Canadian political discussion thread

[ben8884]

question-do you like your Premier?

[Peachier]

On 8/22/2019 at 4:56 PM, ben8884 said:

question-do you like your Premier?

definitely not. douggie rly be out here ruining education for us. the amount of education cuts he's made for ontario makes me wanna switch provinces or move outta the country lowkey.

[Crazy Cat Lady]

On 8/22/2019 at 2:56 PM, ben8884 said:

question-do you like your Premier?

No way... (Kenney, ugh)

[Ortac]

I was wondering... what do people here make of the furore over Justin Trudeau dressing up as Aladdin and using skin darkening make-up? Am I the only one who thinks that the amount of fuss and outrage over this has been blown up beyond all reasonable proportions? Going by the anger being expressed by some people, you would think that the guy has assassinated someone.

[Homer]

Some people just turn acting offended into a profession, which is why it blows up until these people have found something else to act offended about.

 

What was the setting this happened in? Was there something like a carnival or whatever?

[Homer]

Just now, CBC said:

It was an "Arabian Nights" party at a private school in Vancouver where he was teaching in 2001.

To me that seems like a legitimate reason to dress up like that  unless there are some Canadian Clues I'm missing.

[Ortac]

Yeah, I'm not really getting it either. It seems that what has angered people specifically is the use of the brown skin make-up, but it is not as if he was using it in a derogatory manner intended to poke fun at or mock people with darker skin; he was just dressing up as Aladdin! 

 

I remember once in a school theatrical production aged 11, I had black make-up on my face. I was playing the part of a mole!

[ben8884]

Trouble is its actually happened at least 3 times. I am torn on the issue.

On the one hand, I completely see why this is unacceptable. Even in 2001 Trudeau really ought to have known better. I completely understand why people especially people of colour are offended.

That being said, I read an interview with our Minister of Defense-himself a Canadian of Indian ancestry said he spoke with Trudeau and that it would have been more of a problem had Trudeau not had an excellent record of race relations since being PM.  He mentioned specifically his work with Syrian refugees and creating a diverse cabinet. He goes on to say that no one would was a racist would have entrusted such an important Ministry like defense to him.

Also on a local level I actually like my Liberal MP. During the budget vote when the Conservatives out of protest were voting on every single thing, my MP stayed in Parliament until midnight than flew home so he could get to office and do some constituency work. To me, this is the sort of MP I want. 

I also like @CBC pointed out don't see the point of punishing Canada with a Scheer government-Scheer by the way who was filmed in 2005 saying he does not support same sex marriage. 

On a personal note like @CBC i am not exactly a Liberal party member-infact I intend to leaflet for the CPC but if Trudeau wins and gets his budget passed home ownership becomes more than just a fantasy so yeah...may have to vote Liberal-HOWEVER, once Parliament is in session I think there should be a resolution condemning Trudeau and the possibility of his resignation should be considered. 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ortac said:

I was wondering... what do people here make of the furore over Justin Trudeau dressing up as Aladdin and using skin darkening make-up? Am I the only one who thinks that the amount of fuss and outrage over this has been blown up beyond all reasonable proportions? Going by the anger being expressed by some people, you would think that the guy has assassinated someone.

 

What bothers me more about this, is the seedy timing. Right before an election. This has nothing to do with his actions and all to do with this. 

 

That bothers me more than anything. Manufactured outrage is worse than someone who is being targeted by it more than often. 

 

I honestly don't see the big deal when you look at the year he did it in.

 

Making a gay joke in 2001 would have gone over okay. Not so much now. Rightfully so. Yes. Am looking at Kevin Hart in saying this. 

 

What he did was foolish, however he not only owned it, but also added the other instance where he did something that is now perceived as racially insensitive. 

 

I used the correct wording. Nothing racist about his attire with the context that was provided. It was racially insensitive in today's era. Mostly would have gotten a laugh back then.

 

To assassinate his character over this, is pathetic. I would be out of a job with the stupid shit I did as a youth if I had cameras following me. 

 

If this is the worst he can be nailed for, hats off to his parents for how they raised him.

 

Also, keep in mind movies like White Chicks came out after with zero backlash telling you how socially acceptable his behavior was then. 

 

This is nothing, and should be treated as such in a month when everyone will have forgotten about it. 

 

People demanding for him to step down? Really?

[Sally]

Wearing blackface -- and he did  wear blackface on a separate occasion -- is not acceptable at the time and age he did it.  He wasn't 15.  

[Skycaptain]

Yup he erred, nearly two decades ago at a private event. Mea culpa should sort this. Especially if he now has a proven track record of improving race relations. 

If he'd actually broken the law, say gotten a speeding ticket, would there be this hoohah? This smacks of a piece of opportunism by someone with connections to one of the parties opposing him

[Guest]

On 9/20/2019 at 12:52 PM, Sally said:

is not acceptable at the time and age he did it.

2001 was an era where a gay joke would fly. It could end a career now. Rightfully so, in my opinion.

 

Where a lot more in the name of humor would not even be looked at twice.

 

There wasn't any racist intent behind his actions. People trying to paint him as a racist, don't understand what racism is. There is a specific intent behind racism.

 

Doesn't make what he did any less unacceptable. The point of that leak has nothing to do with the blackface. The timing has everything to do with the upcoming Canadian election.

This was a bombshell designed to crush his ability to get re-elected.

 

He's apologized to Canadians for his lapse of judgment.

 

A leader that admits to error, and asks for forgiveness from their country. Sounds like a leader that can govern a country if you ask me. 

 

Leaders aren't supposed to be perfect. They're supposed to stand up, and own up to their setbacks. If anything, this gets him more votes and does him zero damage at the polls.

 

Most people will read between the lines, and vote for him base on his last 4 years in office. What he's done for women and minorities in the sense of policy.

 

Such a lapse of judgment as a politician, and the only right move would be to resign.

[uhtred]

I think opinions on what is offensive change.  Certainly in the 80s and 90s, not sure about 2000, I wouldn't have thought about costumes at parties being offensive. They were justd dumb fun - barbarians, Romans, Arab sheikhs, zulu warriors, nazis, cross dressing, sexy nuns, priests, popes, Aztecs, Madonna (the religious figure or the singer)  etc etc.   My memory is that it just wasn't thought about in general.  I have no idea what my friends wore to parties - (other than my wife in a really nice demon costume....  the sexy sort of demon).

 

Now many of these are considered offensive - which is fine. Today I would see many of the above as offensive - but not back then.   Public opinion changes, and I don't think we should judge social behavior by past standards (criminal behavior is a different thing).  

 

BTW: I always dressed as a wizard.   (bathrobe and a stick - costumes are hard..)

[Sally]

2 hours ago, uhtred said:

I think opinions on what is offensive change.  Certainly in the 80s and 90s, not sure about 2000, I wouldn't have thought about costumes at parties being offensive. They were justd dumb fun - barbarians, Romans, Arab sheikhs, zulu warriors, nazis, cross dressing, sexy nuns, priests, popes, Aztecs, Madonna (the religious figure or the singer)  etc etc.   

Nazis were always offensive.  Look at that list again:  no one else perpetrated genocide.  

[iff]

A comprehensive list of times blackface is acveptable. Spoilering for length

 

Spoiler

 

 

It is not like people would not have realised he went as aladin without black face. It was an Arabian nights party. 

 

He has done wrong, apologised for it, and let's look at his record as a politician in term of race. 

[ben8884]

2 hours ago, iff said:

A comprehensive list of times blackface is acveptable. Spoilering for length

 

  Hide contents

 

 

It is not like people would not have realised he went as aladin without black face. It was an Arabian nights party. 

 

He has done wrong, apologised for it, and let's look at his record as a politician in term of race. 

This is how I feel. He did something stupid, apologized and now its up to the nation to see if we can move on. Personally I am not sure I could if it wasn't for the alternative and the fact that Trudeau has had excellent track record on race since becoming Prime Minister.

[uhtred]

13 hours ago, Sally said:

Nazis were always offensive.  Look at that list again:  no one else perpetrated genocide.  

Nazis are and were offensive, but Nazi *costumes* were not always offensive.   

[Guest]

He says it himself. He was a sheltered highly privileged white kid. 

 

Completely oblivious to the struggles of others. Type who go to Somalia to build a hut, so they can post it on Instagram then leave. Never understanding the struggle so looking down at it.

 

Basically the type for whom they feel it's a good idea to take a guided tour of the city slums, to feel sorry for others lesser fortunate than them. 

 

What he did was an honest mistake. Nothing more. Anyone trying to spin it as him being racist, are grasping at straws for votes. 

 

Donald Trump is someone who racist in both policy and behavior. 

 

Racist? Definitely not. 

 

Out of touch? Stupid? Likely better wording. 

[Guest]

What he did was all the more idiotic considering the political career that his father had.  

 

He may or may not have fully understood the microscope this would him under should he wish to follow a life in politics, himself.

[Sally]

On 9/22/2019 at 2:19 PM, uhtred said:

Nazis are and were offensive, but Nazi *costumes* were not always offensive.   

Since they directly reflect a genocidal government, yes, they were and are.  

[uhtred]

3 hours ago, Sally said:

Since they directly reflect a genocidal government, yes, they were and are.  

Remember Hogans Heroes?  it was a TV sitcom abut a ww2 prison camp and reasonably popular.    What the public considers offensive changes with time

[Sally]

3 hours ago, uhtred said:

Remember Hogans Heroes?  it was a TV sitcom abut a ww2 prison camp and reasonably popular.    What the public considers offensive changes with time

Yes, I remember it, and I and a good number of other people found it offensive then.   However, as you say, it was about a prison camp, not a concentration camp, and the prison guards were portrayed as Germans, not Nazis.  

[uhtred]

7 hours ago, Sally said:

Yes, I remember it, and I and a good number of other people found it offensive then.   However, as you say, it was about a prison camp, not a concentration camp, and the prison guards were portrayed as Germans, not Nazis.  

I do agree that concentration camp costumes were always offensive. 

 

Nazis seem an intermediate case. Not all Nazis were prison camp guards. The range of evil varied a great deal (though at its best, it was still evil). My memory was that nazi costumes were not considered offensive 30 years ago, but honestly I didn't go to a lot of parties, so I maybe mistaken.  It just seemed to me that back then people didn't take costumes seriously at all. 

[ben8884]

Not to derail but Hogan's Heroes was also a TV show. I watch lots of TV shows and movies where people dress up as Nazis for historical accuracy-I mean, you can't really have a show like "Man in the High Castle" without Nazis but its TV, fiction its not like the actor who plays the top Nazi wears the uniform when he's not filming.

By the way for any Canadian expats, you can now vote too! 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, uhtred said:

What the public considers offensive changes with time

Which is why people labeling him a racist when comedy was much more offensive in that era is laughable. 

 

It would be like Eddie Murphy getting grilled for his gay jokes in his Raw set, ignoring the crowd contorting with laughter due to it's acceptable nature back then.

[Karret]

17 hours ago, uhtred said:

Remember Hogans Heroes?  it was a TV sitcom abut a ww2 prison camp and reasonably popular.    What the public considers offensive changes with time

Not to mention the movie The Producers, which is about 2 people trying to make the worst play possible to get a bunch of money, and the title of that play was Springtime for Hitler, which was about well, I think you can guess.

[uhtred]

16 hours ago, Karret said:

Not to mention the movie The Producers, which is about 2 people trying to make the worst play possible to get a bunch of money, and the title of that play was Springtime for Hitler, which was about well, I think you can guess.

Separate from this discussion, that was a fantastically funny movie.  

[Guest]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:20 AM, uhtred said:

  It just seemed to me that back then people didn't take costumes seriously at all. 

Back then, you could have a turban, beard and (insert stereotypical additional attire) and likely would have been met with a roar of laughter. 

 

He was an idiot in painting not only his face, but his entire body. That's just a dumb move, but the idiocy of it in that era guaranteed got met with laughter. Not social scorn.

 

I see that faux pas in the same light as my rich white friend's out of touch mother cooking me food when I was over at her house as a teen.

 

Asking me if "your people eat chicken?" Do "your people like watermelon?"

 

Insert the many other (your people) questions she would add. 

 

She was even slowing down her speech like my English I was clearly responding to her with wasn't good enough o_O

 

Only offending part, was her feeding me a feast, then adding that her son had told her we were poor so "I kind of felt sorry for you". O_o

 

In this era back then--she would have been seen as kind for taking me under her wing. I would have been ungrateful for being offended and wanting to leave as I didn't know it was a pity party and I was the only invited. Of course, among his peers. Among any immigrants, it would have been anger.

 

I instantly lost my appetite, and wanted to leave. 

 

Cue in a couple decades almost. What she said would socially be seen as highly offensive and racist.

[Canadian_geek]

On 4/23/2019 at 7:49 PM, ben8884 said:

The CBC is predicting a minority government either PC or Green. If the PCs win, maybe the Greens the Liberals could form a coalition. 

It would be amazing if the greens get in, either minority green or as a coalition with another party. I'm meeting with the President of the Green party on October 21st. I'm seriously thinking bringing up some asexuality stuff up. 

[ben8884]

I think you should! In the UK the Greens wanted to make asexuality part of the sex ed curriculum.