James121

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ryn2
7 minutes ago, Ceebs. said:

I would assume that perhaps many asexuals aren't aware of the disconnect immediately precisely because sexual connection isn't innate to them in the first place and they don't spend much time thinking about it.

This, and NRE, and also not all sexuals (think of serran’s now-infamous blanket ex, but there are plenty of milder cases out there) are looking to connect emotionally through sex beyond “whew, that was a good screw.”  In the latter case it doesn’t start to show up as an issue until NRE wears off and the ace partner can’t sustain the pace, by which point any other personality conflicts are probably starting to grate as well.

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Skullery Maid

There may be basic personality traits at play too... Are you the type of person who assumes what you feel is common, or are you the type of person who assumes what you feel is weird? When you're talking about purely subjective experiences, how do you know if "love" to you is the same as other people, or if "I enjoy sex" means the same thing to you as to others. 

 

It's like comparing your color green to mine. You can't. 

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ryn2
24 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

There may be basic personality traits at play too... Are you the type of person who assumes what you feel is common, or are you the type of person who assumes what you feel is weird? When you're talking about purely subjective experiences, how do you know if "love" to you is the same as other people, or if "I enjoy sex" means the same thing to you as to others. 

 

It's like comparing your color green to mine. You can't. 

That’s a really interesting point.  I wonder how the various posters in this thread break down.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
3 hours ago, James121 said:

 @Ceebs. said: "Because he likes creating a big spectacle of his misery instead of doing something about it, it seems."

 

James responded: That’s a little unfair. I could say the same thing about asexuals or gay people when they come out. It just wouldn’t be right to though. People are entitled to opinions and I have mine.

The only accurate comparison to what you're doing here would be if you went into a gay forum and argued with their experience to try to put your victim mentality on as many people as you can. You're not giving an opinion at this point, you're trying to twist everything that everyone else says about their own life experience to make yourself into this utter victim of circumstance. You INSIST that aces are out to intentionally manipulate people because that way, you can stay the victim. It's not an unhappy accident that befell both you and your wife as long as you can keep insisting you were manipulated into the situation you find yourself in.

 

And I do find it funny that you keep claiming other people have a victim mentality when we're only trying to explain our experience. Even those of us like me and @Serran who were taken extreme advantage of sexually by other people for long periods of time. We're still not claiming to be victims, we're just trying to explain our experiences for the purposes of illustration.

 

Yet you're the one going on and on about how you were victimised, how you were tricked into marriage, and how cruel and manipulative asexuals are etc.

 

Have you tried actually reading your own posts to see who the person claiming victimhood here really is?

 

 

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InquisitivePhilosopher
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

...I find it harder to believe asexuals are unaware of a disconnect of some sort, and that they don't notice a pattern. This isn't about sexuality so much as cognition and reflection. 

Well, even doctors and therapists (who, obviously, weren't all asexual) that some asexuals went to in the past, to help their marriage/sexual relationship, weren't able to notice a pattern; so, the professionals thought there were several other possibilities, like possible depression; the medication they were taking, possibly affecting their libido; past trauma, etc.

 

If you read asexuals' stories (on other AVEN forums) about their past, growing up, several of them constantly reflected and wondered about their sexual orientation. But, since some grew up experiencing a health issue; were diagnosed with autism; were born prematurely; grew up in a dysfunctional family; were abused, etc., these things caused them to wonder whether their sexual orientation was affected by these things.

 

It's hurtful to read asexuals portrayed as deceiving or as people who didn't bother to reflect on their sexual orientation, growing up, when many did (and some have been honest to others who wanted to date them about their lack of attraction or interest in sex, right from the beginning.) 

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Winged Whisperer
1 hour ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

Well, even doctors and therapists (who, obviously, weren't all asexual) that some asexuals went to in the past, to help their marriage/sexual relationship, weren't able to notice a pattern; so, the professionals thought there were several other possibilities, like possible depression; the medication they were taking, possibly affecting their libido; past trauma, etc.

It literally took me to say "I think I'm asexual" to my therapist for her to consider it as an option.

 

3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm pretty sure most sexuals experience a relationship with an asexual as a bit 'off' right from the start,

My allosexual wife didn't think anything about me was off. She thought something about her was off (which there was, but nothing related to orientation). Furthermore, she actually never accepted me as an asexual. Even when I came to the realization that I'm probably asexual, for her it was an impossibility, hence why I've tugged this struggle of mine under the rug for now. And with the attitude people like you and James have - which is pretty much the majority of all people - yeah no wonder our existence can get denied so thoroughly.

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Sally
6 hours ago, Ceebs. said:

I would assume that perhaps many asexuals aren't aware of the disconnect immediately precisely because sexual connection isn't innate to them in the first place and they don't spend much time thinking about it. And then they start to become aware of the importance only once their lack of desire begins to cause relationship problems.

Or until their continuing lack of desire causes them to wonder if something is really wrong with them, because what they've been trying to become just isn't working.  And that's something I don't think sexuals understand.  

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CBC
16 minutes ago, Sally said:

Or until their continuing lack of desire causes them to wonder if something is really wrong with them, because what they've been trying to become just isn't working.  And that's something I don't think sexuals understand.  

Yeah, that's something I can relate to, actually. I know very well what it's like trying to become something you're not. Maybe if you just try hard enough... maybe if you just stop thinking about it so much... maybe if you "just get over it, jeez"... maybe if you weren't such a fucked-up person... maybe if you loved someone more... etc. For slightly different reasons in the end, I get that.

 

P.S. I know you're not really into PMs, but check 'em sometime. Even if you ignore all the others but one. :P 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
3 hours ago, Winged Whisperer said:

literally took me to say "I think I'm asexual" to my therapist for her to consider it as an option.

Yep. My doctor told me that what I was experiencing (even the agonising pain which I needed anaesthetic medication for just to be able to walk after sex) was all normal and that I just needed to relax more and that I needed to keep having sex. Pretty the more sex I had the less it would hurt and the better at it I would get, was what he said. That was after I'd already been suffering the pain and lack of sexual enthusiasm for over a year. If even doctors and other professionals can't always pick up that something is wrong, or 'off', how is an average person meant to understand that they're so very different?

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James121
10 hours ago, Ficto. said:

The only accurate comparison to what you're doing here would be if you went into a gay forum and argued with their experience to try to put your victim mentality on as many people as you can. You're not giving an opinion at this point, you're trying to twist everything that everyone else says about their own life experience to make yourself into this utter victim of circumstance. You INSIST that aces are out to intentionally manipulate people because that way, you can stay the victim. It's not an unhappy accident that befell both you and your wife as long as you can keep insisting you were manipulated into the situation you find yourself in.

 

And I do find it funny that you keep claiming other people have a victim mentality when we're only trying to explain our experience. Even those of us like me and @Serran who were taken extreme advantage of sexually by other people for long periods of time. We're still not claiming to be victims, we're just trying to explain our experiences for the purposes of illustration.

 

Yet you're the one going on and on about how you were victimised, how you were tricked into marriage, and how cruel and manipulative asexuals are etc.

 

Have you tried actually reading your own posts to see who the person claiming victimhood here really is?

 

 

Lots of words in bold text there. Several words in italics. It changes nothing. If I went on a gay forum, 90% would fully except they knew from an early age that they were different.

Ive explained my position several times now and I don’t except that I have called anyone a liar.

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James121
12 hours ago, Sally said:

Well, Telecaster believes that sexuals knew that most sexuals knew that asexuals were "pretending" about sex.  So they chose to go along with the relationship regardless.  

 

So I guess both parties were guilty of not being honest.   Because according to your "belief", this is a matter of guilt.

 

 

 

Sorry?? That most sexuals knew that sexuals knew that asexuals knew that sexuals knew that asexuals knew that what?

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CBC

Read it carefully. Makes sense.

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James121
13 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I don’t believe it’s the majority.  I believe there are cases where this is true, but more - probably many more, from the evidence and experiences people give here - cases where the ace (and probably the sexual as well) did not know at the time.

 

 

I think that’s where our opinions are just different. For me I would hazard a guess at 2/3 to 3/4 knew or believed that they viewed sex very differently.

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James121
13 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I don’t think anyone has claimed that *no* asexual in this situation *ever* knew.

 

Some of your (and tele’s) statements and questions above have implied (or said outright) not just this, but that there’s no way *any* ace person could not know.

 

That’s a huge difference.  Like many posters (including me) have said above, yes, some people - including some aces - are jerks.  Others may have made what turned out to be poor choices.  No one is denying that.

 

It’s the extension of this to *all* asexuals, based on how it may well be true of some, that is a problem.

If it’s any consolation, I don’t think that all asexuals knowingly go in to relationships as asexual or suspecting they are different.

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CBC

James, at some point... does hazarding a guess at percentages of people who knew what even matter? It's like you're losing sight of the real issues within your own life, in favour of endlessly arguing stuff that makes no difference.

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James121
14 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Ironically, ”I was bait-and-switched by an ace who masqueraded as sexual and must have known better” actually falls much closer to both categories.

When that happens there genuinely is a victim.

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James121
7 minutes ago, Ceebs. said:

James, at some point... does hazarding a guess at percentages of people who knew what even matter? It's like you're losing sight of the real issues within your own life, in favour of endlessly arguing stuff that makes no difference.

No you are right. Percentages does not matter. I was just trying to give an indication regarding the idea that I do not think that all asexuals blindside people in relationships.

Sometimes numbers are useful to paint a better picture.

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I'm just curious how long we have to go on painting this picture.

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Winged Whisperer
7 minutes ago, James121 said:

No you are right. Percentages does not matter. I was just trying to give an indication regarding the idea that I do not think that all asexuals blindside people in relationships.

Obviously some people figure out their sexuality and orientation before getting into any relationship, while some people will suspect something's wrong or off about them, and some people don't figure out themselves without suspecting anything's wrong well into a relationship. You can lump everyone into those categories and each will have a share and percentage, but like what's the point of eyeballing a guess at those numbers? How are you even going to guess? Unless you're a researcher whose job is to figure these things out and doing mass data gathering, there's no point going down that path.

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Sally
1 hour ago, James121 said:

I think that’s where our opinions are just different. For me I would hazard a guess at 2/3 to 3/4 knew or believed that they viewed sex very differently.

There's no fucking way you could even guess at that.  You're getting way out of your  depth.  

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E

I'm just gonna comment here since I've been quietly listening to things for a bit. While I don't have a complete picture of what the fuss is about, so I figure it's not fair of me to draw concrete conclusions, but the general gist of things here monsieur James is that there's rattled feathers over opinions happening. So, figured I'd drop my two cents.

 

There's immense social pressures these days for people to label themselves I find. And the subject of asexuality is a bit more complicated because of it's origins. It's a hell of a lot easier for somebody young to define if they're gay, lesbian, or bisexual, because the difference is black and white. It's just literally, "I like men = I'm gay."

 

But with asexuality, that's not the case, because you get shit like this.

 

I'm not into sex = low sex drive, not had the right partner, trauma, hormones, age, mental issues, reservations, anxiety, legitimate innate sexuality.

 

An asexual state can be induced by a boatload of other factors. But the problem that arises here is an issue of legitimacy. Somebody who's trying to find out if they're asexual is faced with the issue of discovering the potential origin of their sexuality. Is it simply innate, or was it created through outside influences? The sociatal pressure for people to slap a brand name on themselves these days mixes poorly with the many grey areas that can define asexuality, leading to much doubt in a lot of people trying to understand if they're asexual. Compunded with regular sexual folk often insisting that asexual isn't a thing, and you've got a sexuality that's actually extremely hard to identify and pinpoint because it doesn't have a stable foundation point for many people. Without a stable foundation point, you get doubt and uncertainty.

 

Add to the fact that there's people out there who adopt the label and eventually find that they were previously incorrect in their deductions, or perhaps simply didn't exist in the right parameters to be sexual at the time, and this is a label that's complicated. With so many complications, errors are going to happen quite a bit.

 

Now, although I don't figure it's much within my bounds to talk about your relationship experience while having skimmed through bits and pieces, I'll go ahead and do it anyway because the gist is clear. You got into a relationship and got burned.

 

That's life James. We all get burned. Specially in relationships. We can either choose to hang on to that and let it influence us in a negative fashion, either through our thoughts or actions, or we can simply get up and move along to the best of our ability and discard the past that's behind us while not letting it cloud what's ahead of us. Everybody here is irked a tad, obviously because your opinions supposedly invalidate a lot of people in the thread(I'm only quoting bits of what I've read, I really can't be assed to read through the whole slog to get to the bottom of things right now)

 

If I'm wrong or missing some pieces, feel free to fill me in on what's causing the controversy and I'll be happy to chat with ya. But from what I've read, I think there's error in your opinions.

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ryn2
4 hours ago, James121 said:

When that happens there genuinely is a victim.

There certainly could be.  However, from everything that’s been said, it doesn’t sound like anyone posting here is an actual victim or perpetrator of this scenario so the best we can do in discussing what it might be like to be in either spot is guess.

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CBC

Amen to everything @E  said. There's no point to this post haha, just agreement. But, yup.

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ryn2
2 hours ago, E said:

If I'm wrong or missing some pieces, feel free to fill me in on what's causing the controversy and I'll be happy to chat with ya. But from what I've read, I think there's error in your opinions.

I didn’t see anything significant missed or misstated.

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Skullery Maid
7 hours ago, James121 said:

I think that’s where our opinions are just different. For me I would hazard a guess at 2/3 to 3/4 knew or believed that they viewed sex very differently.

Oh this is fun!! Can I start hazarding "guesses" about you? I'd like to hazard the guess that you're unemployed. 

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10 minutes ago, Skullery Maid said:

Oh this is fun!! Can I start hazarding "guesses" about you? I'd like to hazard the guess that you're unemployed. 

Aw jeez, what a tame guess, Skullz. I was thinking maybe something about... oh I dunno, the size of...

 

Actually nah, I don't think I need to finish that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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Skullery Maid

I was just trying to think of what makes a person take such umbrage with other people merely living their lives... What makes someone feel like asserting knowledge they don't actually have... What makes someone seek out the weakest to pick on? 

 

Feeling worthless. Feeling powerless. Feeling like he can't just go out and make his own success, find his own love, create his own happiness. Rather than see himself as his own victim, it's easier to blame everyone else. 

 

But again, just hazarding guesses about deeply personal thoughts... nothing wrong with that, right James? 

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ryn2

[redacted]

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CBC
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

Unless you meant his shoes he already told us upthread.  Or maybe it was a different thread so we can’t discuss it here.  :)

Oh lol, did he? Dick size has actually been mentioned?! :lol: 

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GoneForGood

(quotes removed)

 

These statements are trans and intersex phobic, do you really have to use already marginalized groups to make an attack on someone?

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