James121

Would you leave

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James121

To fellow sexuals.

 

If sex were completely removed from the table by your spouse, for good, would you either:

 

A) Leave the marriage 

B) Cheat 

C) Stay and suffer it

 

for the record I would be C...until I couldn’t stand it any longer then I would be B....until I got caught and then I would be A

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

Lack of sex wouldn't necessarily cause me to become miserable, but these days I refuse to remain in any relationship that I'm suffering in. If 'suffering' is the price one has to pay with someone then it's not a price I'm willing to pay and as far as I'm concerned, it would be unfair on my partner too for me to stick around even though they make me miserable through something they cannot change.

 

Life's too short for that shit as far as I am concerned. I'm not a martyr. I'd rather be happy. :) 

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James121
7 minutes ago, Ficto. said:

Lack of sex wouldn't necessarily cause me to become miserable, but these days I refuse to remain in any relationship that I'm suffering in. If 'suffering' is the price one has to pay with someone then it's not a price I'm willing to fear and as far as I'm concerned, it would be unfair on my partner too for me to stick around even though they make me miserable through something they cannot change.

 

Life's too short for that shit as far as I am concerned. I'm not a martyr. I'd rather be happy. :) 

No chance that you and I can B) then 🤭.

 

Seriously though, nice answer!

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Traveler40
50 minutes ago, James121 said:

A) Leave the marriage 

B) Cheat 

C) Stay and suffer it

Why not communicate to compromise and add more options?  Opening a marriage can be viable and far easier/better/more palatable than cheating.  I openly call my lover from the “marital bed” whenever I want to as our connection need not be hidden....🤷🏻‍♀️

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anisotropic

It wouldn't be cheating?

 

It would be...  time/energy I probably can't spare? and disappointing to no longer have this with my partner.

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James121
2 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Why not communicate to compromise and add more options?  Opening a marriage can be viable and far easier/better/more palatable than cheating.  I openly call my lover from the “marital bed” whenever I want to as our connection need not be hidden....🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t honestly believe anyone can be ok with an open marriage for the most part. They may say they are but the chances are that they are not. 

For me the chances of someone being genuinely ok with an open marriage are similar to someone who has a sex drive that in an ideal world would have them shagging 3 times a week, having sex 3 times a year.

Cheating gets such a bad press because of the deception involved but isn’t it funny that often the motivation for keeping it hidden is actually to avoid upset!

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Traveler40
14 minutes ago, James121 said:

isn’t it funny that often the motivation for keeping it hidden is actually to avoid upset!

Generally, I believe a spouse knows.  You’re not really avoiding anything other than the tougher conversations.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
On 1/4/2019 at 4:05 PM, James121 said:

No chance that you and I can B) then 🤭.

 

Seriously though, nice answer!

Hah well I'm not in a relationship currently but I'd never choose option B under any circumstances (and wouldn't ever get with someone else choosing option B) only because I see cheating like theft, quite literally. You're taking something that belongs to another person (your relationship intimacy) and giving it to someone else and that just makes me so incredibly uncomfortable. Even if your partner is not using that thing which belongs to them, it still shouldn't be given to others without your partner's full and willing consent.

 

So like, imagine your girlfriend has this dildo but she never uses it. That doesn't actually make it okay for you to loan it out to other people then slip it back into her draw. That's you stealing her property, allowing other people to use it, then sneakily putting it back. I just.. *shudder* ..I don't know, it makes me so uncomfortable lol. That's what option B entails for me. 

 

On 1/4/2019 at 4:12 PM, James121 said:

I don’t honestly believe anyone can be ok with an open marriage for the most part. They may say they are but the chances are that they are not. 

I think it depends. If you're using it to try to fix a relationship that isn't working then heck no, that'll fail!! But I've actually personally met people in the course of my work in the past who went into the marriage with the prior agreement that they would be having sex with others outside the marriage, inviting third parties into their beds, playing 'wife swap', and visiting brothels together and things :o In these circumstances both people actually seem pretty darned happy (the ones I have met anyway) but that's because they were both already innately open to that and wanted to build a healthy relationship around it, as opposed to trying to use it to fix something that is broken.

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uhtred

I've chosen C, but in most cases I think A is the better choice- if it is made early enough.   Its difficult to end a long marriage. 

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Serran

Im somewhere in the sexual realm but wouldnt fit neatly in any box. I enjoy sexual intimacy with my spouse though and desire it. 

 

If she one day said no more sex, then I would be OK staying. It wouldnt be suffering cause I can just do without. I would probably miss the playfulness and ease that comes with such a relationship, but it wouldnt be giving up too much. 

 

I would never cheat. That is a huge betrayal and a lot of dishonesty, two things im not into. Why would I hurt my partner like that? If I ever became too upset, I would just leave. 

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nanogretchen4

I'm demisexual and I handle celibacy well, so I could probably adapt to life with an asexual spouse better than most sexuals could. However, I would be very angry if my spouse revealed that they were asexual after the wedding. I would have extreme difficulty believing that they hadn't deceived me on purpose and it would be really hard to trust them ever again. Also it would literally make me sick to realize that I had been tricked into having sex with someone who did not want sex and did not desire me sexually. That would be a horrible betrayal. So I would leave unless I knew from the beginning that I was getting into a mixed orientation relationship.

 

Now that I know I am demisexual I would not date anyone I was not already attracted to. So if when I first asked them for a date they told me up front that they were asexual I might still choose to have a relationship with them, and it might actually work out okay. But I really would appreciate some time to process the news and think it over first. I certainly wouldn't be offended if the asexual I fell for bent over backwards to avoid pressuring me or taking advantage of me. Is it possible to be too honorable or too trustworthy? I don't think so. 

 

Under no circumstances would I cheat. If I were unhappy in the marriage I would wait it out for awhile, since I suffer from occasional mild depression and I know most unhappiness is relatively short term. If the unhappiness persisted I would try therapy and if that did not work I would leave.

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anisotropic
5 hours ago, James121 said:

I don’t honestly believe anyone can be ok with an open marriage for the most part.

Agreed that it's unlikely to work if it's a introduced as a solution. I'd probably still try, not cheat.

 

In my case we had an open relationship early on, and both exercised that option, and it was fine. (we stopped because relationships with other people is extra effort, not because it was upsetting.)

 

So... I can't imagine cheating... it's plausible that he'd be the one pushing me out the door to go on a date. Sorry, it might be like... I might not *want* to be in a marriage where I couldn't be open, where option 2 was even a thing? this relationship is a long one, I'm probably having trouble imagining living differently.

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ryn2
8 hours ago, James121 said:

don’t honestly believe anyone can be ok with an open marriage for the most part. They may say they are but the chances are that they are not.

Percentagewise, current US estimates put the number of people practicing polyamory higher than the number that are gay... and some innately poly people are not in poly relationships, so those estimates may be low.  Doesn’t necessarily speak to other countries but in the US at least plenty of people are actually okay with open marriages.

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ryn2
8 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Generally, I believe a spouse knows.  You’re not really avoiding anything other than the tougher conversations.

That last bit is part of the motivation for sure.

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Winged Whisperer
8 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

However, I would be very angry if my spouse revealed that they were asexual after the wedding. I would have extreme difficulty believing that they hadn't deceived me on purpose and it would be really hard to trust them ever again. Also it would literally make me sick to realize that I had been tricked into having sex with someone who did not want sex and did not desire me sexually. That would be a horrible betrayal. So I would leave unless I knew from the beginning that I was getting into a mixed orientation relationship.

This attitude really needs to die out. A lot of heteroromantics realize their asexuality after actually being in a relationship, and sometimes it takes time and self-reflection and introspection to come to the personal understanding of what they are. There are transgender people who transition in their late 20s, some even after getting married. Did they also betray and lie to their loved ones? No that's ridiculous, so why should asexuality be seen as such?

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James121
9 hours ago, Ficto. said:

You're taking something that belongs to another person (your relationship intimacy) and giving it to someone else and that just makes me so incredibly uncomfortable.

I think that’s sometimes the way a sexual person views an asexual or low libido spouse who stops sex completely or nearly completely. If my wife restricts sex to the odd occasion once every 5-8 weeks like she used to, or dare I say if she removed it completely, then she is removing my right to a sex life. That’s as much a theft as anything.

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James121
41 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

Did they also betray and lie to their loved ones? 

The answer is yes in my opinion.

 

if my wife suddenly announces that she’s realised she’d like to be a man I wouldn’t accept any pitiful excuses that she’s only just realised. Those doubts/feelings of confusion would have been there from her teens and certainly well before we met. Whilst it may be an attitude you’d like to see die out, deception is often greeted with anger and resentment.

If an asexual begins a relationship with a person who they rarely have sex with but after the wedding, the purchase of a house, the 2 children,  the sexual person reveals that they actually like sex every day and this is what they expect from now, would this not be a form deception that one would resent?

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Chimeric

D) Stay and definitely not suffer.

 

My partner is my soulmate, he makes me a better person, he challenges me daily, he encourages my independence and my ambition, he has enriched every part of my life that he has touched, and most importantly, he never fails to make me laugh. Obviously we have our struggles (every relationship does), and sex is one of them, but I would suffer far more without him than I would without sex.

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ryn2
49 minutes ago, James121 said:

Those doubts/feelings of confusion would have been there from her teens and certainly well before we met.

Since you are not someone in that situation, why do you think you know what it’s like better than someone who IS in it would?

 

That’s like me (AFAB) telling you I know better than you do what it’s like to be male.

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ryn2
52 minutes ago, James121 said:

If an asexual begins a relationship with a person who they rarely have sex with but after the wedding, the purchase of a house, the 2 children,  the sexual person reveals that they actually like sex every day and this is what they expect from now, would this not be a form deception that one would resent?

If the sexual person knew it all along, also knew their ace partner felt differently, and intentionally kept it a secret/lied about it until they deemed it “too late to back out now” and then announced it, sure... because the person lied.

 

If they didn’t realise how often they needed sex until they’d gone mostly without it for a while, or something else affected their libido, that’s unfortunate and sad (and potentially frustrating) but it’s not deception.

 

Likewise, if they were used to having more sex but genuinely thought they would be okay with less... and then discovered they weren’t... that’s not deception.  It’s something they ideally would have talked about, but it’s not deception.

 

The relationship still might not work out but the reasons aren’t the same.

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anisotropic

Oh, how funny, I live both sides of this.

 

1 hour ago, Winged Whisperer said:

This attitude really needs to die out. A lot of heteroromantics realize their asexuality after actually being in a relationship, and sometimes it takes time and self-reflection and introspection to come to the personal understanding of what they are. There are transgender people who transition in their late 20s, some even after getting married. Did they also betray and lie to their loved ones? No that's ridiculous, so why should asexuality be seen as such?

Agreed.

 

If I am transitioning, it's at the cusp of 40, gradual, and married for well over a decade. I'm not very dysphoric, I suspect I would have stayed female with a less supportive partner. But he's been wonderful, starting with helping shop for men's clothes for the first time, years ago.

 

1 hour ago, James121 said:

if my wife suddenly announces that she’s realised she’d like to be a man I wouldn’t accept any pitiful excuses that she’s only just realised. Those doubts/feelings of confusiowould have been there from her teens and certainly well before we met.

It was not sudden. But neither was it always there. Nonconformism was, but doubts started 5-6 years ago. I shared them as I had them.

 

My partner's asexuality was also known in a sense, we knew he didn't seem to want it -- yes -- but we always thought it was situational, stress or whatnot, not understanding it could be a permanent thing, an orientation.

 

At no point did we conceal from each other. I think I felt betrayed by circumstances -- angry we didn't know about asexuality before -- but he certainly didn't intend to mislead. Nor did I, with my gender.

 

This is, btw, why I selected this username: the properties of this depend on the direction it is examined. My partner's orientation is a blessing when viewed from the perspective of my desire to change gender.

 

28 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

 

D) Stay and definitely not suffer.

 

 

Yes, that one.

 

I went through a process of despair, and grief, and anger, and adapting. I changed myself, we changed our pattern, we communicated. I'm happy, I no longer suffer like I did before we understood it.

 

When people lay out adversarial options and zero sum games, or speak in terms of deception and betrayal, I can only say: that's not us, that is not my marriage.

 

I will also freely admit that this only works because we are doing it together.

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nanogretchen4

Winged Whisperer, I don't think my expectation that my partner will be honest with me about their sexual orientation from the beginning needs to die out. Honesty, self awareness, and communication are absolute necessities for me in a partner.

 

The asexual community still seems to be all about mixed orientation relationships. Some posters on AVEN get very angry if anyone suggests that they should date within their orientation. But at any given time on AVEN you can find young out asexuals looking for advice on how get together with their sexual crush who either doesn't know that they are asexual or doesn't seem to have a clue what that means. Posters give them strategy tips  and assure them everything will be great and pretty much never tell them to keep looking until they find another asexual. At any given time you will also find posters who know they are asexual and have already started a mixed orientation relationship without coming out, and are asking for strategy tips, and usually they get them. And also at any given time on AVEN you can find posts from married people who have just learned about the word asexual but have known for many years that they didn't want sex and never saw any need to communicate with their spouse about their feelings. Now they are asking for strategy tips to stop having sex yet hang on to the spouse, and they still haven't come out to the spouse. 

 

AVEN generally takes the stance that asexuals are sparkly pure innocent angels who don't have the same responsibility for their actions as all other adults. All other humans have goals and take actions to try to accomplish those goals, and can then be held responsible for those actions. Asexuals want to be in mixed relationships, and they somehow always seem to end up in mixed relationships, but all the actions that resulted in the accomplishment of their goal are "accidents". Nope. Not buying it. 

 

I would be a lot more sympathetic if my partner came out as trans. In the first place, that wouldn't be about my partner's feelings for me, so it wouldn't mean the relationship was built on a lie. In the second place, trans people don't have any obvious motive to get into relationships based on the gender they were assigned at birth and transition afterwards. So yeah, I would believe the partner who came out as trans and be extremely skeptical of the partner who came out as asexual.

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GoneForGood

If you do not know something, it is not lying to not reveal it.

 

by example. I am intolerant of wheat and nightshades. I never told anyone that I was in a relationship with about this because I did not find out myself what was making me so sick until I was in my 50s. I HAVE told my current fiance.

 

same thing with my asexuality. I was pressured to do things I did not really want to do my whole life. Only in the past 5 years or so have I come to understand that I am not "normally" sexual and only within the past year have I come to understand and accept that I am asexual. I lied to NOONE about it, I did not know the answer.

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Winged Whisperer
35 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

At no point did we conceal from each other. I think I felt betrayed by circumstances -- angry we didn't know about asexuality before -- but he certainly didn't intend to mislead. Nor did I, with my gender.

This right here so much. How can people be so oblivious to the fact that we don't know ourselves perfectly, no one does. How can we? Even sudden revelations can happen about one's self. We're mammals evolved through billions of year, not omniscient robots that have their knowledge in absolutes.

 

13 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

AVEN generally takes the stance that asexuals are sparkly pure innocent angels who don't have the same responsibility for their actions as all other adults. All other humans have goals and take actions to try to accomplish those goals, and can then be held responsible for those actions. Asexuals want to be in mixed relationships, and they somehow always seem to end up in mixed relationships, but all the actions that resulted in the accomplishment of their goal are "accidents". Nope. Not buying it.  

 

I would be a lot more sympathetic if my partner came out as trans. In the first place, that wouldn't be about my partner's feelings for me, so it wouldn't mean the relationship was built on a lie. In the second place, trans people don't have any obvious motive to get into relationships based on the gender they were assigned at birth and transition afterwards. So yeah, I would believe the partner who came out as trans and be extremely skeptical of the partner who came out as asexual. 

Oh please piss off. Nothing about my relationship was an "accident". Yes, asexuals are not pure innocent angels, we're all human. Asexuals can be deceptive about any number of things as can any other human being. A general lack of awareness and education will make self-discovery in this regard extremely difficult, especially since social learning converges towards sexual behavior as what is normal. You're told from a young age that men and women have sex, your friends all like it and talk about it, you watch movies and read books and there's always this act of sex. Gosh, I wonder what effects that could have on an asexual's expectations. Deceiving has meaning, it means to trick someone and fool them away from a truth you know. When you don't consciously know you're asexual, because of all that social context and lack of awareness, you very well can end up in a relationship and even get married without knowing about yourself. That's not deception, that's self-discovery, and if you think otherwise, you seriously need to look at your moral compass.

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ryn2
7 minutes ago, Winged Whisperer said:

A general lack of awareness and education will make self-discovery in this regard extremely difficult, especially since social learning converges towards sexual behavior as what is normal. You're told from a young age that men and women have sex, your friends all like it and talk about it, you watch movies and read books and there's always this act of sex.

This, and it’s always hard to gauge others’ experiences from their behavior.  If I try something other people rave about and to me it’s just okay, that doesn’t unto itself send up any big red flags.  I’m not very effusive, and I’ve watched people force themselves (and others) to fit in all my life, so unless I *hated* something the lack of rockets and confetti would make me more likely to assume others were exaggerating than worry that I was missing out in a big way.

 

Clearly some people know themselves very well from a very young age.  Some don’t.  That’s nothing dishonest.

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nanogretchen4

These days more and more asexuals are aware of their orientation, and yet it doesn't seem to make any difference in their dating behavior. When gay people realize they are gay they tend to find a gay community, come out, and look for other gay people to date. When asexuals realize they are asexual they remain closeted, heap scorn on the very idea of finding or creating an in person community, and look for sexuals to date. As more and more asexuals realize that they are asexual yet continue to look for mixed relationships, and discuss their strategies on a forum accessible to the general public, asexuals become less and less likely to receive the benefit of the doubt.

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Neutral Charge
20 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

These days more and more asexuals are aware of their orientation, and yet it doesn't seem to make any difference in their dating behavior. When gay people realize they are gay they tend to find a gay community, come out, and look for other gay people to date. When asexuals realize they are asexual they remain closeted, heap scorn on the very idea of finding or creating an in person community, and look for sexuals to date. As more and more asexuals realize that they are asexual yet continue to look for mixed relationships, and discuss their strategies on a forum accessible to the general public, asexuals become less and less likely to receive the benefit of the doubt.

Its not like anyone goes and aims to get a sexual person to be in a relation, most of the sexual people i personally know dont aim to date for sex but cause they like the person ( their mind and their appearance / personality). it  happens that the sexual is looking for the relation as well without understanding what it means, or for us to get into a relation without knowing who we are, its  happens.

 

in relations there is  a double sided road, its not mandatory or forced and  people willingly go into it. just cause we exist and are open to  compromise for the sake of a relation with a sexual that doesn't mean we aim for it with the sole reason to make demands or make our partner suffer and we  dont make  plans on how to manipulate the whole thing, 

 

or are you saying that asexuals shouldn't date at all cause they dont enjoy sex? or only look for asexual to date? you cant command who you like and who you fall for, and its our duty to try and talk and make it work if we want it,  rather then loath in self pity.

 

As for liars and deceivers, those exist in every sexual orientation, at least you know that an asexual didn't do it just to get you in his/her bed but out of not knowing or fear of loneliness which is much better then other reasons ppl lie and deceive for ( money, comfort and so on).

 

The fault lies with the one who agrees to go in a relation without asking enough questions or trying to actually understand the other person, and that is a personal thing that nobody can blame anyone for no matter their sexual orientation.  My opinion.

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SusannaC

What about the asexuals who may be ashamed of their orientation because they know they are very different from the majority out there?  What about the asexuals who marry because they simply fall in love with the person for a myriad of other reasons than sex, and don’t seem to realize that sex is actually IMPORTANT to the OP?  This seemed to be the situation with my husband.... the problem seems more complicated that JUST deception on the part of the asexual, but I agree it is ultimately a very painful realization to make and often comes too late in most relationships.

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Winged Whisperer
4 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

These days more and more asexuals are aware of their orientation, and yet it doesn't seem to make any difference in their dating behavior. When gay people realize they are gay they tend to find a gay community, come out, and look for other gay people to date. When asexuals realize they are asexual they remain closeted, heap scorn on the very idea of finding or creating an in person community, and look for sexuals to date. As more and more asexuals realize that they are asexual yet continue to look for mixed relationships, and discuss their strategies on a forum accessible to the general public, asexuals become less and less likely to receive the benefit of the doubt.

Besides being based on your own anecdotes, that's one of the worst non-sequiturs and nonsensical things I've seen in quite some time. Asexuals go for mixed relationships therefore... asexuals who come out after they are in a relationship shouldn't be believed or were deceptive? WTF?!

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nanogretchen4

The fact is, I am not willing to have a mixed orientation relationship unless both me and my partner give informed consent to a mixed orientation relationship from the very beginning. I have a right to decide whether or not I want to embark on a mixed relationship. If I find out late in the game that I am already in a mixed relationship I didn't give informed consent to, I will end the relationship, as is my absolute right. It is valid to feel whatever emotions I would feel in that terrible situation. I'm not obligated to be in a mixed orientation relationship. I am not obligated to be okay with a partner's much too late revelation of an incompatible orientation. I am not obligated to believe whatever excuses they give.

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