 minutes ago, chandrakirti said:

By oomph I meant people who know what they're doing....lost in translation, eh?😆

Yup -- in America, oomph means energy, not knowledge.  

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I don't know if anybody else noticed, but there's a bit of symbolism to the current schedule. Right now the final votes on the withdrawal agreement are planned for the 12th, 13th and 14th of March, so whatever comes out of it should be decided by the 15th of March. That's the Ides of March, which in ancient Rome was the traditional deadline for settling debts. Of course it is more known for the assassination of Julius Caesar, which would make it an ideal date for a new vote of no confidence (which could be seen as the more civilised modern-day equivalent). A vote of no confidence might even be a success for Corbyn at that point, because if the withdrawal agreement gets through under the condition of another referendum, it will leave the DUP unhappy enough to swap sides.

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Quote

 


"I haven't seen Karen Bradley's to do list, but if restoration of the devolved institutions is indeed her number one issue, heaven help those who find their concerns further down the list," she added.

"Her claim to the House of Commons that she has approached resolving the impasse with 'laser-like focus' is evidence only that we can now add lasers to the list of things the Secretary of State knows nothing about."

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2019/0302/1033875-alliance-party-northern-ireland/

 

To me, it seems Bradley's only plan is to reduce northern irish Mla salaries. 2 years without devolved government is too long.

 

The "knows nothing" is in reference to this from her in September 2018

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics

 

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/07/karen-bradley-northern-ireland-troubles-urged-apologise-richard-dannatt

 

What to be done with Karen Bradley. Does any other conservative actually want thee northern Irish secretary position?

 

I think she is very unaware of the northern Irish situation.

 

Also when justifying actions of soldiers, maybe best not to use "acting under orders" especially.

 

They were people acting under orders and under instruction and fulfilling their duty in a dignified and appropriate way

 

Especially in 2010, David Cameron described the killing of 14 civilians by the uk army in 1972 as "unjustified and unjustifiable"

https://www.bbc.com/news/10320609

 

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Yes. Only the UK government could turn a justified civil rights argument into a 30 year war.... ( I'm not counting the hundreds of years previously, just this last few decades of spat).

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I don't care about Karen Bradley. What I find deeply upsetting is the fact that there's still no devolved administration, combined with the confidence and supply arrangement with the DUP. (Don't get me wrong here, although I hardly share any opinions with the DUP, I do respect them, probably more than other parties. They are clear and bluntly honest about their intentions and that's a quality I appreciate. The whole setup is just completely lopsided and that can't be right.)

 

On another note I'm wondering if MPs are stupid enough to ask for an article 50 extension beyond May. I for one can't wait to ask the city council on how to register to vote.

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From Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, A Brief History of Brexit for Americans

(apologies if it's not viewable in some places, such as the UK?)

 

 

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

Yes! Glad to be able to see that one!

That Brexit map at 1.05 speaks volumes @daveb....

Seems you folks in the US are better informed than us...maybe we should ask advice from your corner ....wait....err.... Not unless @davebfor president!

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Nice video. It really sums it up nicely.

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The brexit means brexit reminds me of a sign my mum put up a sign "no means no" a brother wrote at the bottom "but what does the second no mean"

 

------

While watching the last leg last night (fingers crossed we will still have the UK tv stations in April. TV stations need to then get a license from an EU country to broadcast into Ireland. I expect most of the main ones will), the devices sent to the train stations during the week were sent using the discounted heart stamps for valentines day. 

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