ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, James121 said: Does that also work if you were previously convicted of rape? Does it work if you have been given 2 years to live by a doctor? Does this work if the only reason you sit there on the date as a woman is because you had your penis removed and a bunch of other operations to transform you. Does it work if you are actually gay but you are seeking approval from your family by marrying someone from the opposite sex. These are all really different scenarios, though. And MTF trans people are women because they are women, not because they had gender reassignment surgery. When they disclose is about personal safety, not about “right to know” on the part of their dates. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: Hmmm. And yet, many asexuals complain about how society is oversexualised. I've never understood how these two things can co-exist. I can’t speak for the UK but here in the US the fact that something is omnipresent and “marketed to death” doesn’t speak at all to how truly important it is to individuals. Sometimes it’s just an eyeroller to everyone, or preying on people who are insecure, pandering to immaturity, etc. Like, if you listened to the media you would think any woman who is not a young, buxom blonde should just give up. In reality, people who love women have a wide range of preferences. Many women still complain about the portrayal, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ryn2 said: I can’t speak for the UK but here in the US the fact that something is omnipresent and “marketed to death” doesn’t speak at all to how truly important it is to individuals. Sometimes it’s just an eyeroller to everyone, or preying on people who are insecure, pandering to immaturity, etc. Like, if you listened to the media you would think any woman who is not a young, buxom blonde should just give up. In reality, people who love women have a wide range of preferences. Many women still complain about the portrayal, though. You must've seen the huge number of posts from asexuals with huge misconceptions because they do believe the media representations though. There's a certain amount of wanting to have cake and eat it going on here. Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: Hmmm. And yet, many asexuals complain about how society is oversexualised. I've never understood how these two things can co-exist. Society being sexualized can be completely consistent with what ryn said. Society is sexualized therefore people are both exposed a lot to sexualized imagery and content, and also socially taught to like it. At the same time, honest, frank and intricate conversations and education is lacking concerning sexuality. That's how asexuals can mistake the importance of sex for allosexuals. We see it a lot so we think yeah this is normal, while at the same time never being sat down to be taught specifically what that significance is. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I certainly don’t think it’s wrong for people to disclose things. I just don’t think that - if something is important to you - it’s wise to rely on that rather than taking the onus upon yourself. Children are a showstopper for me. I’m not going to rely on a potential partner sharing their viewpoints and parental status; I ask. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Winged Whisperer said: We see it a lot so we think yeah this is normal, while at the same time never being sat down to be taught specifically what that significance is. But you do grasp that it is important, so how can it be a surprise that it's an issue in relationships? Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, ryn2 said: These are all really different scenarios, though. And MTF trans people are women because they are women, not because they had gender reassignment surgery. When they disclose is about personal safety, not about “right to know” on the part of their dates. If I was to date a woman who used to be a man......I have a right to know! Before it got anywhere near potentially a sexual relationship I absolutely have every right to know. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: You must've seen the huge number of posts from asexuals with huge misconceptions because they do believe the media representations though. There's a certain amount of wanting to have cake and eat it going on here. I’ve seen plenty of misconceptions from sexuals, too, and sexuals (again, here in the US) who don’t care for media-portrayed sexuality and even find it highly offensive. I haven’t seen a correlation between comfort level with sex in media and personal interest in having partnered sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: But you do grasp that it is important, so how can it be a surprise that it's an issue in relationships? That's twisting it. Asexuals can see that sex is prevalent, they might not necessarily realize the importance. That prevalence can create false expectations in them, that sex is a normal thing to have and participate in. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ryn2 said: I’ve seen plenty of misconceptions from sexuals, too, and sexuals (again, here in the US) who don’t care for media-portrayed sexuality and even find it highly offensive. I haven’t seen a correlation between comfort level with sex in media and personal interest in having partnered sex. But not misconceptions over the basic concept that sex is an important thing in relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: But you do grasp that it is important, so how can it be a surprise that it's an issue in relationships? Again, there’s a lot our society is collectively obsessed with that doesn’t reflect actual individual preferences and importance at all. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Telecaster68 said: But not misconceptions over the basic concept that sex is an important thing in relationships. The basic concept of oversexualization in US society is “sex is constantly on everyone’s mind.” It has nothing to do with the importance of sex in relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It's amazing. Asexuals can apparently find there's too much sex in the media but not grasp that this means most people find it important in a relationship. Honestly, how? Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: But not misconceptions over the basic concept that sex is an important thing in relationships. I honestly did have that misconception though! Because that importance wasn't really ever captured in media representation. It was just always present. A thing the two leads now do after they bond, or randomly because sex is cool (eg. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). The significance of its absence is never shown. Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Telecaster68 said: It's amazing. Asexuals can apparently find there's too much sex in the media but not grasp that this means most people find it important in a relationship. Honestly, how? It’s not possible to say that there is sex everywhere but I didn’t realise it was significant. Its not ethical not to disclose that you don’t like or won’t have sex when dating and just leave it to the prospective partner to discover down the road. This is a very simple moral compass issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: It's amazing. Asexuals can apparently find there's too much sex in the media but not grasp that this means most people find it important in a relationship. Honestly, how? Because as I said, its absence is never shown. We've never seen the individual who's hurting in a relationship because of a loss of sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said: It was just always present. A thing the two leads now do after they bond, Did those two factors not lead you to any conclusion? Link to post Share on other sites
Ceebs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: It's amazing. Asexuals can apparently find there's too much sex in the media but not grasp that this means most people find it important in a relationship. Honestly, how? I assume they think that the media is where the obsession with sex originates and that it's not actually that big of a deal to people, not that it's something that they run with because of its genuine importance to most humans. Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Telecaster68 said: Did those two factors not lead you to any conclusion? Sex is usually done between 2 individuals who are into each other? Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said: I honestly did have that misconception though! Because that importance wasn't really ever captured in media representation. It was just always present. A thing the two leads now do after they bond, or randomly because sex is cool (eg. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). The significance of its absence is never shown. Agreed. The US media portrayal of sex, money, etc., is about individual power, not about healthy relationships. Also, some US people (of all orientations) think sex is something private and don’t like having it shoved in their faces. Normally when someone complains about the oversexualization of US society that js what they are complaining about. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Winged Whisperer said: Sex is usually done between 2 individuals who are into each other? What about how it's always part of the relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ceebs. said: I assume they think that the media is where the obsession with sex originates and that it's not actually that big of a deal to people, not that it's something that they run with because of its genuine importance to most humans. I guess if you assume the media come up with random stuff that nobody cares about, in order to brainwash people about it for some reason, that would make sense. Do they also think parents only care about children because of The Wonder Years, too? Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Telecaster68 said: What about how it's always part of the relationship? Our media doesn’t focus on sex in relationships so much as it does on the importance of being sexy. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Telecaster68 said: I guess if you assume the media come up with random stuff that nobody cares about, in order to brainwash people about it for some reason, that would make sense. Well, that is how (with good reason) a lot of US folks view our media. It’s a demand generator aimed at getting us to think we need (to buy) things, Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, ryn2 said: Our media doesn’t focus on sex in relationships so much as it does on the importance of being sexy. Sex is always involving two people, and it's a dramatic trope in sealing a relationship. It's ludicrous to claim sex is portrayed as something separate to relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
Ceebs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Telecaster68 said: I guess if you assume the media come up with random stuff that nobody cares about, in order to brainwash people about it for some reason, that would make sense. Honestly I've seen that opinion posited enough on AVEN, nonsensical as it may be if you think about it in any depth, that it does indeed seem to be what some assume. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, ryn2 said: Well, that is how (with good reason) a lot of US folks view our media. It’s a demand generator aimed at getting us to think we need (to buy) things, What is portraying sex as part of relationships getting you to buy? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Just now, Ceebs. said: Honestly I've seen that opinion posited enough on AVEN, nonsensical as it may be if you think about it in any depth, that it does indeed seem to be what some assume. I've seen it too. Do AVEN posters think that's the case with things other than sex? Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Whisperer Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: What about how it's always part of the relationship? I don't know what you're trying to get at, but at best it shows that sex is part of a relationship. It's not shown to be vital or critical. It's not shown what happens if it's not there. It's not shown to be part of love, but something that occurs alongside love. Link to post Share on other sites
Ceebs Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: What is portraying sex as part of relationships getting you to buy? It's not so much the portrayal of relationships I don't think, it's the playing off basic human sexual instinct. More akin to casual sex than loving relationship sex. So they don't get that it is important to relationships. 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: I've seen it too. Do AVEN posters think that's the case with things other than sex? Probably. AVEN is full of individuals with mysterious theories about human nature. *coughcoughmreidcoughcough* Link to post Share on other sites
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