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uhtred

What is typical and does it matter

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ryn2

So far not one single person has commented on how we can weigh relative sacrifices and gains between partners, between aces and sexuals, etc.

 

If we can’t weigh them, how can we possible know who is sacrificing more, who is happier, etc.?

 

Both sides say they’re not asking for compromise on a big thing... but if it wasn’t a big thing both sides would compromise easily. 

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ryn2
1 minute ago, James121 said:

Agreed. The road runs both ways with that word ‘compromise’ though.

Agreed, but anywhere it can’t or won’t the unhappier party can vote with their feet.

 

Also, uhtred has already stated he only wants sex that’s entered into by someone who genuinely desires having it with him.  If his wife is ace, even if she agrees to

have sex with him every day, she can’t actually compromise on the desire part because it just isn’t there.

 

Just like, if you’re heterosexual (not bi), you aren’t going to desire sex with a man.  Even if you could compromise and *have* that sex, you’re never going to desire it and therefore cannot give him that.

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uhtred
1 hour ago, James121 said:

Ok, so to be clear and factual then. Your wife declines sex because she is asexual and thus has no innate desire for partnered sex. This makes you very miserable.

When you kick up enough of a stink she participates. Not only does she participate, she is not distressed by it and shows evidence of enjoyment from the act. This is an act that puts a great big smile on your face! The financial implications of her participation are £0 and 0 pence and the time implications of her have sex on those 2 occasions probably amount to no more than an hour if that!

It makes you wonder, what they f**k is she thinking withholding sex in the first place? I quite agree with others that this is not deliberately malicious but I mean FFS talk about selfish.

Is it any wonder people like you can become resentful and end up cheating? 

Its simply ludicrous!

 

 

 

 

I would really like to understand what is going on in her mind. 

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ryn2
1 hour ago, James121 said:

It’s a shame she doesn’t adopt the same stance.

If she’s actually ace, in this case, what other choice does she?  The more regularly they have sex, the harder it will probably be for her to give the impression she actually desires it... which is what he says he wants.  So either they have more sex which is worse for both of them, or they stay at a level where each instance of sex they do have meets his standards.

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James121
4 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

If she’s actually ace, in this case, what other choice does she?  The more regularly they have sex, the harder it will probably be for her to give the impression she actually desires it... which is what he says he wants.  So either they have more sex which is worse for both of them, or they stay at a level where each instance of sex they do have meets his standards.

Judging by what the OP wrote.....no true at all.

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ryn2
1 minute ago, uhtred said:

When you kick up enough of a stink she participates. Not only does she participate, she is not distressed by it and shows evidence of enjoyment from the act.

(this should show up as quoting james but didn’t...)

 

Maybe 1) she is a whole lot less thrilled about it than she lets on, or 2) this is as often as she can do it and actually be okay to good about it?

 

People seem to be assuming it’s just an hour out of her day, what’s the big deal.  James, if you had even ten minutes of sex with a man - not just to take a bet, but knowing every time you do it he’s actually going to want it more often - would that just take 10 minutes out of your day?

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ryn2
Just now, James121 said:

Judging by what the OP wrote.....no true at all.

Only his wife knows what’s true from her perspective.  We know what uhtred very kindly hopes is true.

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uhtred
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

If she’s actually ace, in this case, what other choice does she?  The more regularly they have sex, the harder it will probably be for her to give the impression she actually desires it... which is what he says he wants.  So either they have more sex which is worse for 

both of them, or they stay at a level where each instance of sex they do have meets his standards.

My best model is that she would like to want sex, but in reality only rarely does. When she does want sex she is very happy to have it, but that is rare.   But that fails to explain why on the occasions when its been an unusually long time and I'm unusually unhappy she seems happy to have extra sex

 

Different model: She believes that there is a *correct* amount of sex, and is so self-controlling that she only admits to herself that she wants that particular quantity.  When she feels we are "falling behind" she is happy to have more sex.  Other times she feels it is "wrong" to have too much sex.   (wouldn't be the strangest set of feelings about sex someone could have). 

 

 

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James121
10 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Agreed, but anywhere it can’t or won’t the unhappier party can vote with their feet.

 

Also, uhtred has already stated he only wants sex that’s entered into by someone who genuinely desires having it with him.  If his wife is ace, even if she agrees to

have sex with him every day, she can’t actually compromise on the desire part because it just isn’t there.

 

Just like, if you’re heterosexual (not bi), you aren’t going to desire sex with a man.  Even if you could compromise and *have* that sex, you’re never going to desire it and therefore cannot give him that.

Isn’t it funny that it’s almost unheard of to hear the asexual or low libido spouse voting with their feet thus saving someone they supposedly care about years of unhappiness? 

Thats because they merrily live in denial that they cause any unhappiness. After all, no one is obligated to have sex!  Ignorance is bliss. 

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uhtred
3 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

snip

Maybe 1) she is a whole lot less thrilled about it than she lets on, or 2) this is as often as she can do it and actually be okay to good about it?

 

Yes, that question of course weighs on me. Maybe sex is really horrible to her and she just pretends that she enjoys as often as she can stand in a self-sacrificing attempt to make me happy.

 

Its the mirror image of her being an evil manipulative whatsit, and intentionally rationing sex to control me.

 

I don't think either is likely, but I can't completely rule out either. 

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ryn2
2 minutes ago, James121 said:

Isn’t it funny that it’s almost unheard of to hear the asexual or low libido spouse voting with their feet thus saving someone they supposedly care about years of unhappiness? 

How often does anyone leave a situation that is not breaking their own deal-breakers because it could be breaking someone else’s?  And when they do, we say “I’m an adult; what right do you have to think for me?”

 

If your needs aren’t being met, you have the option to leave.  If your partner’s needs aren’t being met, your partner has the option to leave.

 

People who stay anyway are just exercising another valid choice; to prioritize other things over those unmet needs.

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James121
1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

How often does anyone leave a situation that is not breaking their own deal-breakers because it could be breaking someone else’s?  And when they do, we say “I’m an adult; what right do you have to think for me?”

 

If your needs aren’t being met, you have the option to leave.  If your partner’s needs aren’t being met, your partner has the option to leave.

 

People who stay anyway are just exercising another valid choice; to prioritize other things over those unmet needs.

How is an asexual who is being pursued for sex they apparently don’t want having their needs met? 

 

You are correct though, why would the asexual/low libido partner leave? When they have it exactly how they want it! They just wouldn’t leave under such circumstances.

 

 

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ryn2
8 minutes ago, James121 said:

Thats because they merrily live in denial that they cause any unhappiness.

There aren’t many people of any orientation who would vote with their feet in any scenario like this one, because if they believe their partner loves them then they’d expect that “dumping them to be nice” hurts the partner too.  Anyone who’s been dumped “because I know what’s best for you” knows there’s nothing nice about it... and, as above, it’s reasonable to think the parter is prioritizing the relationship over the thing (more sex in this case) because the partner hasn’t left.

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ryn2
3 minutes ago, James121 said:

How is an asexual who is being pursued for sex they apparently don’t want having their needs met? 

It’s not their ideal situation, but that doesn’t mean it’s their dealbreaker either.

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ryn2
4 minutes ago, James121 said:

You are correct though, why would the asexual/low libido partner leave? When they have it exactly how they want it! They just wouldn’t leave under such circumstances.

Just like it is for you, it’s not a case of having it “exactly how you want it” (if they think they do, major communication fail all around).  Every relationship has pros and cons.  While the pros consistently outweigh the cons, you stay.  When the cons consistently outweigh the pros, you go.

 

Everyone’s criteria for pros, cons, and priorities are a little different.

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James121
21 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

It’s not their ideal situation, but that doesn’t mean it’s their dealbreaker either.

This very forum suggests it’s every asexuals worst nightmare! Something isn’t adding up!

 

Really really odd!

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ryn2
29 minutes ago, James121 said:

This very forum suggests it’s every asexuals worst nightmare! Something isn’t adding up!

 

Really really odd!

For some aces it’s unbearable.  For some it’s a dealbreaker.  For some there are workable compromises.  For some things seem workable and get less so over time.

 

You keep ignoring the posts where people try to get you to think about how the experience of sex you really don’t want, with someone you really don’t find sexually attractive/desirable, might be different than your experience of sex you don’t want right now (but with someone you do desire and normally want sex with).

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James121
5 hours ago, ryn2 said:

For some aces it’s unbearable.  For some it’s a dealbreaker.  For some there are workable compromises.  For some things seem workable and get less so over time.

 

You keep ignoring the posts where people try to get you to think about how the experience of sex you really don’t want, with someone you really don’t find sexually attractive/desirable, might be different than your experience of sex you don’t want right now (but with someone you do desire and normally want sex with).

I don’t ignore them. Here’s my answer to what would happen if I was asked to have sex with someone I don’t find desirable or attractive.....I wouldn’t! Nor would I have married them!

 

 

So assuming that person is my spouse albeit I wouldn’t have married someone I have no desire to have sex with, I would acknowledge that I have completely changed the dynamics of the relationship and not only moved the goalposts but moved the pitch. So I would offer a sensible and fair solution. What that solution is remains to be seen but I don’t see sex once in a blue moon that is clearly begrudged as a solution.

Thats my answer.

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ryn2

Ah, so the man is a bad comparison for you because you’re sure without trying that you have no attraction and never would.

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Sally
23 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

The core issue is the presence of sex in a relationship. It makes the sexual happy, and its absence makes the asexual happy.

 

The asexual can remove it from the relationship with the word 'no'. 

 

The sexual has no comparable option.

 

Which is why we get to 'just leave'.

 

If the asexual says "No", the sexual is unhappy.

 

If the sexual says "Yes", the asexual is unhappy.

 

Unhappiness of one or both partners is why we get to "just leave".  

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uhtred
17 hours ago, Sally said:

 

If the asexual says "No", the sexual is unhappy.

 

If the sexual says "Yes", the asexual is unhappy.

 

Unhappiness of one or both partners is why we get to "just leave".  

If sex were the only important part of a relationship, it would be simple.  In real life though there are a lot of different factors, with sex as an important but not completely dominant factor. 

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ryn2
2 minutes ago, uhtred said:

If sex were the only important part of a relationship, it would be simple.  In real life though there are a lot of different factors, with sex as an important but not completely dominant factor. 

Yes, and that’s why I maintain that there isn’t going to be one right choice for everyone.  For some people sex may be the deciding factor, and that’s fine.  For others it may not be and that is also fine.

 

The impression I get is that it’s pretty rare to find a relationship that works well in every key category over time.

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Telecaster68
9 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Yes, and that’s why I maintain that there isn’t going to be one right choice for everyone.  For some people sex may be the deciding factor, and that’s fine.  For others it may not be and that is also fine.

 

The impression I get is that it’s pretty rare to find a relationship that works well in every key category over time.

The thing that makes sex different is that it's generally not acceptable to be handled outside of the relationship.

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ryn2
18 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

The thing that makes sex different is that it's generally not acceptable to be handled outside of the relationship.

Other major conflict areas (e.g., finances, division of work, parenting style, etc.) can’t be addressed  that way either, though...  a lot of prime relationship conflict areas don’t fall in the “I like x and spouse doesn’t so I do it with my friends” category.

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Homer

From what I gathered by talking to people about their relationships, it doesn't really matter whether something is "typical" or not. It's more about compatibility. If all parties involved are happy with sexless vacations, all the power to them. If they want to go for sex five times a week, cool. The problems only occur if the needs don't match, no matter whether they're "normal" or not.

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GoneForGood
32 minutes ago, Homer said:

From what I gathered by talking to people about their relationships, it doesn't really matter whether something is "typical" or not. It's more about compatibility. If all parties involved are happy with sexless vacations, all the power to them. If they want to go for sex five times a week, cool. The problems only occur if the needs don't match, no matter whether they're "normal" or not.

In unequal matches though often people use "everyone else does [x]" so you need to also. (it can be anything not even just sex)

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HeyTay

The thing is... it does not matter what is typical, what is right, or what is wrong. So I would not approach it in this way. I feel like I would become defensive in this scenario.

 

Word it like, “I would like for us to be more affectionate(hand holding, etc).” Or... “I would like to have a romantic evening where we make love.” Though, this is all dependent on if you guys compromise. Occasionally, I get distracted and don’t do the simple things like hand holding or standing close to my partner which makes him feel worried/stressed. 

In the end, what matters is how you feel and how she feels. 

 

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uhtred
23 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Other major conflict areas (e.g., finances, division of work, parenting style, etc.) can’t be addressed  that way either, though...  a lot of prime relationship conflict areas don’t fall in the “I like x and spouse doesn’t so I do it with my friends” category.

Agreed, but there is also a big difference.  If I felt my spouse wasn't doing her share of the housework and wanted to hire a cleaning service, few people would consider that objectionable / immoral  - it might or might not make sense with our income, but there is nothing "wrong" with it. 

 

If my spouse isn't willing to have as much sex as I want, many people find the idea of hiring a prostitute to be objectionable / immoral

 

I think sex is different. 

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ryn2
1 hour ago, uhtred said:

Agreed, but there is also a big difference.  If I felt my spouse wasn't doing her share of the housework and wanted to hire a cleaning service, few people would consider that objectionable / immoral  - it might or might not make sense with our income, but there is nothing "wrong" with it. 

 

If my spouse isn't willing to have as much sex as I want, many people find the idea of hiring a prostitute to be objectionable / immoral

 

I think sex is different. 

That one’s hard to generalize, too, as a fair number of sexual posters here on AVEN have expressly stated that having sex with someone else does not address the issue; that for them, at least, they want to have it with their partner.

 

Money is similar in that there may well not be legal, moral, workable ways to resolve issues around it.

 

 

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HeyTay

 

@uhtredHave you guys tried talking to a healthcare professional? Studies show that there are biochemical and emotional reasons that people desire sex from their partner. It’s a little unfair to compare sex to dessert (if that is truly what she is doing). 😅

 

It is also possible that she is experiencing an extreme low post sex and could need a lot of attention or distraction afterwards? So even if she might feel neutral or enjoy sex, she could be experiencing post-sex blues. It can cause you to think you regret having sex.

 

And yeah... going to a sex-friend outside the relationship could be painful. I could see this enhancing an Ace’s feelings of inadequacy and make the Sexual question if their partner loves them enough to stop them from doing this super intimate thing with someone else. However, open relationships work for some people 🤷‍♀️ 

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