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I saw this today


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ElasticPlanet
21 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

the hysterical requirements for gender affirmation at the risk of suicide (exaggerated), and the rates of desistence (under-reported).

First, thank you for such a detailed response this time. I haven't seen that BBC documentary yet, but now I know where to find it I'll be able to. But I have heard very negative feedback from trans people who have watched it and thought it gave undue credence to Kenneth Zucker and people with similar views. On your quote above, I think threats of suicide do express a deeply felt need which deserves to be addressed sensibly, whether that threat will be carried out or not. And on desistance, those who first used the word in this way have a lot to answer for... which involves Zucker again.

 

7 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

I don't understand why the message becomes "if you are a male who likes dolls and dresses then you must be a woman," instead of "it's absolutely fine for boys to like dolls and dresses."

I don't think the message is that; it certainly shouldn't be. I think the concern is that a group of people going to great lengths to advocate a particular flavour of what they call feminism, are trying to pin everyone to their assigned gender regardless of whether or why they like dolls and dresses. Taking the two examples from what you just said, nobody should ever be pushed towards trans woman or pushed towards femme cis man. Instead, everyone in that position needs to be offered both possibilities and the freedom to find the answer that works for them. Trans people are not trying to get the uncertain ones pushed towards trans - we are simply trying to prevent anyone being pushed away from trans.

 

46 minutes ago, Chimeric said:

I don't think school children need to be taught the intricacies of a field that hasn't gotten itself sorted out yet

I'm not sure intricacies are needed for everyone. Maybe awareness of the possibilities is for everyone. That way, those who are cis can at least see the need to be more accepting. People like me will be able to recognise that their problems may have an answer, and can start looking for the intricacies they need at 8 instead of 38. I think the 'sorting itself out' that you speak of is an ongoing process and there will never be a good time to declare the job done. Meanwhile, people are suffering much more from lack of access to trans-related things and ideas, than from any bewilderment over being offered too much.

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1 hour ago, Chimeric said:

My biggest hangup is that I don't understand why the message becomes "if you are a male who likes dolls and dresses then you must be a woman," instead of "it's absolutely fine for boys to like dolls and dresses."

Most people agree with the latter and not the former. That said, aversion to particular gender roles can be an indicator of a gender that does not match what was assigned at birth. It's not the biggest factor, though, because what matters is how a person wants to be acknowledged regardless of how they behave.

 

Maybe gender should be done away with, but currently it's everywhere and has a huge affect on most people. These people's reasoning for questioning their own gender should not be restricted. Telling someone ELSE that they're a woman because they like dolls is BS, but looking at oneself and thinking "Maybe I behave this way because I am a different gender" is fine. Exploring ones own gender generally leads to a desire for change in gender roles, anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Chimeric said:

I certainly don't think that message should involve things like periods, especially not for 8 year olds.

Would you mind explaining why? Why is a period any different from using the bathroom? It's natural and it will happen to about half of the student body, and it's not sexual or a legal matter.

 

8 year olds might be a little squeamish and confused, but so will 14 year olds and even 18 year olds. The likelihood is that they will hear about it and say "Weird!" and then move on to math and games and whatever else, now better prepared for when it happens. It's not a big deal unless everyone acts like it is, same with being transgender and different sexualities. Their introduction to the topic early could lead to far less discomfort later. It would certainly help the kids whose period starts at 8 or 9 as opposed to 11 or 12. It doesn't have to be taboo.

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