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“I am not impugning anyone who works for the NHS and I think they do an amazing job,” he [Hancock] said.

“But what I am reiterating, stressing, is the importance to use the right amount of PPE both to have enough and also to use it as the precious resource that it is

 

 

When you use but in this way, you automatically makes the first part of the sentence a lie

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Cheshire-Cat
19 minutes ago, iff said:

 

 

 

When you use but in this way, you automatically makes the first part of the sentence a lie

Being on one of the front line fb groups I KNOW there are NHS staff 'misusing' PPE. Often it's because they are scared and I think the first part reflects that, but we do all have to be careful to make sure we aren't over using it. I'm so careful with the PPE I use to ensure I'm only using what I actually need to use. I don't want to reach a point where we do run out and myself or another member of staff ends up at risk as a result. It's not like we can go to another country right now and buy all of their's because everyone is in the same situation, and whilst more can be made it's whether production can keep up with the pace of use.

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1 hour ago, Cheshire-Cat said:

Being on one of the front line fb groups I KNOW there are NHS staff 'misusing' PPE. Often it's because they are scared and I think the first part reflects that, but we do all have to be careful to make sure we aren't over using it. I'm so careful with the PPE I use to ensure I'm only using what I actually need to use. I don't want to reach a point where we do run out and myself or another member of staff ends up at risk as a result. It's not like we can go to another country right now and buy all of their's because everyone is in the same situation, and whilst more can be made it's whether production can keep up with the pace of use.

I appreciate that.

Is there guideline on 'what' s too much, what's too ittle'

 

I think it is a difficult balance. 

 

I don't feel Hancock should have made that statement, I feel better coming from department supervisors to individuals. 

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Cheshire-Cat
5 minutes ago, iff said:

I appreciate that.

Is there guideline on 'what' s too much, what's too ittle'

 

I think it is a difficult balance. 

 

I don't feel Hancock should have made that statement, I feel better coming from department supervisors to individuals. 

Essentially its people being told what the PPE guidelines are but because they don't agree with them they don't follow them. This may include things like using a higher level of kit rather than the recommended kit which then leaves the higher level kit in short supply when it actually is needed.

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4 minutes ago, iff said:

I appreciate that.

Is there guideline on 'what' s too much, what's too ittle'

 

I think it is a difficult balance. 

 

I don't feel Hancock should have made that statement, I feel better coming from department supervisors to individuals. 

I think he (Matt H) said that the medical governing bodies had met and (re-)defined exactly what was appropriate for the current circumstances at the beginning of the week.

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Part of it is I don't want NHS staff to be scapegoated by the Conservative government

 

The Grenfell tower deaths were blamed on firefighters

 

I think this tweet thread (the whole thread) makes a very good point. 

 

 

 

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Whore*of*Mensa
11 hours ago, Cheshire-Cat said:

Essentially its people being told what the PPE guidelines are but because they don't agree with them they don't follow them. This may include things like using a higher level of kit rather than the recommended kit which then leaves the higher level kit in short supply when it actually is needed.

I feel that it’s very easy for Govt (who just awarded themselves £10,000 each to spend on setting up home working arrangements) to set PPE requirements safe in the knowledge that they won’t be setting foot in a hospital.

 

Hancock says ‘we should treat PPE as a precious resource’. I’m with the head of the nursing association who said ‘we should treat the lives of doctors and nurses as a precious resource.’ 19 of them dead already. There’s no such thing as too much PPE (also said by head of nursing)

 

Surveys show 40% of doctors report not having adequate PPE, a third of surgeons say the same.   Healthcare staff are being told not to wear masks to see coronavirus patients in wards. They should all walk out until the Govt stops putting their lives at risk, and insulting them to boot. 

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To be honest I think the government is desperate to distract from the fact that they're more than just a bit rubbish at purchasing PPE. Chancellor Merkel engaged personally in negotiations with President Xi to secure Chinese PPE for Germany (there are plenty of manufacturers there, but who gets access is strictly controlled by the Chinese government). Shouldn't this be even easier for this government that boldly claims it will replace the EU trade with ambitious new trade deals all over the world? To quote Elvis Presley "a little less conversation a little more action please".

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Whore*of*Mensa

Nurses should refuse to treat Covid-19 patients “as a last resort” if they are not given adequate personal protective equipment, according to guidance from the Royal College of Nursing (RCN).

At least 19 NHS workers are known to have died during the coronavirus outbreak, and the government has been criticised for failing to provide enough protection.

A spokesman for RCN said: “For nursing staff, this will go against every instinct. But their safety must not be compromised.”

The union said it would provide legal assistance to those making what it acknowledged was an “enormously difficult decision”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2020/apr/12/coronavirus-live-news-nhs-staff-deaths-boris-johnson-latest-updates?page=with:block-5e92cc5a8f08db3109f20fe1#block-5e92cc5a8f08db3109f20fe1

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And remember earlier, gove was blaming their slow response time on China

 

This tweet sums up the slow response

 

On 16th March, a group of Conservative Mps visiting schools, standing shoulder to shoulder for photo op

 

In Ireland, our schools were shut

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Cheshire-Cat
1 hour ago, Whore*of*Mensa said:

Healthcare staff are being told not to wear masks to see coronavirus patients in wards.

This isn't true. When seeing coronavirus patients a type IIR surgical mask should be worn, when doing aerosol generating procedures an FFP3 mask should be worn. It's all in the guidelines.

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Blaiddmelyn
1 hour ago, iff said:

Part of it is I don't want NHS staff to be scapegoated by the Conservative government

 

The Grenfell tower deaths were blamed on firefighters

That said, the locals don't generally blame the firefighters as I understand it - I have a few connections to the area and know a few folk who live nearby and the impression I get is that most people firmly blame govt and council, and think the firefighters were heroes. 

 

I'd hope that even if govt tried to scapegoat NHS staff, people wouldn't listen again. Though i imagine I'm naive.

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Whore*of*Mensa
10 minutes ago, Cheshire-Cat said:

This isn't true. When seeing coronavirus patients a type IIR surgical mask should be worn, when doing aerosol generating procedures an FFP3 mask should be worn. It's all in the guidelines.

How do you know? This is what people are saying in surveys.

 

Do you think that this nurse is lying?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/nhs-worker-quit-when-she-was-stopped-from-wearing-face-mask?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR2wXbrCWLuuBhQ7oULEg09xRBM2DKzRHdf1eegEEPuk-Ud3z6NVlkYaE1Q

 

Its a postcode lottery in terms of PET apparently. It might be fine where you are but it’s not very nice to throw your not so lucky colleagues under the bus. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Blaiddmelyn said:

That said, the locals don't generally blame the firefighters as I understand it - I have a few connections to the area and know a few folk who live nearby and the impression I get is that most people firmly blame govt and council, and think the firefighters were heroes. 

 

I'd hope that even if govt tried to scapegoat NHS staff, people wouldn't listen again. Though i imagine I'm naive.

While at least one person in the government blamed the victims themselves

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-50302573

 

A newspaper with 29 million readers (as of April 2018) in the UK has gone from headlines like "stop treating NHS like a religion", "sack the docs" and "too many foreign nurses damaging the NHS" to "on the side of the angels" 

How long will that last? 

 

 

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Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if our government had asked UK, or EU suppliers in January we wouldn't be in such a severe situation. If nothing else just when China was going into lockdown wouldn't have been the ideal time for Europe to want to buy matèriel the needed for themselves 

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And later, then there was the ventilator purchase thing through multi buying in the Eu

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/boris-johnson-eu-ventilator-scheme-and-coronavirus-1-6581207

 

The UK government went from we're invited and looking at it to we can't as we left the EU to "what e-mail? We never got an e-mail" in a week

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Lonemathsytoothbrushthief
On 4/12/2020 at 12:04 PM, Whore*of*Mensa said:

How do you know? This is what people are saying in surveys.

 

Do you think that this nurse is lying?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/nhs-worker-quit-when-she-was-stopped-from-wearing-face-mask?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR2wXbrCWLuuBhQ7oULEg09xRBM2DKzRHdf1eegEEPuk-Ud3z6NVlkYaE1Q

 

Its a postcode lottery in terms of PET apparently. It might be fine where you are but it’s not very nice to throw your not so lucky colleagues under the bus. 

 

 

It's also excluding the fact that some healthcare workers might also be people who are more at risk, if that's the case considering severity of symptoms is linked with viral load they might also be more vulnerable to a level of exposure to patients which is considered safe for just a surgical mask for those not at risk.

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Lonemathsytoothbrushthief
On 4/12/2020 at 12:04 PM, Whore*of*Mensa said:

How do you know? This is what people are saying in surveys.

 

Do you think that this nurse is lying?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/nhs-worker-quit-when-she-was-stopped-from-wearing-face-mask?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR2wXbrCWLuuBhQ7oULEg09xRBM2DKzRHdf1eegEEPuk-Ud3z6NVlkYaE1Q

 

Its a postcode lottery in terms of PET apparently. It might be fine where you are but it’s not very nice to throw your not so lucky colleagues under the bus. 

 

 

Austerity has always been a postcode lottery - it's easy for tories to avoid giving money to constituencies which won't win them the next election nowadays. So naturally the covid-19 response will be the same - many towns likely left to face the consequences alone, without any testing available, higher unemployment, fewer resources, worse internet access etc. It's an utter disgrace that something like a pandemic isn't having at all adequate information gathered, but to be expected - this party is the kill the poor and disabled party.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Today I filed 4 vat returns and sent out 6 emails looking for vat return details. Using the first article headline, I did 10 vat returns today. 

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Observation 1: The British economy is expected to shrink by 14% this year.

Observation 2: About 14% of the UK population was born outside the UK.

Observation 3: The UK is governed by the Tories, the party that brought us Windrush and the Hostile Environment.

 

I tend to come to conclusions, but feel free to put the pieces together or not according to your preferences. Not really my business any more anyway, as I'm leaving the country in less than two months.

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GingerRose

I think I'll take Boris over any American Candidate right now.

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Skycaptain
2 hours ago, GingerRose said:

I think I'll take Boris over any American Candidate right now.

Please, take him😋😋

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GingerRose
11 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

Please, take him😋😋

I wish. How can I fake his American citizenship Identity? 😄 

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Skycaptain
6 minutes ago, GingerRose said:

I wish. How can I fake his American citizenship Identity? 😄 

Just use Trump's, to most people you can't tell visually who's who 

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GingerRose
Just now, Skycaptain said:

Just use Trump's, to most people you can't tell visually who's who 

Yep one stayed out of the sun and one started tanning, who is to say who is who?

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6 minutes ago, GingerRose said:

I wish. How can I fake his American citizenship Identity? 😄 

Need to dissappear those documents where he renounced his American citizenship in 2016

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/08/boris-johnson-renounces-us-citizenship-record-2016-uk-foreign-secretary

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Skycaptain
Just now, GingerRose said:

Yep one stayed out of the sun and one started tanning, who is to say who is who?

There's a simple test. Ask them to finish a two-piece jigsaw puzzle 

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GingerRose
3 minutes ago, iff said:

Need to dissappear those documents where he renounced his American citizenship in 2016

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/08/boris-johnson-renounces-us-citizenship-record-2016-uk-foreign-secretary

I am not used to moderators being opinionated, it's different for me because when I was on TrevorSpace all the moderators had to stay neutral and not get involved in anything we talked about.

 

Nice!

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Janus the Fox

I've kept neutral on all fronts for as long as i can remember :P

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