Telecaster68 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, anisotropic said: Maybe I should have said QALYs, anyway, time is short so here's a Wikipedia link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-adjusted_life_year#Weighting Oh, yep, didn't get the acronym: I know the rough gist of quality adjusted life years. Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Philip027 said: So for someone that actually wants to maintain any of their relationships, you can kinda see how telling them "you're under no obligation to say yes" feels like empty words that mean nothing, right? Which makes me question why you even brought them up. I think that’s where being open from the outset is helpful. Fair enough an asexual may not know they are asexual before committing fully to the relationship but at least have a discussion that starts along the lines of ”I need to tell you something. I really really don’t enjoy or have a desire for sex. Everyone tells me it will get better but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better or easier. So...before we get married........” Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, James121 said: ”I need to tell you something. I really really don’t enjoy it have a desire for sex. Everyone tells me it will get better but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better or easier. So...before we get married........” Normally it’s *in* the relationship where it’s a problem that the futile advice-seeking happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Quote I think that’s where being open from the outset is helpful. Fair enough an asexual may not know they are asexual before committing fully to the relationship but at least have a discussion that starts along the lines of ”I need to tell you something. I really really don’t enjoy or have a desire for sex. Everyone tells me it will get better but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better or easier. So...before we get married........” Would be nice, but you've also got the "waiting until marriage" crowd which doesn't really help in realizing sexual incompatibilities beforehand, and that's a crowd that both aces and sexuals can be in... Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Yeah, ideally, there should be a very clear discussion about sex being important early on, and from now on, I'm definitely instigating that conversation in relationships and anything short of real incredulity from my partner that anyone could not be very bothered about sex is going to be an immediate dealbreaker. Thing is, unless you get very specific and clear about it, most people will say they like sex, because they do. What they won't say is 'I really enjoy it, but I can take or leave it' because it's a very strange stance on something. It's what asexuals' position would be during NRE though. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 In as in “during the timeframe of,” not in as in “it’s the partner I ask.” Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: Yeah, ideally, there should be a very clear discussion about sex being important early on, and from now on, I'm definitely instigating that conversation in relationships and anything short of real incredulity from my partner that anyone could not be very bothered about sex is going to be an immediate dealbreaker. Agreed. Once people have experience with the impact of lacking sexual chemistry they are a lot better-equipped to avoid it going forward. Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I agree with @Philip027 and it's super insulting to say that asexuals "haven't put as much work in their community" as gay people. How is a single asexual person not connected in any way to a wider asexual community supposed to increase asexual visibility? As I already said, for most asexuals the idea of being in a relationship with a fellow asexual is ideal but, unlike what people who aren't asexual may think, it's actually is really hard to meet other asexuals. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 hours ago, James121 said: I haven’t applied any such fault. I have reminded people that the asexual (assuming having sex is so so emotionally destroying as you all seem to suggest) can also choose to leave. I raise the point that isn’t it funny that you never tend to hear that scenario unfolding. Again, people of all orientations leave relationships when the bad consistently outweighs the good. Where it doesn’t/hasn’t yet, people stay. 2 hours ago, James121 said: I do believe that a spouse be that husband or wife owes their partner effort! What does applying effort towards trying to desire someone and be attracted to them when you’re... not... look like? Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, Philip027 said: "waiting until marriage" This is one of the worst things a couple can do but thankfully it’s largely outdated and quite rare these days. Does an asexual on discover the lack of interest when they try sex though? Surely the very thought of it is unappealing in which case the conversation could still take place. Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, ryn2 said: Again, people of all orientations leave relationships when the bad consistently outweighs the good. Where it doesn’t/hasn’t yet, people stay. What does applying effort towards trying to desire someone and be attracted to them when you’re... not... look like? It looks like the asexual/low libido partner having a discussion about the maximum they can offer is and the sexual person contributing with what the lowest they can agree to is and finding some common ground to both commit to. Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 6:57 PM, James121 said: Does an asexual on discover the lack of interest when they try sex though? Surely the very thought of it is unappealing in which case the conversation could still take place. Back when I didn't know what asexuality was yes, I was put off by the thought of sex but I figured (and everyone kept saying this to me) that I was just scared or something, once I actually tried it I would definitely like it! That's what I was told. Then I learned about asexuality and decided that I didn't need to have sex in order to know I didn't want it. Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Light02 said: Back when I didn't know what asexuality was yes, I was put off by the thought of sex but I figured (and everyone kept saying this me) that I was just scared or something, once I actually tried it I would definitely like it! That's what I was told. Then I learned about asexuality and decided that I didn't need to have sex in order to know I didn't want it. Is that a discussion that you would have been brave enough to have with a fiancé though (assuming you were waiting until you were married to try sex). Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Leviathan123 said: Telecaster you need to grow up. I think he may have been joking. Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, Leviathan123 said: @Telecaster68 Sitting down with a woman and saying you expect sex from the relationship implies you've been left dry by some woman before. Internally she will laugh at you. I’m missing something. Why would that cause someone to laugh? Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Light02, it's super true to say that asexuals haven't put as much work into their community as gay people have. What is super insulting is being all jealous of the results of the work gay people have done without acknowledging the work. Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, James121 said: Is that a discussion that you would have been brave enough to have with a fiancé though (assuming you were waiting until you were married to try sex). I honestly don't know. I always just assumed that sex happens as a natural progression (natural for others, not for me, though) to being intimate with your partner, like kissing them and then things get heated and you have sex. And I thought that once I got into that kind of situation I would finally want it. But if me and this hypothetical fiancé were just casually talking about sex I would probably mention how I've always found the idea gross. I guess you're suggesting that aces, even if they haven't yet figured out they're asexual should discuss this lack of sexual desire with their partner before marriage. The thing is, in this hypothetical scenario, if I was entering a marriage while not knowing that I'm ace I wouldn't have hidden my lack of desire, I just wouldn't have thought of it as something that's important that needs to be discussed, I would have thought that it would soon be fixed. But, as I said, if we'd talked about it prior to trying it I would have been honest about my feelings. Honestly, I think in that case my hypothetical partner would have dismissed me saying this, thinking, just like everyone else, that it's nothing serious and would have probably reassured me that I'm just scared and I would have listened to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said: Light02, it's super true to say that asexuals haven't put as much work into their community as gay people have. What is super insulting is being all jealous of the results of the work gay people have done without acknowledging the work. Do you even know how much work asexuals have done to build this community? I'm just saying no one single person can do much on their own. Furthermore, the gay community has existed since around the 60s, the asexual community was established in the early 2000s. Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If you are the only asexual you know, you can increase visibility tremendously if you choose to. If you choose to come out to all your family, friends, and coworkers, that's a lot of people who know about asexuality who didn't before. In which case I would happily congratulate you on the work you did to increase visibility. If you don't want to do that, and you don't want to find or start a local asexual group, or put time or work into building the asexual community in any other way, you don't have to. But in that case, when people accurately point out that you aren't putting work into your community, just agree with them instead of getting mad. Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 And, to be clear, pursuing mixed orientation relationships with sexuals who aren't giving informed consent from day one is not an acceptable alternative to doing whatever work may be necessary to date within your orientation. Link to post Share on other sites
Light02 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said: If you are the only asexual you know, you can increase visibility tremendously if you choose to. If you choose to come out to all your family, friends, and coworkers, that's a lot of people who know about asexuality who didn't before. In which case I would happily congratulate you on the work you did to increase visibility. If you don't want to do that, and you don't want to find or start a local asexual group, or put time or work into building the asexual community in any other way, you don't have to. But in that case, when people accurately point out that you aren't putting work into your community, just agree with them instead of getting mad. Personally, I am out to most people in my life but coming out is actually hard and scary, I've had lots of bad reactions that have really put me off of being open to everyone unless I know them really well. It's not that easy to be out. 6 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said: And, to be clear, pursuing mixed orientation relationships with sexuals who aren't giving informed consent from day one is not an acceptable alternative to doing whatever work may be necessary to date within your orientation. Yeah, I've never advocated for the opposite, if I'm getting into a relationship with someone I'd tell them I'm ace. Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Okay, we're good then, Light02. The reason I got confused is because you are siding with people who use the challenges of dating within the asexual community as an excuse for dating sexuals while coming out as late as they feel like, or even never if the sexual doesn't know enough to straight up ask them if they are asexual. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, James121 said: This is one of the worst things a couple can do but thankfully it’s largely outdated and quite rare these days. It’s actually on the rise in some US areas again. Not saying I’m in favor or it, just that it’s another cultural difference. Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 55 minutes ago, ryn2 said: It’s actually on the rise in some US areas again. Not saying I’m in favor or it, just that it’s another cultural difference. I just don’t understand what advantages there are in not descovering whether you’re compatible before marriage. Just madness. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 God doesn't get cross with you. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, James121 said: I just don’t understand what advantages there are in not descovering whether you’re compatible before marriage. Just madness. I don’t think that’s *why* it’s promoted. As others have said the origin is in religious tradition that sees chastity as a virtue and still pushes “virgin brides.” Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 hours ago, James121 said: A sexual person who is not having sex is one of 3 things. 1) cheating 2) planning to leave 3) unhappy Why do you think he doesn’t talk about it? He’s attempting to bury it but no way is he happy. James, you said this to me. Don't tell members what their partners are thinking, and don't tell us what their relationships are like. That's just vile, and in this case inappropriate for so many reasons that I don't feel like I have to talk about.. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 hours ago, ryn2 said: It’s illegal in some form in most US areas too... but the problem is the number of people who think it shouldn’t be. Incorrect. It is illegal in 20 states, not even half. Many cities have their own laws within the states. And Trump recently removed title IX protection (largely) for many gender and sexual minorities.. so that hurt schools a lot as it was the main protection in schools... And housing laws are harder to find protection for, so even when you find protection from firing, you still often can be legally evicted for it. So yeah. As someone who is hiding the truth of her relationship and cant even go on honest dates with her wife in public cause being non-het cis is a "we dont think you should be working with kids" level offense in her state... even forcing a trans teacher to make a public apology for asking the kids to use their pronoun (Ms/Mr etc in title )cause it didnt match birth sex...our legal protections leave a lot to be desired. I tell my coworkers I have a husband. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hurrah for the land of the free! Link to post Share on other sites
James121 Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 34 minutes ago, Sally said: James, you said this to me. Don't tell members what their partners are thinking, and don't tell us what their relationships are like. That's just vile, and in this case inappropriate for so many reasons that I don't feel like I have to talk about.. Ok I’ll change it. 1) cheating 2) planning to leave 3) unhappy 4) lying to you Link to post Share on other sites
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