ben8884 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) A place to discuss British politics. Everything from May to Brexit to Corbyn to Politics at large. Edited February 4, 2021 by Iam9man Changed title as agreed with OP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe the Stoic Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 brexit bad, corbyn good scotland 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lichley Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 They really should’ve come up with a better deal by now. If they were fully supporting leave as a party then they should have made plans for better negotiations to leave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, Lichley said: They really should’ve come up with a better deal by now. If they were fully supporting leave as a party then they should have made plans for better negotiations to leave. but a more acceptable deal to uk parliament still have to pass through each of the other 27 parliaments in the EU (as well as autonomous regions like wallonie, flanders etc) so it might pass the uk parliament but then Poland or Sweden or Ireland (considering the make up of the irish parliament, a deal with a hard border between ireland and northern ireland would be difficult to get through as government has only 56 seats and needs 79 seats to pass it so are reliant either on support from the nationalist fianna fail or 23 of the independent/smaller parties) or any of the other 24 parliaments may vote against ratifying it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe the Stoic Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 41 minutes ago, OptimisticPessimist said: I still don't understand Brexit. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Brexit bad; Corbyn bad; May bad. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Corbout very bad - even Trotsky, Marx and Castro would have regarded him as too left wing to actually run a sustainable country. He'd invite Putin to annexe Britain without a shout being fired. Brexit - ruination for the country May - stubborn, but cannot govern 300ish Tory MP's, never mind a country, and is being ruled by 10 DUP members 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I find corbyn is a very bad labour leader. With may's brexit debacle, if labour had a barely competent leader properly able to challenge may, they would have a good lead in support. The best thing for may is the very weak leadership of labour from corbyn. He is an inept and ineffectual leader and has damaged labour through it in a time, they could be really taking advantage of the chaoticnessat number 10. Labour policy under corbyn on brexit is neither cogent nor coherent, though not surprising considering this from 2015 https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-politics-labour-corbyn-idUKKCN0RB1IK20150911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ortac Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 14 hours ago, OptimisticPessimist said: I still don't understand Brexit. And neither do many of the people who voted for it, which makes it all the more appalling that it is happening. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I must say I find it absolutely incredible that the arch Brexiter James Dyson has decided to move his company headquarters to Singapore. As if it was not enough already to manufacture in Malaysia. If Brexit is as good for British businesses as he claims, why doesn't he set an example? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Problem with Brexit is that it is not a clear decision. The margin was less than 52-48, so it is not a clear will of the people. If the margin had been say 60-40 in either direction there would have been a clear mandate. I think Dyson has moved because since the Brexit vote all those willing to do manual work, namely our migrant workforce, have left, plus taxes etc are less over there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamsexual Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 9:39 AM, Skycaptain said: Problem with Brexit is that it is not a clear decision. The margin was less than 52-48, so it is not a clear will of the people . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Skycaptain said: I think Dyson has moved because since the Brexit vote all those willing to do manual work, namely our migrant workforce, have left, plus taxes etc are less over there. Thing is all the manual work has been done in Malaysia for many years already. The people employed in Britain are mostly highly qualified engineers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 So the People's Vote Campaign has decided to withdraw their bill for a third referendum because Corbyn will back one after an election. Basically, Corbyn reckons he can be PM and cares more about that than doing whats best to end the gridlock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 12:03 PM, Moonman said: At this point I'm wondering if the options are simply this deal or a slightly amended one being passed by Parliment or us leaving the EU with no deal. Certainly sounds like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 The Queen has waded in tentatively with some scarcely veiled comments about pulling together... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, chandrakirti said: The Queen has waded in tentatively with some scarcely veiled comments about pulling together... Wow. She doesn't do that, does she? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 @Sally, as a general rule she doesn't make public statements about political matters. However the prime minister and the Queen have regular meetings, so the government will know exactly what her viewpoint is Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just curious, no judgement intended, but pulling together how? Just relating it to the US currently, I'm not sure what "pulling together" here would entail. With the UK and Brexit and all I am even more clueless. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, daveb said: Just curious, no judgement intended, but pulling together how? You will certainly not get any detailed suggestions from the Queen about that. Giving a few hints in very broad and general terms is about as far as she ever goes. In this recent intervention she hasn't said much more than how nice it would be if people showed a bit of respect for each other and for each other's opinions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skycaptain Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 A divided government has split the country in two, and I doubt much short of civil war will sort this clusterfuck out 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 11:34 AM, timewarp said: Thing is all the manual work has been done in Malaysia for many years already. The people employed in Britain are mostly highly qualified engineers. Coincidentally Singapore and Eu signed a free trade agreement only 3 months ago http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1926 My understanding is a big part in moving the corporate headquarters is to do with intellectual property of the company. With the common market, it meant dyson patents would go from Ireland to Estonia, Sweden to Italy etc etc etc but by leaving the eea, a loss in the protection of the patents could occur. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 ..looks like they're playing at brinkmanship now. Rumours seem to abound in the press that some concessions are about to be made (we'll see that when it happens!). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire-Cat Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I do wonder what the original referendum result would have had the public been given a realistic idea about what the end result of Brexit might be. I mean lets be honest, a hard border was NEVER going to be a possibility because of Ireland and the only real way to solve that would be to give Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland. The EU were never going to give in to every demand make by the UK because then other countries where there's political unrest may look to follow suit. There's been other countries mention the possibility but I think seeing what a cluster Brexit has been may well put them off! For me there should be a second referendum. Accept May's deal, leave with no deal, or remain. And give people the knowledge they need to make an INFORMED decision, because let's be honest, the first referendum didn't allow that. I wonder why May is so scared of holding a second referendum. Maybe because she'd see that the last 2 years of her life have been a complete waste of time and money? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 9 hours ago, chandrakirti said: ..looks like they're playing at brinkmanship now. Rumours seem to abound in the press that some concessions are about to be made (we'll see that when it happens!). That could be correctly said about the US right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timewarp Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Cheshire-Cat said: And give people the knowledge they need to make an INFORMED decision That's not possible. The only way to find out is to try out what happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire-Cat Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, timewarp said: That's not possible. The only way to find out is to try out what happens. But it would be significantly more informed than the previous referendum. We would actually know what's on offer for one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Cheshire-Cat said: But it would be significantly more informed than the previous referendum. We would actually know what's on offer for one. Too late for that. Things move fast, especially when a vote (any vote, anywhere) is concerned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ortac Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 9 hours ago, Cheshire-Cat said: I wonder why May is so scared of holding a second referendum. Maybe because she'd see that the last 2 years of her life have been a complete waste of time and money? I don't know, but I do think that her vision is clouded on this matter and she is stubbornly refusing to "see the bigger picture" (as the Queen has urged). May has said repeatedly that to hold another referendum would be an affront to democracy and disrespectful to those 17.4 million who voted out. If the result of that referendum had been 90% voting to leave, I might possibly agree with her, but as it is, she is 100% wrong. In fact, I would say that she has a duty to hold another referendum and that not to do so would be an affront to democracy. Brexit is the hugest change that will happen to the UK since World War II, and it will fundamentally affect everyone including future generations who have had no say on it, and probably not for the better. Also, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible to reverse once it has happened. Considering the majority of the previous referendum was so slim and it could just have easily swung the other way, the prime minister has a duty to reach out to confirm her mandate. It is absolutely imperative to ask the electorate "Is this still what you want?" To say that you have had your chance to vote in 2016 and you can't reconsider is outrageous. That was two and a half years ago, equivalent to halfway through a political term. You wouldn't apply the same reasoning to a general election, would you? Sorry, you voted for a Conservative government, so now we are not holding any more elections for an entire generation, you had your chance to vote, you picked us and you can't change your mind! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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