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James121

Would you leave

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ryn2
11 minutes ago, James121 said:

Bingo! For some, sex is a bonus that happens for fun here and there. Such a good way to word it. Unfortunately if you are in the ‘sex is an essential part of intimacy’ category, you are open to the unsavoury comments that often get chucked around on forums such as this one and in life in general.

Well, if there really is a divide of that nature within the category “sexual” it makes sense there’s going to be a lot of misunderstanding as people try to apply their own experience (which they have no reason to assume isn’t shared) to others’ comments and behavior.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 hour ago, James121 said:

’s not disgusting at all for my wife to want sex, me not to be particularly in that mood but to go along with it any way to please her. It’s called being selfless and considerate of her desire and feelings.

And that only goes so far if sex is actually a huge sacrifice. Because in that case you're having to make a massive sacrifice for your partner's happiness. For YOU, sex isn't a huge sacrifice and doesn't take a huge emotional toll, and I imagine you quite enjoy it - so of course it's not going to be difficult for you. But if for example she wanted to stick a huge electric rod up your arse and that was all she could get off on and nothing else.. sex might start seeming like a pretty big and difficult sacrifice for you to make. If you're into electrocution just imagine something you really don't want, like her crapping on your face or something. She might love it, so you have to make this huge sacrifice that takes this massive toll on you *every single time* she wants her form of sexual gratification. It's not fun for you. You don't enjoy it. You don't orgasm (not in a way that brings you any real pleasure anyway). And you'd rather not do it. That's what sex is like for asexuals who end up trying to avoid it. But it's the only thing that makes her feel truly intimately satisfied. If you'd ever been in that situation you'd know that over time it gets harder and harder to meet those needs until you find yourself actively trying to avoid intimacy just so you don't have to go through that yet again for the sake of her happiness.

 

You're looking at this from the perspective of someone who enjoys and desires sex and can probably get in the mood quite easily.. of course it's not going to be difficult for you if she wants it. But if she wants to crap on your head (just think of something you're really, really not into).. well.. maybe that's going to be a little bit more tricky for you to muster enthusiasm for in the long-term.

 

1 hour ago, James121 said:

They have to be open minded enough and know their body well enough to know when they are saying no because they really can’t/don’t want to

And that's what it is for an asexual who is trying to avoid sex. Every. Single. Time.

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Winged Whisperer
17 minutes ago, Ficto. said:

Crapping and all

Someone send me some Brain Bleach.

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ryn2

To add to Ficto’s point about “vanilla” sex acts for aces being comparably draining to kink for non-kinky people... imagine having to undertake whatever kinky act doesn’t do it for you with someone (nice, that you care about and want to see happy, but) that you have absolutely zero sexual attraction to/sexual desire for.  Most of the sexual folks posting here have indicated that they only find some people sexually attractive and desirable... so imagine having to participate in this kink with one of the many others who just isn’t.

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James121
1 hour ago, Ficto. said:

But if for example she wanted to stick a huge electric rod up your arse

Why thank you for the compliment but I have a very mediocre 9 inch penis 🤭 Seriously, I get what you are saying....I think.

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nanogretchen4

Wow, this hypothetical kinky/vanilla couple sounds nightmarishly incompatible. Why would they want to destroy each other's lives like that? I sure do hope at least one of them will have the sense to bail out. And I would really hope that they would both learn from this horrible experience and, going forward, look exclusively for compatible partners to date. 

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E
9 hours ago, Winged Whisperer said:

 Anyway, sorry for the tangent, is this weird? Have you ever encountered something similar?

Yep. Perfectly natural for either sex to experience. What you're experiencing is short term infatuation rather than love, although infatuation is a form of love.

 

Especially for guys, this is a common thing. You see somebody pretty, you start thinking about them. And you're allured by the fantasy in things. It's literally that simple. It's not because you don't love your partner, it's because evolution-wise, it's your job to spread copies of you around to ensure the survival of the species. You achieve that the most effectively by having multiple partners. It's hardwired into your genetics.

 

But here's where I say that love is a choice. Some guys, some women, they cheat on their partners when they find those individuals that hit all the right buttons for them. And the need to cheat arises faster if there's something going unfullfilled in another relationship. But that's beside the point. Point being, love is a choice in that you choose to stay with your partner. You see those certain people, you get infatuated with them, and surely, you could act on those notions and cheat.

 

But where would that leave your partner? Somebody who trusted you? You'd be throwing away a relationship that you already have with somebody for no good reason, and you'd be hurting them so badly, that if they ever found out, for many people, it leaves a wound so deep that they never recover. Lord knows all the horrendously bitter people I've bumped into that've had people cheat on them.

 

So, what truly counts is whether or not you actually act on those feelings.

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Serran

Yeah....

 

Having sex with my partner I love and desire, wouldnt be hard. Even if not in the mood really. Because even when its meh, its still nice. 

 

Sex with someone I didnt desire but cared for - was OK but a chore at first and gradually became so draining I would have preferred working a 12 hour shift of exhausting work to having sex for 40 minutes. It just took everything out of me and I had no energy left to enjoy life. 

 

So its easy to say yeah I am totally willing to have sex if not in the mood ... when you are already into your partner sexually. Its not the same at all as when you arent into your partner sexually. 

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Telecaster68
34 minutes ago, Serran said:

ts easy to say yeah I am totally willing to have sex if not in the mood ... when you are already into your partner sexually. Its not the same at all as when you arent into your partner sexually. 

This is the key difference between sexual/asexual relationships, and relationships where two sexuals have even markedly different libidos. If the issue is basically 'Nice thought, but I'm tired' and/or 'I need persuading', it's qualitatively different to 'I'd rather not, ever'. 

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Serran
9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is the key difference between sexual/asexual relationships, and relationships where two sexuals have even markedly different libidos. If the issue is basically 'Nice thought, but I'm tired' and/or 'I need persuading', it's qualitatively different to 'I'd rather not, ever'. 

Very, very different. But, hard to understand I guess if you havent experienced the other side.. so sexual partners often are thinking of no sex in their perspective, which makes it seem like a small thing to give. 

 

Like... I didnt really get how not in the mood could ever be a yes that wasnt a big deal. Until my current relationship. If im not in the mood, my partner can get me there. If she cant, its at least nice to do her. 

 

That is so drastically different from how I felt in every other relationship though. It was never nice, just at best tolerable. 

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Telecaster68
Just now, Serran said:

exual partners often are thinking of no sex in their perspective, which makes it seem like a small thing to give. 

I agree. And when the penny does drop that sex is an intense negative for your partner, it's a real blow.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
9 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

Wow, this hypothetical kinky/vanilla couple sounds nightmarishly incompatible. Why would they want to destroy each other's lives like that? I sure do hope at least one of them will have the sense to bail out. And I would really hope that they would both learn from this horrible experience and, going forward, look exclusively for compatible partners to date. 

To clarify, I was trying to illustrate for a sexual person what it feels like for an ace who doesn't want sex who is giving it to their partner for the sake of the partner's happiness: That's a pretty common dynamic. You're having to make a sacrifice for their happiness and it's not easy or fun or pleasurable for the asexual person making the sacrifice. Some describe it as like having to do a massive pile of moldy dishes so your partner can feel happy and loved, some describe it like having to fold endless washing, some (for me) found it very painful and uncomfortable and incredibly boring - like if your partner needed to poke your bellybutton very hard to be happy or if they wanted to lick inside your eyeballs. None of this actually hurts or damages you permanently, you just *don't get any joy or fun or pleasure* from it and find it extremely boring and unnecessary. That's why making that sacrifice for a partner's happiness becomes harder and harder even though you do really want to try to make them happy.

 

James seemed to be looking at it from the perspective of a sexual person who already does have an underlying enjoyment and preference for sexual intimacy, so of course giving sex for the sake of a partners happiness is going to seem quite different to him. That's like me gaming with a partner for the sake of their happiness - I already really like gaming, can try all different sorts of games and get some form of pleasure from them (even damn sports ones, lol), and can get in the mood really fast even if I didn't feel like gaming initially. That's probably what sex is like for someone like James if his partner wants it but he wasn't entirely in the mood initially. Whereas for an ace who really doesn't enjoy sex at all (not repulsed, just really doesn't get anything out of it at all) that sacrifice can become harder and harder to make no matter how much you love your partner and want to be able to make them happy. 

 

I had to use rather extreme sexual examples for James because many sex acts are probably going to seem quite fun (him being sexual).  To me, being heavily involved in the kink community, those two examples I gave are actually pretty tame. But they are (hopefully for the sake of my example) acts that James doesn't see much innate pleasure in so mig If couples like doing those things with each other though they are not incompatible

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I agree. And when the penny does drop that sex is an intense negative for your partner, it's a real blow.

What I appreciate is that some sexual partners do get to the point of being able to understand that, even if that makes them realise they have to leave their relationship as a result or whatever.

 

What get's to me is when some sexual partners continue to insist that the asexual is being manipulative or cruel for 'holding back' and that as sex is something that's so easy to give the ace is practically breaking the bonds of monogamy by not putting out so shouldn't be surprised when they get cheated on. In these cases, the sexual person is ONLY looking at this from the perspective of someone who could quite easily give sex even if they weren't really in the mood initially, and who could still get enjoyment out of it and find it fun. But that's not what it's like for many aces. For some, it's a very negative and draining experience which doesn't create intimacy at all, and instead makes them feel LESS intimate and less close with their partner. And that's a sacrifice they try to make for as long as they can in some cases, but it just get's too draining so eventually they start trying to avoid it and get out of it through any means possible. But not because they are manipulative or cruel.. it's just very hard to continue to do something that has such a negative impact on your mind, your energy stores, and your emotions.

 

 

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anisotrophic

Is this a dumb question, I don't know, do sexual partners say "thank you"? Like... a lot? Explicitly?

 

Because once I understood he didn't want it, I thought about what sort of things I'd want if I felt like I was doing a chore. And I felt it was really important to express gratitude.

 

Well, maybe this isn't enough in a lot of situations. It seemed like a minimum to me...

 

(I was thanking him for sex before that too sometimes, but not like "again the next day".)

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Sally
1 hour ago, Ficto. said:

For some, it's a very negative and draining experience which doesn't create intimacy at all, and instead makes them feel LESS intimate and less close with their partner. And that's a sacrifice they try to make for as long as they can in some cases, but it just get's too draining so eventually they start trying to avoid it and get out of it through any means possible. But not because they are manipulative or cruel.. it's just very hard to continue to do something that has such a negative impact on your mind, your energy stores, and your emotions.

 

 

Yes to all of that.  I continued to have sex with my partner until I learned that the reason I just couldn't get into it was because my body/brain just wasn't designed to -- asexuality.  I told my partner, and we decided we'd stop having sex.  It took him a while to understand 1) it wasn't him, and 2) I'd been trying all those  years, not manipulating him (why on earth that would occur to a sexual  I don't know).  He could have left me and I understood that might be his decision, but he decided not to.  He went through his coming-to-terms period, and has not talked about it since.  The blow that he took has not been re-experienced because he has not perseverated about it.  I think that some  sexuals might be better off if -- once they came onto AVEN and had better information about their "blows" -- they'd  get off AVEN and stop re-experiencing it over and over.   In other words -- make a personal decision about it (stay or leave), and move on.  

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nanogretchen4

I think that generally speaking when someone finds out that their partner in a longterm relationship has an incompatible sexual orientation, they should leave. There may be rare exceptions, but mostly they should leave. Don't cheat, don't brood and rage for years, don't seek vengeance on the asexual, don't pressure the asexual for sex. Just leave and get on with your life. 

 

That said, I fully expect my partner in any relationship to be honest about their feelings for me and to communicate honestly with me about sex. If at any time they don't want sex, I expect them to tell me that so that we won't have sex. If they think they don't want sex because of a medical problem, they should tell me that. If they think they don't want sex because of trauma, they should tell me that. They don't have to tell me it's a sexual orientation if they don't know that, but it is not okay if they keep their mouth shut and have sex with me over and over for years while pretending to want and enjoy it. Gaslighting like that would make me doubt everything my partner ever said to me, every experience we had shared for years, every sexual or romantic relationship I had ever had. And yes, I would leave, but I would definitely need therapy after that and I think it would be a long time before I would be ready for another relationship. Sexuals don't have magical abilities to just shake something like that off.

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Philip027
Quote

They don't have to tell me it's a sexual orientation if they don't know that, but it is not okay if they keep their mouth shut and have sex with me over and over for years while pretending to want and enjoy it.

While I do agree with you to some extent, society is largely to blame too for something like this happening.  There's a lot of harmful pervasive attitudes toward this that are accepted as "normal" that don't help matters ("lie back and think of England", "you just need to keep trying until you like it", etc) and when you combine that with a person who might just not like "rocking the boat" as it were, you will occasionally end up with unfortunate scenarios like this.

 

I'm not sure labeling this as outright "gaslighting" is fair.  Gaslighting is a deliberate malicious attempt to fuck someone up mentally and make them question themselves, which most of the people trying to tolerate sex are not trying to do.  If anything, most of these people are trying to figure out what's wrong with themselves (because everyone is "supposed" to enjoy sex with the person they supposedly love, right?), not trying to get the sexual partner to think that way about themselves.

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nanogretchen4

If you are trying to make someone think you want and enjoy sex with them, that is deliberate, and it certainly has most of the same effects on the deceived party as gaslighting. Perhaps it is not malicious, in the sense that the harm done is a side effect rather than the main goal. How about instead of malice we call it gross negligence?

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ryn2
26 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

If you are trying to make someone think you want and enjoy sex with them, that is deliberate, and it certainly has most of the same effects on the deceived party as gaslighting. Perhaps it is not malicious, in the sense that the harm done is a side effect rather than the main goal. How about instead of malice we call it gross negligence?

Sometimes you’re trying to make *yourself* think it... and other times you just don’t realize how different your experience is from others’.

 

I don’t think it’s gaslighting (or gross negligence, which says you should have known; how?), but I agree that the whole situation can suck for everyone.

 

I do still feel like people oversimply “just packing up and going” in long relationships, though.  Not everyone prioritizes personal happiness above all else and leaving a long relationship can have far-reaching effects that interfere with happiness anyway.

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nanogretchen4

Are you saying that "just packing up and going" causes a lot of damage and therefore mixed orientation relationships are even more harmful than I think they are? Or are you saying that "just packing up and going" causes a lot of damage and therefore sexuals should just sacrifice all hope of being happy themselves in order to fulfill asexuals' dreams of lifelong sex free marriage with sexuals?

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

Are you saying that "just packing up and going" causes a lot of damage and therefore mixed orientation relationships are even more harmful than I think they are? Or are you saying that "just packing up and going" causes a lot of damage and therefore sexuals should just sacrifice all hope of being happy themselves in order to fulfill asexuals' dreams of lifelong sex free marriage with sexuals?

I think you're twisting everything everyone says to suit your own agenda.

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Chihiro

Irrelevant.

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Sally
2 hours ago, Philip027 said:

I'm not sure labeling this as outright "gaslighting" is fair.  Gaslighting is a deliberate malicious attempt to fuck someone up mentally and make them question themselves, which most of the people trying to tolerate sex are not trying to do.  If anything, most of these people are trying to figure out what's wrong with themselves (because everyone is "supposed" to enjoy sex with the person they supposedly love, right?), not trying to get the sexual partner to think that way about themselves.

Definitely agree.  

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

Aaaah..it's really weird that someone came into this thread and asked some rather off topic questions that weren't really even relevant to what they were quoting (and the quote itself had missed the point of what I was saying initially anyway).. Then the person who asked the questions demands in bold letters not to be quoted or tagged because they don't want notifications even though they're apparently following the thread... Haven't seen that on AVEN before but I guess there's a first for everything. :o

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Chihiro

Irrelevant

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

No I just found it odd that you're actively following the thread (if you mean you clicked the 'follow' button) which should give you notifications every time someone comments anyway? I just didn't see what difference a few more notifications would make.

 

Aaaaand I quoted you to respond to you, so I will go and delete the quote. Which makes things look clunky.

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Chihiro

Irrelevant.

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Sally
33 minutes ago, Chihiro said:

P.S- DONT QUOTE OR TAG ME, I am actively following this thread

If people want to reply to something you said, that's why quotes are used.  That has nothing to do with whether you're following the thread or not.   Your demand seems kind of odd.  

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Philip027

Notifications can be disabled if you don't want to see when you've been quoted or namedropped.  I don't know how it works on mobile necessarily but on desktop you just click the bell at the top and then click Notification Settings.

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James121
5 hours ago, Philip027 said:

("lie back and think of England", "you just need to keep trying until you like it", etc)

The message in the UK for at least the last 40 years has been the complete opposite of this. It’s more along the lines of “you are under zero obligation to say yes”

 

5 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

Don't cheat, don't brood and rage for years, don't seek vengeance on the asexual, don't pressure the asexual for sex. Just leave and get on with your life. 

Sometimes just leaving, just isn’t that easy. Especially when you effectively wave goodbye to the relationship as you know it with your children and your house/assets.

 

7 hours ago, Sally said:

He went through his coming-to-terms period, and has not talked about it since.

A sexual person who is not having sex is one of 3 things. 

1) cheating

2) planning to leave

3) unhappy

 

Why do you think he doesn’t talk about it? He’s attempting to bury it but no way is he happy.

 

19 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Most of the sexual folks posting here have indicated that they only find some people sexually attractive and desirable... so imagine having to participate in this kink with one of the many others who just isn’t.

Most sexuals wouldn’t go ahead and marry that person who they have no desire for or can’t enjoy the kink that is being desired. That’s precisely the issue!

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