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MGTOW, Incels, PUA's, & MRA's

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QueenOfTheRats
10 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

Of course. :). Who said otherwise?  Actually, I think technology is largely going to solve this problem anyway.  Sex bots are slowly becoming more mainstream, affordable and life like.  I expect this will, over time, reduce the incel problem.

I personally have issues with sex dolls because I think they teach objectification, which is inherently violent and misogynistic. If you look at a lot of old statures and painting of the female form, you see them with their arms and heads cut off. What does that tell you about the way society views gender? Is it any accident that the tools of autonomy: a brain to choose, and arms to resist are removed? Sex dolls are a modern extension of that theme. 

 

The incel problem could be solved by better parenting and education. Theirs is a delusion(like racism and sexism) that should be gradually stepped away from rather than fed into.

 

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Sage Raven Domino
2 minutes ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

I personally have issues with sex dolls because I think they teach objectification, which is inherently violent and misogynistic.

That's why I, too, have issues with realistic dolls and would prefer sex dolls to be abstract and customizable, delivering an unhuman experience instead of competing with humans for the same niche.

 

The purpose of a doll is to help act out fantasies so that the user don't have the urge to do that IRL. The user has to understand at all times that they're just playing a game and that the doll isn't real. Then it won't be any more harmful than a video game.

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Sure rants alot
11 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

Of course. :). Who said otherwise?  Actually, I think technology is largely going to solve this problem anyway.  Sex bots are slowly becoming more mainstream, affordable and life like.  I expect this will, over time, reduce the incel problem.

I've always heard it said that life imitates art: Ray Bradbury said we'd go to the moon, people called him crazy and guess what?
Which now reminds me of a movie I saw back in the 1980s with Melanie Griffith called Cherry 2000. Perhaps we aren't too far from that after all. I wouldn't want a bot for sex but would not be entirely opposed to one that was handsome(designed according to what my perception of handsome is) and served as my house husband with no sex involved. So if someone was satisfied with a bot and left children, women, young men, animals, disabled people, senior citizens etc.  alone then I'm not sure I'd be entirely opposed. I'm pretty sure we'll find out someday and we'll probably get it accomplished before I check out of this world.

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QueenOfTheRats
8 minutes ago, Sure rants alot said:

I've always heard it said that life imitates art: Ray Bradbury said we'd go to the moon, people called him crazy and guess what?
Which now reminds me of a movie I saw back in the 1980s with Melanie Griffith called Cherry 2000. Perhaps we aren't too far from that after all. I wouldn't want a bot for sex but would not be entirely opposed to one that was handsome(designed according to what my perception of handsome is) and served as my house husband with no sex involved. So if someone was satisfied with a bot and left children, women, young men, animals, disabled people, senior citizens etc.  alone then I'm not sure I'd be entirely opposed. I'm pretty sure we'll find out someday and we'll probably get it accomplished before I check out of this world.

I'm against robots of all kinds. The idea that people can be replaced by machines is a really ugly proposition we ALL stand to loose from, given enough time. Robots are going to take all our jobs, and force people into poverty. And don't tell me the prosperity will trickle down. That never happens.

 

 

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QueenOfTheRats
25 minutes ago, Sage Raven Domino said:

That's why I, too, have issues with realistic dolls and would prefer sex dolls to be abstract and customizable, delivering an unhuman experience instead of competing with humans for the same niche.

 

The purpose of a doll is to help act out fantasies so that the user don't have the urge to do that IRL. The user has to understand at all times that they're just playing a game and that the doll isn't real. Then it won't be any more harmful than a video game.

I think it would be better if people just stick to their hand and fantasizing.

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QueenOfTheRats
14 hours ago, uhtred said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that sex is more important that food and shelter.  It might be more important than many other things though. 

Love is more important than sex. Nobody ever died from lack of sex, but lack of love will literally kill newborn babies.

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Dreamsexual
40 minutes ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

I personally have issues with sex dolls because I think they teach objectification, which is inherently violent and misogynistic

Well, we'll have to disagree.  I don't sex dolls or sex toys an issue, and for people like me are as pretty much as close to a sexual or romantic relationship as we can get.

 

5 minutes ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

The idea that people can be replaced by machines is a really ugly proposition

I think it's a wonderful proposition!  Robots are great.  And I think humans will develop with integrated tech into a post human future.  Cool :)

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Sure rants alot

This is just an FYI but I just checked youtube and there is a MGTOW review for Cherry 2000. I think we are kind of headed in this direction whether or not we want to go there. The movie does explore how real women are devalued because of the female bots...bots who never age, who never say no, who do everything they are told to do. etc. etc.  It's a sci fi movie and I know that not everyone is into sci fi but the reviews are interesting.  Sort of like another movie The Stepford Wives.

It's rather terrifying to think about in my opinion. Kind of makes me wonder if, under the right circumstances, women might one day be completely phased out and the world will consist of men and their lifelike bots. *sigh*  Well, this was kind of deep, even for me 

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Dreamsexual
6 minutes ago, Sure rants alot said:

rather terrifying to think about in my opinion. Kind of makes me wonder if, under the right circumstances, women might one day be completely phased out and the world will consist of men and their lifelike bots. *sigh*  Well, this was kind of deep, even for me

I find it hopeful rather than depressing :)

 

For women to be 'phased out' though, would require artificial reproduction technology.  Which is also in the works.  So, do I think women will be phased out?  Sort of, yes.  But soon afterwards men will be too and then we'll be in the post human future.  But that's not going to be in my lifetime. :)

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Dreamsexual

NSFW/controversial:

 

 

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Sage Raven Domino
32 minutes ago, Sure rants alot said:

The movie does explore how real women are devalued because of the female bots...bots who never age, who never say no, who do everything they are told to do. etc. etc.

What stops humans born with XX from behaving like tomboys, though, if that turns out the happiest life strategy under the new circumstances?

 

We can't decide on our genes, but we can decide on our actions.

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Howard
1 hour ago, Sage Raven Domino said:

What stops humans born with XX from behaving like tomboys, though, if that turns out the happiest life strategy under the new circumstances?

In no circumstances I would want someone to behave in a way that makes them unhappy. For that reason, I think sex bots are a good thing. Please, stop me if I'm wrong and show me where my thoughts are flawed, wouldn't sex bots help sex workers off the streets? I mean, I work with community college educated women who do what they like. Robots are no where near to take their jobs because of the complexity and versatility required from them, so I don't see sex bots as my colleagues anytime soon. If robots take care of a type of work that oppresses people, make them more vulnerable to violent crime like rape and murder, wouldn't that be a good thing?

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uhtred
2 hours ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

Love is more important than sex. Nobody ever died from lack of sex, but lack of love will literally kill newborn babies.

For some people love, romance and sex are intertwined. They can't really feel romantic love without the romance and sex. 

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Sage Raven Domino

Well, there are countries (and the US state of Nevada) where sex work is legal, and sex workers from those areas will be made redundant if sexbots attain proficiency, however, sex work is indeed a dangerous and stressful occupation even where it's legal, and I'd be happy to see those workers figure out how to contribute to the society in a more useful and more fulfilling way. 

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uhtred
14 hours ago, Dreamsexual said:

Of course. :). Who said otherwise?  Actually, I think technology is largely going to solve this problem anyway.  Sex bots are slowly becoming more mainstream, affordable and life like.  I expect this will, over time, reduce the incel problem.

I think robots will help a lot for the ones who just want sex. For those who want sex AND romance AND love, it will  take some other solution .

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uhtred
3 hours ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

I personally have issues with sex dolls because I think they teach objectification, which is inherently violent and misogynistic. If you look at a lot of old statures and painting of the female form, you see them with their arms and heads cut off. What does that tell you about the way society views gender? Is it any accident that the tools of autonomy: a brain to choose, and arms to resist are removed? Sex dolls are a modern extension of that theme. 

 

The incel problem could be solved by better parenting and education. Theirs is a delusion(like racism and sexism) that should be gradually stepped away from rather than fed into.

 

Many old statues were damaged - the originals had arms, legs, heads and (to most people's surprise) color.  Maybe i'm thinking greek and roman statues - are you thinking of something different?  

 

I see sex robots as sex toys, just like vibrators and the like.  Just a simple physical device.   I'm sure some people would develop unhealthy interactions, but for many they would just substitute for the inability to get the real thing - and that seems good to me. 

 

People don't get to choose their parents.  Mine never talked to me about sex, love or romance, and it was only later in life that I realized that what I saw as a child was not normal - that they were a cold distant loveless couple who avoided each other as much as possible.  The told me over and over that they "loved" each other, so I saw their behavior as love.  It was too late for me when I realized it wasn't. 

 

Incel has different meanings.  Wanting sex does not seem unhealthy. The unhealthy part is the actions some people take to get it

 

 

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Dreamsexual
2 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I think robots will help a lot for the ones who just want sex. For those who want sex AND romance AND love, it will  take some other solution .

Not really.  I've come across a number of Hetero allo men who have developed feelings for their sex dolls or chatbots etc.  It's not the same, but tech even now can at least be a poor imitation.  In the future, as AI develops, it will quickly be even more so.  Full intelligence and consciousness is not required for a fair few.

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uhtred
1 minute ago, Dreamsexual said:

Not really.  I've come across a number of Hetero allo men who have developed feelings for their sex dolls or chatbots etc.  It's not the same, but tech even now can at least be a poor imitation.  In the future, as AI develops, it will quickly be even more so.  Full intelligence and consciousness is not required for a fair few.

Its an interesting question of what different people are looking for in a sex robot.  I don't know. 

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Dreamsexual
3 minutes ago, uhtred said:

Its an interesting question of what different people are looking for in a sex robot.  I don't know. 

It varies a lot.  From my experience (on sex doll forums and elsewhere), the users of sex dolls often fit into one of the following broad categories: people who can't have normal sex relationships (because of disability, or psychological issues, or health, etc); people or couples wanting a sex toy; mgtows; and digi/objectumsexuals.

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QueenOfTheRats
42 minutes ago, uhtred said:

For some people love, romance and sex are intertwined. They can't really feel romantic love without the romance and sex. 

So the love you feel for your pet or your grandma doesn't count?

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Dreamsexual
10 minutes ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

So the love you feel for your pet or your grandma doesn't count?

Didnt they specify romantic love?

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QueenOfTheRats
38 minutes ago, uhtred said:

Many old statues were damaged - the originals had arms, legs, heads and (to most people's surprise) color.  Maybe i'm thinking greek and roman statues - are you thinking of something different?  

 

I see sex robots as sex toys, just like vibrators and the like.  Just a simple physical device.   I'm sure some people would develop unhealthy interactions, but for many they would just substitute for the inability to get the real thing - and that seems good to me. 

 

People don't get to choose their parents.  Mine never talked to me about sex, love or romance, and it was only later in life that I realized that what I saw as a child was not normal - that they were a cold distant loveless couple who avoided each other as much as possible.  The told me over and over that they "loved" each other, so I saw their behavior as love.  It was too late for me when I realized it wasn't. 

 

Incel has different meanings.  Wanting sex does not seem unhealthy. The unhealthy part is the actions some people take to get it

 

 

There are also a lot of artistic nude photographs where the head and arms are cropped out, I'm sure you have seen them...and think about the way mannequins that sell clothing are designed to have no heads or faces. Serial killers also have a habit of removing heads and hands of their victims before disposing of their body, and necrophiles will often depersonalize their victims by covering their faces during sex. Though this they render their victims anonymous objects. This is an extreme example, but I think sex dolls are on a spectrum with this. When they are "used up" they get disposed of in landfills, which is ironically the exact same location many murdered sex workers end up.  Idk, it seems to be a strong enough theme that there has to be some sort of psychology behind it. That coupled with people's need to have sex with an object rather than a person(when objectification is a big thing in our society)doesn't seem to happen on accident. Our sexuality doesn't exist in a vacume, it's a reflection of the world we live in. For many years, consent wan't even a thing, and people just raped one another. The idea that you should have a "right" to another person's body is an old concept, as is that people are objects that can be traded against their will. This is the bases for slavery, prostitution and (in some cases) sex slavery.

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QueenOfTheRats
4 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Didnt they specify romantic love?

Some people don't experience romantic love at all.

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Dreamsexual
Just now, QueenOfTheRats said:

Some people don't experience romantic love at all.

True.  But it seems fairly self evident that for most people sex and romance are intwined to some degree.  

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QueenOfTheRats
Just now, Dreamsexual said:

True.  But it seems fairly self evident that for most people sex and romance are intwined to some degree.  

I'm not denying that, I just don't think it's important.

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Dreamsexual
2 minutes ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

This is an extreme example, but I think sex dolls are on a spectrum with this

I think sex dolls are more on the same spectrum as dildos than serial killers.  I mean, dildoes and vibrators are basically the objectification of a single part of the male body, dismembered, and they've been around for a while now with no obvious increase in female serial killers.

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Dreamsexual
1 minute ago, QueenOfTheRats said:

I'm not denying that, I just don't think it's important.

Sorry, you've lost me.  You don't think what's important?  That sex and romance are entwined for most people?

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QueenOfTheRats
3 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

Sorry, you've lost me.  You don't think what's important?  That sex and romance are entwined for most people?

I don't think it's important that sexual attraction is a big part of romantic love for some people. That's like saying that the second your partner is no longer attractive to you, you stop loving them. To me that is the shallowest and worst version of love I can possibly imagine. 

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Dreamsexual
Just now, QueenOfTheRats said:

I don't think it's important that sexual attraction is a big part of romantic love for some people. That's like saying that the second your partner is no longer attractive to you, you stop loving them. To me that is the shallowest and worst version of love I can possibly imagine. 

Well, you might not think it important, but they do :). And by they I mean most of humanity :)

And no, it isn't like saying that once they're not attractive you don't love them anymore, though I agree this is a factor.

And I don't really see why that is shallow, though.  It's just evolution, IMHO. :)

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QueenOfTheRats
6 minutes ago, Dreamsexual said:

I think sex dolls are more on the same spectrum as dildos than serial killers.  I mean, dildoes and vibrators are basically the objectification of a single part of the male body, dismembered, and they've been around for a while now with no obvious increase in female serial killers.

Yeah, there is a really big difference between a sex toy and a sex doll. Also, men don't have the same history of sexual objectification that women do.

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