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James121

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Also, when I said I don’t care for romcoms or romantic dramas, I wasn’t referring to shows with sex... I just don’t care for genres where the romantic relationship is the main story.

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Telecaster68

Added some more into that post original post about Basic Instinct.

 

The script describe it far more flatly.... here's a link.

 

The two scenes are Page 15 and Page 35.

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Also, when I said I don’t care for romcoms or romantic dramas, I wasn’t referring to shows with sex... I just don’t care for genres where the romantic relationship is the main story.

I know - but most have a least some kind of sex scene or lead up to it. And the point stands: all that will they won't they stuff is a coincidence when all they need to do is to be in the same room at the same time and horny?

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4 minutes ago, James121 said:

You should disclose it in the interest of fairness and to save so much heartache down the line.

Agreed. Personally I'm not alright with much leeway on this. Right upfront. Not the first sentence out of your mouth, not going round wearing a sandwich board that says "I'M ASEXUAL", but before any dates. Before significant feelings. Anything else is cruel. Even if unintentionally.

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If your intent is to not date asexuals/people with sexual interests (or lack thereof) different than your own, your safest route to achieving your goal is to ask.

 

If you ask, you know.

 

If you don’t ask, you’re taking a risk.

 

If you want to take that risk, it’s your choice, but to me avoiding what I didn’t want beats out being righteously angry that I “got had” every time.

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1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Also, when I said I don’t care for romcoms or romantic dramas, I wasn’t referring to shows with sex... I just don’t care for genres where the romantic relationship is the main story.

This made me so fricken mad about the movie for Fever Pitch. Fever Pitch is an autographic book about the author and his life as a supporter of Arsenal FC. I loved that book, it's a classic :D whereas the movie is just a rom com thingy with a bit of football shoehorned into it. Much disappoint.

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Asexuals are such a tiny minority of the population. It's literally not normal to ask upfront "Hey, so... are we going to have sex ever at any point?" I do not see it as a sexual person's responsibility to ask whatsoever.

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Telecaster68
Just now, Homer said:

This made me so fricken mad about the movie for Fever Pitch. Fever Pitch is an autographic book about the author and his life as a supporter of Arsenal FC. I loved that book, it's a classic :D whereas the movie is just a rom com thingy with a bit of football shoehorned into it. Much disappoint.

There's a first. Disappointed by insufficient Arsenal.

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7 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Added some more into that post original post about Basic Instinct.

 

The script describe it far more flatly.... here's a link.

 

The two scenes are Page 15 and Page 35.

I went back and read your addition.  Yes, that’s how I recall understanding it.  My additional take was that Sharon’s character was using sexuality to prove to Michael’s character that he was as enslaved to his animal nature as he thought she was.

 

I’m reaching, though.  It was. what, 26 years ago?

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3 minutes ago, Ceebs. said:

Asexuals are such a tiny minority of the population. It's literally not normal to ask upfront "Hey, so... are we going to have sex ever at any point?" I do not see it as a sexual person's responsibility to ask whatsoever.

I think it’s both people’s responsibility to discuss what’s important to them as a relationship begins to unfold.

 

Where someone has really hard showstoppers, though, it’s wiser to bring them up than to assume.

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

There's a first. Disappointed by insufficient Arsenal.

It's kind of appropriate though, as the book reads "The natural state of the football fan is bitter disappointment, no matter what the score”.

 

(I do not recall ever watching basic instinct, but movies aren't my strong suit. Might have 20 movies in total over the course of my lifetime)

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Telecaster68
9 minutes ago, Ceebs. said:

Asexuals are such a tiny minority of the population. It's literally not normal to ask upfront "Hey, so... are we going to have sex ever at any point?"

I'm back on the market, dating a bit. No sex, yet, but lots of IMs on Tinder, and a few voice chats. In a couple of cases conversation has moved towards 'what we want from relationships' and I've made damn sure to get across that sex is really important to me because I don't want to go any further with someone who's capable of saying 'well yeah, it's fun in the early days, I guess'.

 

Unless I'm superhumanly careful (and I've made a living out of my verbal communication for thirty years so I'm pretty good at it), most sexual women hear 'The only possible reason to raise this so early is I am total horndog who wants to do nothing but use you for my selfish gratification and my ruthless pursuit of this has caused such problems in previous relationships even I have accepted I really have to raise this now'.

 

It's not a good look.

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Telecaster68
5 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

 My additional take was that Sharon’s character was using sexuality to prove to Michael’s character that he was as enslaved to his animal nature as he thought she was

My additional take on Sharon Stone was 'phwwwwoooooarrrrrr'.

 

Therein the difference....

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9 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I know - but most have a least some kind of sex scene or lead up to it. And the point stands: all that will they won't they stuff is a coincidence when all they need to do is to be in the same room at the same time and horny?

If one avoids stories with a big romantic component, there’s a lot less of that.

 

But, yes, to me the will they/won’t they is often “character A is lusting after B.  Will they score or have to go rub one out?”  it’s not about love.

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm back on the market, dating a bit. No sex, yet, but lots of IMs on Tinder, and a few voice chats. In a couple of cases conversation has moved towards 'what we want from relationships' and I've made damn sure to get across that sex is really important to me because I don't want to go any further with someone who's capable of saying 'well yeah, it's fun in the early days, I guess'.

 

Unless I'm superhumanly careful (and I've made a living out of my verbal communication for thirty years so I'm pretty good at it), most sexual women hear 'The only possible reason to raise this so early is I am total horndog who wants to do nothing but use you for my selfish gratification and my ruthless pursuit of this has caused such problems in previous relationships even I have accepted I really have to raise this now'.

That’s bound to happen, but if it’s worth it to avoid your current situation...

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Telecaster68
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

to me the will they/won’t they is often “character A is lusting after B.  Will they score or have to go rub one out?”  it’s not about love.

So to be clear.... Love Actually, Four Weddings, When Harry met Sally, Manhattan, Annie Hall, etc aren't about love to you?

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

My additional take on Sharon Stone was 'phwwwwoooooarrrrrr'.

 

Therein the difference....

Not really; I’m pretty much as not gay as it’s possible to be.

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Telecaster68
Just now, ryn2 said:

That’s bound to happen, but if it’s worth it to avoid your current situation...

No, it's potentially self sabotaging because the listener takes something away from what I'm saying that isn't the case, because they (understandably) assume my last relationship wasn't with an asexual.

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I can have crushes on guys. It's a thing. But they're shallow crushes. Personality-based as opposed to entirely physical, but still. I can't do serious romance with them (it's very cringey, makes me feel awkward as hell), and I can't do sex with them (although some part of me thinks that if I was really into casual stuff, I could check my brain at the door and go through with it almost recreationally; it's if I'm expecting to feel something deep and loving and connected that I feel gross), and I don't want a long-term romantic and sexual relationship with them. But the crush thing, it happens. But isn't it ridiculously cruel for me to start dating a guy because I'm temporarily enamoured of him, knowing I'll rapidly lose interest and won't want him to express deep feelings for me or have a loving sexual relationship with me? I'm an asshole if I don't tell him, "Hey dude, I'm just playing around, this isn't going anywhere." And then he can decide his own actions accordingly. If he's into flirty banter and that's all he wants out of the situation, fine. If he's imagining falling in love and setting up a life together and having passionate sex and quoting romantic poetry to each other, he's hardcore outta luck.

 

If a romantic asexual person wants to date a sexual person, for whom romance and sex will naturally be very intertwined, and this person knows full well that they're ace and can never give their sexual partner a properly fulfilling relationship, but they continue on dating and getting closer emotionally, hiding things or denying or making promises they can't keep or whatever, they're behaving like a self-centred asshole. Why not disclose right at the beginning, "Hey so I'm asexual, and this is what it means for us if you want to date"? Fear of rejection? Maybe. Probably. But it's a fear you have a responsibility to face if you're attempting to be a mature adult. Besides, the asexual will end up miserable too. It's mutually beneficial to disclose very soon.

 

Also -- all of that sounds frustrating, @Telecaster68. Understandable, of course. It's... yeah, I hear you on the "not a good look" thing.

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Just now, Telecaster68 said:

So to be clear.... Love Actually, Four Weddings, When Harry met Sally, Manhattan, Annie Hall, etc aren't about love to you?

I didn’t see Love Actually or Manhattan.  I think I saw Four Weddings but don’t remember it at all.

 

I saw Annie Hall when I was 14.

 

I did see When Harry Met Sally but I remember it more being about missed cues (eventually rectified) than sex.  Even that was a long time ago so I am probably forgetting a lot of detail.

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6 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

No, it's potentially self sabotaging because the listener takes something away from what I'm saying that isn't the case, because they (understandably) assume my last relationship wasn't with an asexual.

It’s probably both.

 

Not a dating site person so maybe this isn’t an option, but can you raise it in context?

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10 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

That’s bound to happen, but if it’s worth it to avoid your current situation...

Just making sure this wasn’t missed.  Only you can decide if it is worth it.

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Wanderlust is actually a pretty good portrayal of sex in a long term relationship. It's very sharp.

 

I did enjoy wanderlust though the initial reason behind  the sexual difficulties was because of  her injuries in a bicycle crash, which I could appreciate as I had my own bicycle crash in July and could identify with the psychological problems from such. For me, that is what I had taken from it, but I am tying it to my own issue.

 

My own accident has made me (more) self conscious when dealing with people.

 

25 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So to be clear.... Love Actually, Four Weddings, When Harry met Sally, Manhattan, Annie Hall, etc aren't about love to you?

I found manhattan  pretty uneasy viewing 

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34 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

No, it's potentially self sabotaging because the listener takes something away from what I'm saying that isn't the case, because they (understandably) assume my last relationship wasn't with an asexual.

Hmmmmm..... might be worth clarifying that, just to put things into perspective.

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48 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

So to be clear.... Love Actually, Four Weddings, When Harry met Sally, Manhattan, Annie Hall, etc aren't about love to you?

I know this was directed at @ryn2, but, in case you wanted to hear from other asexuals, I saw most of these movies (because I hadn't traveled to other countries and was curious about other cultures; where my relatives lived; enjoyed a few British actors' performances in other films, so I wanted to see their work; and/or because I knew that the director of some of those films, Woody Allen, was famous, and I wanted to try to understand why so many people liked his films (even though my relatives didn't like him or his films.)

 

I kind of enjoyed the British films more than the ones made by Woody Allen (not for the romance, but, like I wrote, earlier, due to the comedy; the accents; and being curious about the British culture some of my relatives grew up knowing or being surrounded by), but they're weren't my favorite films of all-time. I watched them once and that was it. I didn't really relate to Woody Allen's jokes in the films; his type of humor just seemed to me as though he was trying too hard to be funny. Also, I grew up mostly around low-income and middle-class POC, so I couldn't relate much to his characters from wealthier backgrounds.

 

Basically, I just thought of these films (about love, like you said) happening to other people in real-life, but not myself, due to knowing that my dysfunctional family background and socio-economic status didn't exactly make me feel emotionally well enough (compared to others from wealthier, emotionally, healthier, loving families) to being in a romantic relationship with another person.

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46 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

most sexual women hear 'The only possible reason to raise this so early is I am total horndog who wants to do nothing but use you for my selfish gratification and my ruthless pursuit of this has caused such problems in previous relationships even I have accepted I really have to raise this now'.

 

It's not a good look.

Yes. Even this woman (who gets it having been there) would assume the worst and not instantly understand that you had been married to an ace as the logical reason for the clarity unless communicated properly.

 

Oh yes, and I have been with an asexual man for 18 years and didn’t know it was a thing/had a name/I wasn’t alone for the first 16 of them. So, even if you prefaced any discussion with that knowledge, many wouldn’t truly understand anyway. 

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Winged Whisperer
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

But it seems many asexuals don't even understand it in an abstract way, even that's all which is needed.

I know you said many and not all, but I sure understood it in the abstract way. But can we take a step back a moment. When you say "even that's all which is needed", for what purpose are you saying this? To avoid hurt and confusion? It didn't help me and my partner, the hurt came like a train. Media representation is super important, and in the case of asexuality, it's extremely lacking. The dynamics of a mixed relationship, even one where the ace doesn't consciously understand themselves will be different than that of an allosexual one.

EDIT: I'll add that I personally not only did understand the "importance" of sex on the abstract level, but I genuinely was interested in sex in various capacities. I tried educating myself about it despite not having sex ed in my country. I love being "sexy" and being around other sexy people. I'm very sex-positive in my politics. I also consumed a lot of media that was to various degrees sexualized and I either had no problems with the sexual content or enjoyed them. It's not quite so black and white.

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24 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

EDIT: I'll add that I personally not only did understand the "importance" of sex on the abstract level, but I genuinely was interested in sex in various capacities. I tried educating myself about it despite not having sex ed in my country. I love being "sexy" and being around other sexy people. I'm very sex-positive in my politics. I also consumed a lot of media that was to various degrees sexualized and I either had no problems with the sexual content or enjoyed them.

Yes to all this,  It’s very hard to distinguish between this and what “everyone else” goes through.

 

I always considered myself more what would on AVEN be considered aromantic sexual but now I’m just more confused than ever.

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45 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Yes. Even this woman (who gets it having been there) would assume the worst and not instantly understand that you had been married to an ace as the logical reason for the clarity unless communicated properly.

I feel like it needs the whole context to be sympathetic and understandable rather than off-putting, but maybe on dating sites there’s no way to go there.

 

I just can’t envision online dating ever working for me, although I know more people in favor than against.

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8 hours ago, James121 said:

Pretty much yes. Why wouldn’t you reveal what may well be an immediate deal breaker? Why would you continue dating them without saying something.

 

This is exactly what some of us sexuals have been complaining about! Stealth mode which then gets excused along the line. 

So if someone walked up to you that you have never met and dont know and said wanna go to dinner sometime... you would immediately, before getting to know even their name, launch into "Sure but you should know ... (insert any potential deal breakers, which is a long list of very personal details)"? 

 

You honestly think you would ever get a date that way? That tirade alone will scare off 90% of people, even if they dont care about the deal breakers... 

 

Or you could go out to dinner, learn each others names and if you can even tolerate each other. And if you end up liking the person at all, then tell them before you continue to date them that you arent seeking a sexual relationship and explain it. 

 

Which is no harm done if you do. There is no investment on the first date. A lot of relationships never make it past the first date. People often are dating others, cause its all casual. And if the person is turned off by whatever, no big deal. 

 

Im not about to answer "want to grab coffee sometime" with "OK. But first you should know these things:

I cant date a smoker, so if you smoke, its a no.

I cant be with someone that does drugs, so thats a no.

To have sex I need my partner to not care if we ever do and be monogamous, but once you dont mind not having sex, I can want you often.

I will never get pregnant. If you need your own kids, its a no. 

I have pets and they are like my kids, if you dont like animals or mind me babying them then its a no.

...etc etc"

 

I didnt even finish but you get my point. Deal breakers on or before the first date isnt expected. Its a very casual no strings getting to know you period. Getting that personal would be such a turn off for .. most people. 

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