Nowadays, asexuality is the only possible perspective which allows considering lifelong celibacy

[everywhere and nowhere]

You know how I feel much more committed not to the idea of asexual visibility as such, but rather to the vision of a broader, agency-positive perspective that would emphasise how everyone is "allowed" not to have sex and not to desire sex. In simpler words - sociocultural normalisation of sexual inactivity.

However, I realised how impossible this kind of perspective is nowadays. For example, I've been reading about "celibacy-shaming" and I've found this text:

Why Sex Positive Messaging Should Also Prevent Shaming Of Those Who Choose Celibacy

Unfortunately, it only considers celibacy in the framework of "waiting". And I'm not "waiting for marriage" or even "waiting for a serious relationship" (and, most specifically, not "waiting for Mr. Right"). I'm not "still a virgin" - I'm a virgin, period, since I don't intend to ever stop being one.

So even when sex positivity opens up to include acceptance of voluntary celibacy, it never considers the idea that for some people celibacy could be a preferred lifelong choice. Sex positivity also does sometimes open up to asexuality. However, these areas never meet.

I still think that we need a broader perspective, just to connect these dots. To show that even when non-clerical celibacy is most often temporary, for some people it's a preferred lifestyle. To show how, if you're asexual or just asexual-ish, the odds are that you may prefer to be celibate for life and that there's nothing wrong with that. But still, in today's culture this kind of perspective seems entirely absent.

[Dreamsexual]

.

[jay williams]

2 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

You know how I feel much more committed not to the idea of asexual visibility as such, but rather to the vision of a broader, agency-positive perspective that would emphasise how everyone is "allowed" not to have sex and not to desire sex. In simpler words - sociocultural normalisation of sexual inactivity.

However, I realised how impossible this kind of perspective is nowadays. For example, I've been reading about "celibacy-shaming" and I've found this text:

Why Sex Positive Messaging Should Also Prevent Shaming Of Those Who Choose Celibacy

Unfortunately, it only considers celibacy in the framework of "waiting". And I'm not "waiting for marriage" or even "waiting for a serious relationship" (and, most specifically, not "waiting for Mr. Right"). I'm not "still a virgin" - I'm a virgin, period, since I don't intend to ever stop being one.

So even when sex positivity opens up to include acceptance of voluntary celibacy, it never considers the idea that for some people celibacy could be a preferred lifelong choice. Sex positivity also does sometimes open up to asexuality. However, these areas never meet.

I still think that we need a broader perspective, just to connect these dots. To show that even when non-clerical celibacy is most often temporary, for some people it's a preferred lifestyle. To show how, if you're asexual or just asexual-ish, the odds are that you may prefer to be celibate for life and that there's nothing wrong with that. But still, in today's culture this kind of perspective seems entirely absent.

Great post. Of course, "celibacy," and "virgin" have different connotations. It should never matter why a person chooses "celibacy."  Everyone should be "allowed not to have sex and not to desire sex." There are sufficient numbers of men and women who do not desire sex. There are sufficient numbers of men and women who do not enjoy sex. If a person neither desires nor enjoys sex, that person should be accepted in our society, the same as someone who, say, does not want to drink cow's milk.

 

[jay williams]

What I am about to say will seem counterintuitive. Bdsm is a broad categorical umbrella. There is a significant percentage of such adherents who are not "sexually active" in what is commonly understood by that expression. The one common thread of bdsm adherents is that they don't much care about "vanilla" sex. Vanilla sex is roughly understood to be piv sex. Of course, bdsm people includes a huge variety of followers. So for every claim, there are exceptions for certain. However, you will certainly find significant numbers of men and women who are "celibate" in the sense of never seeking nor desiring piv sex. There is even a category of people whose preference is CFNM, which stands for clothed women, naked men.

In the world of bdsm, a women can proclaim, and many do proclaim, being totally averse to piv and/or vanilla sex.

So asexuals can find soul mates in the world of bdsm. 

[everywhere and nowhere]

For me BDSM is scary. I don't care if other people like it, but I have no desire whatsoever to try anything like this.

[œddy]

Im a bit confused how just because BDSM isn't strict piv, it isn't sexual in nature. I wouldn't consider it celibate to engage in it. Which is fine of course, just arguing semantics.

[Tasha the demi squirrel]

There is always going to be people who view Asexuality or Demisexuality etc as the same thing as celibacy which is quite annoying to have to explain the difference between orientation and choice but I agree with you that it shouldn't matter why someone doesn't want to have sex they should be respected 

[jay williams]

9 hours ago, œddy said:

Im a bit confused how just because BDSM isn't strict piv, it isn't sexual in nature. I wouldn't consider it celibate to engage in it. Which is fine of course, just arguing semantics.

I think that "bdsm," the letters, tend to be somewhat confusing. Bdsm is a huge umbrella word. It is really better understood as standing for kinky or non-vanilla. Not everyone is a sadist or a masochist, although some are. Few are into really extreme stuff, though some are. Bdsm is more associated with one being dominant and one being submissive or docile. It includes role reversals, with women sometimes being the "top" or the dominant and the male being the bottom or submissive. I hazard to say that most kinky or non-vanilla people consider themselves out of the norm of human sexuals, just as asexuals do.

Back to the question: I think it is better to say that what kinksters enjoy is considered erotic. In this sense, most asexuals have erotic interests, whether it is fantasy, masturbation or whatever. Finally, there are asexual, demisexual, gray sexual, gay, lesbian, and on and on...kinksters.  

A common fantasy among bdsm people is forced "chastity."  Now that is celibacy!   

[Sally]

2 hours ago, jay williams said:

In this sense, most asexuals have erotic interests, whether it is fantasy, masturbation or whatever.

I don't think that's correct.  Masturbation is not an "interest"; it's something that some (not most) asexuals do because of a physical urge.  BDSM is definitely sexual in nature, no matter how it plays out.  

[everywhere and nowhere]

I would agree that self-gratification is a sexual or erotic activity (which doesn't mean that it is "sex" - "sexual activity" doesn't equal "sex" and for libidoist sex-averse people the difference can be much greater). I don't have "urges". I just feel a willingness to have some erotic pleasure and I would never have partnered sex for that because of several reasons such as nudity aversion.

8 hours ago, jay williams said:

Bdsm is a huge umbrella word. It is really better understood as standing for kinky or non-vanilla. Not everyone is a sadist or a masochist, although some are. Few are into really extreme stuff, though some are. Bdsm is more associated with one being dominant and one being submissive or docile. It includes role reversals, with women sometimes being the "top" or the dominant and the male being the bottom or submissive.

And what I prefer (at least in third-person fantasies, because I never desire personally having partnered sex) is no power imbalance at all. For me sex and power is an inherently bad combination.

[andreas1033]

The problem is that gov want people having sex.

 

Govs until now, have not accepted in many cases there are such people, as those that never desired sex. Thats one of the main reasons i have been so blunt, in explaining from my understanding of being an asexual male, what it is like.

 

The problem comes, is that every gov, uses sex in there way to control there population. As they judge, the majority need sex, that means they see sex, as something everyone wants.

 

Like if you are alone, and do not want sex. Gov may judge you to be an anti social, and therefore target you, just because of that, and no other reasons.

 

You see how gov work, and in many ways they have to operate like this.

 

I am glad, that a board like this, may open up ideas to those in gov, that they start to just accept, at least some people, are naturally not going to be sexual humans. They will have no desires to be in the sexual group of people.

 

Thats why you see my posts can be really blunt, about how i am, and i know, that gov are probably analysing this board, and others, to judge, all types of different people.

[Homer]

I'll be that guy and ask why I would need to be allowed a perspective not to have sex in the first place.

 

I don't want sex, end of story. What am I missing?

[Pramana]

I would say that at least within secular liberal Western social circles, it's no longer politically correct to say that you're celibate for religious reasons, as that will conflict with the prevailing sex-positivity and accompanying belief that those who reject sex are repressed. So yes, I'd agree that within this particular context, asexuality is the only socially acceptable reason for being celibate. I'd also suggest that the identity politics histrionics of asexual communities are in large part an outcome of, and a reaction to, that reality.

[nanogretchen4]

There is a difference between not being allowed to be celibate and being allowed to be celibate but realizing that some people will think that is odd. For example, America has freedom of religion. Americans who wish to become celibate clergy of any religion that has celibate clergy are free to follow that path. Maybe some people will say rude things about them, but I think more people will be respectful and by far the majority don't much care and aren't really thinking about it or talking about it. If someone is perpetually single and doesn't give any explanation, people might assume that they are unable to find a partner rather than unwilling, and a few losers may say rude things, but again the great majority do not care and have never given it any thought. Secular people who are not asexual may wish to remain celibate because they value their independence, because they want to devote their time and energy to their career or to a cause, or because they have had bad experiences with relationships in the past. Again, in modern secular cultures they are free to do so, at the risk of a few losers being rude. Generally people overestimate how much time other people spend thinking about them.

[Touchofinsight]

Honestly its really easy being celibate from a Male perspective. At least it has been from my experience because for the most part people ask things like Do I have a girlfriend etc rather then "are you having sex" or something like that. I just say no I don't have a Girlfriend or love interest. I don't keep the company of people who would mock me for such things. I've been celibate for over a decade (but not always single) and although had some rocky spots in relationships its been mostly smooth sailing. Sure my mother and father believe I'll have a wife and kids in the future but I don't fault them for that because that was their upbringing and how they understand to live life. Its not meant in a malicious manner nor does it offend me.  I can't tell them that I willingly cut sex out of my life at the age of 20 and never looked back that's just a discussion we don't need to have. Is it the mostly healthy way to live life no probably not but the longer I did it the easier it became.

[everywhere and nowhere]

36 minutes ago, Touchofinsight said:

Is it the mostly healthy way to live life no probably not

Living while fighting your instincts is definitely "Bad For You". So, despite all the claims about health benefits of sex, I would say that a sex-free lifestyle is the healthiest lifestyle for people who inherently don't want to have sex.

For me these "health benefits of sex" is mostly propaganda anyway. First: I just don't believe that these benefits cannot be achieved through other methods, such as sport, meditation, nonsexual intimacy... Second: so if it can, the propaganda about health benefits of sex is based on the false assumption: that everyone likes sex and so people might be too lazy to work out, but they won't be too lazy to have sex. That people don't even need encouragement to do it. So if they don't, why does this propaganda keep encouraging people?

Actually, I believe in fact that it's dubious if sociocultural (as opposed to interpersonal) encouragement to have sex could benefit anybody. People who feel sexual desire really won't need encouragement to realise that they could have sex, and aces don't need all this pressure. People who don't want to have sex shouldn't have sex.

[Touchofinsight]

9 minutes ago, Nowhere Girl said:

Living while fighting your instincts is definitely "Bad For You". So, despite all the claims about health benefits of sex, I would say that a sex-free lifestyle is the healthiest lifestyle for people who inherently don't want to have sex.

For me these "health benefits of sex" is mostly propaganda anyway. First: I just don't believe that these benefits cannot be achieved through other methods, such as sport, meditation, nonsexual intimacy... Second: so if it can, the propaganda about health benefits of sex is based on the false assumption: that everyone likes sex and so people might be too lazy to work out, but they won't be too lazy to have sex. That people don't even need encouragement to do it. So if they don't, why does this propaganda keep encouraging people?

Actually, I believe in fact that it's dubious if sociocultural (as opposed to interpersonal) encouragement to have sex could benefit anybody. People who feel sexual desire really won't need encouragement to realise that they could have sex, and aces don't need all this pressure. People who don't want to have sex shouldn't have sex.

 

 

Yea it wasn't that difficult as up to that point most of my experiences with sex were neutral or negative however people who don't to have sex mostly won't while some people will mock it because they can't understand it but its up to the individual to not succumb to outside pressures to make choices and engage in behaviors that aren't in their own best interest. It's not always easy but it's a universal challenge everyone faces in many facets of life. Personally I laugh as my instincts for sex because i view the act and go wow so this is what all this is supposed to be about. I find it very comical the entire social hierarchy and the sexual marketplace and how they intersect.

[Sally]

11 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

 Generally people overestimate how much time other people spend thinking about them.

Definitely.  Sometimes it takes getting into your 30s to realize that; it's almost impossible to realize in your teens.

[WoodwindWhistler]

On 1/17/2019 at 8:54 PM, Nowhere Girl said:

For me these "health benefits of sex" is mostly propaganda anyway. First: I just don't believe that these benefits cannot be achieved through other methods, such as sport, meditation, nonsexual intimacy...

This. 

Really I think it mainly serves as a reassuring pat on the back, like "look you're doing this risky thing but it's ~good for you~ so don't worry about it."

It's like those articles that resurface every once in a while trying to hawk the benefits of caffeine or wine. Even though people can function perfectly well without either, and they each have drawbacks in addition to benefits, (and are expensive besides) people want reassurance about their habits and coping mechanisms. So they respond well and publishers given them more of what they want. 

Granted sex has more impulse behind it than either of those, but some people are convinced that sex "is the best stress reliever" when there are so many other coping mechanisms that aren't as complicated and probably give more consistent/even results.