Lord Jade Cross Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 . Link to post Share on other sites
uhtred Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 11:07 PM, LauraGarnham said: My origial post elludes to a world where people work if they want to, but no one has to work. Everyone would get enough money to cover their needs plus a bit extra so they can have a reasonable quality of life ... e.g. have hobbies, go on holiday occasionally (so by living wage I mean something you can have a good life on). There would be incentives for doing work (e.g. more money, or for people who actually enjoy their work) but it would be your choice to work or not. Obviously this is not something that can exist in the world at the time (and maybe would not work at all), but maybe in the future..., or maybe at least people will not be expected to work so many hours. I think then we would disagree on this. If feel that people working (usually) benefits society so I'd prefer a world where people who were able to work did so. Its tricky because I don't think people need to work as hard as possible - but I like think to think that everyone is contributing. (if they are able to). Otherwise I worry about a situation where either, the non-working become a poor, disliked under-class, or where it is so easy not to work, that the lazy live off the work of the dedicated. It would seem difficult to get the balance right. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraGarnham Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 hours ago, uhtred said: I think then we would disagree on this. If feel that people working (usually) benefits society so I'd prefer a world where people who were able to work did so. Its tricky because I don't think people need to work as hard as possible - but I like think to think that everyone is contributing. (if they are able to). Otherwise I worry about a situation where either, the non-working become a poor, disliked under-class, or where it is so easy not to work, that the lazy live off the work of the dedicated. It would seem difficult to get the balance right. Well I was not thinking so seriously about it, it is more that occasionally (often) I wish did not have to work, then I know I would enjoy my life much more...maybe selfish and maybe not at all practical, but I can wish. On a more serious note, for soceity to work (at least at the moment) people do have to work... but I think a lot of pressure in a lot of countries is put on working as hard as possible for as long as possible. It would be nice if, for example, people could work part time and therefore have a better work life balance and quality of life over all. Of course if people want to work they should be able to but it shouldn't be expected of them to work all the time. Also, those two situations you described, they definitely both exist in the world at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
uhtred Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 8 hours ago, LauraGarnham said: Well I was not thinking so seriously about it, it is more that occasionally (often) I wish did not have to work, then I know I would enjoy my life much more...maybe selfish and maybe not at all practical, but I can wish. On a more serious note, for soceity to work (at least at the moment) people do have to work... but I think a lot of pressure in a lot of countries is put on working as hard as possible for as long as possible. It would be nice if, for example, people could work part time and therefore have a better work life balance and quality of life over all. Of course if people want to work they should be able to but it shouldn't be expected of them to work all the time. Also, those two situations you described, they definitely both exist in the world at the moment. Nothing wrong with fantasies. I do agree that often there is pressure to work as hard as possible and that doesn't seem like a good answer. I actually think people could be happier if society were better at matching people with jobs that they enjoyed. There are people who actively enjoy their jobs (like me), and many more who are content in their jobs. Maybe if there were better training / guidance in school people could gravitate to the sort of jobs that suited their personality and interests. I'm not picturing some magical utopia where everyone is super-happy with their jobs, but I think it would be possible to improve things. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Maybe with increased automation, there'll be no careers. Link to post Share on other sites
uhtred Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 hours ago, chandrakirti said: Maybe with increased automation, there'll be no careers. At first that seems great - but then the question comes up "who owns the automation"? Followed by, "why will they use the automation to do things for *other* people". While it could lead to a utopian future, I'm worried it will lead to an even greater level or wealth disparity Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jetsun Milarepa Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 My sentiments too @uhtred. Link to post Share on other sites
Karst Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I think that there are always going to be jobs that automation just can't do- novel scientific research, for example, or creating artwork. Link to post Share on other sites
Omelette Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 It always seems so crazy to me how some countries (USA, Japan) put so much focus on work and so little on work-life balance. Like, the numbers I hear for holiday days per year just seem like a way to burn people out. I guess I'm particularly sensitive to this because of my mental health. I'm sure that in many places I'd be considered lazy. I burned out. There were weeks last year where buying myself lunch was the most effort I could put in one day. In a different place, with a different supervisor, I'm afraid I'd have slipped through the cracks, been kicked out and potentially never had the chance to recover. And I'm one of the fortunate ones. I've got some specialized skills and my brain is important for my work, so I was encouraged to take care of my brain. It's just...I wish more people had this opportunity. Maybe we're not yet ready for a concept like universal income; it hasn't been tested enough. But surely allowing people to have a life outside of their work, whether they're writing software or making you a sandwich, would seem like a humane thing to do? Link to post Share on other sites
daveb Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 46 minutes ago, Omelette said: holiday days per year One of the sad things to me is how many people are reluctant to take the holidays and vacation time they do get. I know there are various reasons for that - some people actually love the work they do that much; some feel like they don't deserve the time off; some are afraid they will be seen as lazy or not as committed to the job or company; some are afraid if they are away from the job their employers might realize those people and/or their position is not irreplaceable; and many other reasons. But people are entitled to the time off and I believe it is important for mental health and to avoid burnout, like you said. Link to post Share on other sites
Chihiro Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, daveb said: One of the sad things to me is how many people are reluctant to take the holidays and vacation time they do get. I know there are various reasons for that - some people actually love the work they do that much; some feel like they don't deserve the time off; some are afraid they will be seen as lazy or not as committed to the job or company; some are afraid if they are away from the job their employers might realize those people and/or their position is not irreplaceable; and many other reasons. But people are entitled to the time off and I believe it is important for mental health and to avoid burnout, like you said. Thats true. I myself couldn't take vacations because my job was so demanding, and coming back after a few days meant being out of the loop. And vacation didnt mean someone else would do my job while I was away. So, vacation was a pain in the ass. Before going, I would have to overwork to finish my tasks which would have been due during my vacation period. And after coming from vacation, I would have to catch up with whatever work that was pending, while taking on additional work. And if I took a long vacation then I would forget whatever work I was doing, how to even do the work, passwords etc so it felt like starting a new job. I have quit my job and taking a long long vacation of months now and I am so happy. Its going to bite me when I try to rejoin the workforce, but whatever *shrugs* Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 8:19 AM, uhtred said: I actually think people could be happier if society were better at matching people with jobs that they enjoyed. We'd need to determine who "society" consists of, and whether that entity is willing to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
uhtred Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Sally said: We'd need to determine who "society" consists of, and whether that entity is willing to do so. I'm using to to mean the set of interactions between people. Not an entity, and not intelligent, but the interactions can still be modified to change how it reacts. Link to post Share on other sites
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