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Living a Moneyless Life


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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/jun/02/mark-boyle-moneyless-man-food-for-free

 

I read this article about a guy who lived without money. I want to do that because I dedicated my life to financial poverty! I can also "play" (aka have experiences through adventuring) with friends who may want to do this with me. If I pass away in the process, at least I did so while on a grand adventure!

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I've been in a somewhat similar process myself. I'm investing trust and support in the universe, as it's willing and able to support my journey and my mission here, and I'm investing trust in myself to live in the will of the divine, with the ability to manifest what I need to in line with that. I know that regardless of the outcome, I'll be far more abundant, connected, and grateful than most people will have the grace and ability to access (at least, in this lifetime), and I'm incredibly thankful for that and whatever comes of my life and whatever I'm able to offer to others in that journey.

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Chocolatastic AroAce

Sure if you want to. I can't tell if your being serious or not.

 

Personally I have no desire to relive my childhood and would like to stay as far away from the poverty line as I can.

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Being homeless was mostly fun for me. It's very hard to damn near impossible to do the type of artwork I want from that standpoint, though. I feel like it gave me a lot of perspective, and I've pretty much just decided to accept it if I'm thrust in that situation again.

 

Hell, known people that actually do have money they are saving somewhere but choose to live homeless because they like it.

 

If you are living in a crappy area with crack everywhere, well that's probably not too much fun. At least being homeless gives you the ability to travel.

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1 minute ago, Ameline257 said:

Sure if you want to. I can't tell if your being serious or not.

 

Personally I have no desire to relive my childhood and would like to stay as far away from the poverty line as I can.

I understand this perspective, and if I may, I'd like to speak to my experience to maybe give context for why I personally identify with this:

I was raised in not-so-great circumstances, and as a result, I face challenges now that have prevented me from living a conventional, healthy life (at least, as I was living before). I pushed myself incredibly hard to get out of the situations I found myself in, and unfortunately, the stress and the unresolved trauma and relationship with self had caused me to regress to a point where I was unable to work or study or do much of anything without any and all of it taking a severe mental, physical toll on me.

I started on my spiritual journey some time in all of that, and I realized that at this point in my life, it would be near impossible to go forth by acting in the world and "making things happen", and so I went inward, working on myself and changing my relationship with things. Not as an apologist for those who have been abusive and shitty, but so I can cope more readily with the world and my place in it. In that process, I found great solace and understanding in my capacity to do what I CAN do, as well as in my environment and the support that I do have to allow me the necessities to make a better life for myself, with what I have been capable of.

It took a SHITTON of work, but at this point, I've been in a really positive place. My mental and physical health are better, and to the point where I'm able to get back out into the world, potentially work if I need to, and do what it is that I want to create in my life (and be the person capable of creating those results). In that, though, I've realized that I find comfort and peace in living a more minimalistic life, not necessarily austere to the point of constant insecurity, but minimal enough to be line with "trusting in the way of things/the universe/spirit/etc.". At this point, regardless of my financial situation or physical environment, I know that I will NEVER feel as empty and impoverished and helpless as I felt in those times where I didn't have control over my situation. I accept that I may not be able to control as much as I would have liked to in the past, and I find peace in knowing that I can control my relationship with everything, and that's more than enough, so long as I allow it to be.

A lot of these beliefs and ideas are in line with Buddhist teachings, which I often find myself embracing. With that being said, I absolutely get that it's not that easy to just... jump into believing these things, and there's massive validity in the feelings you experience and express in relation to this. I don't want people to just accept trauma and shitty circumstances, and I'm a big proponent of doing work to help that. But I've gotten to the point in my journey where this level of trust has become a part of my process of changing my relationship to past circumstances and my feelings and reactions to them. Not to say that that path is for everybody or that it's right, but it's what I find solace in for the time being, and if the situation or my life or I call for it, I'd be more than willing to change it all. Even if that means working and living a life as conventional as feasibly possible at this point in my life. And for the time being, I'm here and learning to be happy and abundance regardless of my financial situation or physical surroundings.

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I met a guy who did this. He did pretty well for himself, as a young white guy with no health problems. He lived a nomadic life, brought with him only what he could carry, did odd jobs or sold trinkets he made himself for food. The whole idea was very romantic.

 

But it's not really sustainable as you get older, sadly. As your joints wear out and you get less visually appealing and people are more likely to steer clear of you than be charmed by you. Suddenly you're 50+ and achy and don't have any retirement or anywhere to sleep consistently.

 

I think it's a fine thing to do when you're 23 and want to take a gap year and try an adventure. But it's less of an adventure and more like just barely getting by when you're older. You've got to be careful that your adventure doesn't turn into genuine homelessness.

 

Minimalism might be a better approach.

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Update:

I forgot to tell you guys why this has occurred in my life. Well, it started to build itself into my life yesterday. I was watching a live webinar where a guy, Victor Oddo, was describing how he and his friend, Aaron Doughty, built a 6 figure career with YouTube. I asked some questions and neither Victor nor Aaron even acknowledged my existence, yet seemed to be acknowledging everyone else's. It made me uneasy at first but then I realized that, if my worth will not be recognized there, it will be elsewhere. I must add, too, that I learned absolutely NOTHING from this webinar. So, I figured I'd pursue a meaningful life WITHOUT money that WITH money. After all, if you think you need money to have an abundant life, are you really free? I thought I'd go to the Queer Student Alliance to ease the tension. That didn't really help, as I wasn't too welcome there. My personality didn't match those of everyone there, so I left and now I live in a cemetery.

 

1 hour ago, Ameline257 said:

I can't tell if your being serious or not.

Oh yes, I'm being VERY serious!

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4 hours ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/jun/02/mark-boyle-moneyless-man-food-for-free

 

I read this article about a guy who lived without money. I want to do that because I dedicated my life to financial poverty! I can also "play" (aka have experiences through adventuring) with friends who may want to do this with me. If I pass away in the process, at least I did so while on a grand adventure!

This article didn't actually talk about much other than food, which is one of the most easily attainable things for free. Everything else, like where you sleep, the land you live on, the clothes you wear, heck even transport (and I say this as someone who doesn't drive at all) do end up costing money unless you're extremely, extremely knowledgeable about survival. I'm just interested to know what he did for everything else? Because when I was homeless, many of us still needed to scrounge money for things other than food, and relied a lot on people (churches, the local homeless shelter, public washroooms etc) to fill very basic needs which really couldn't be met without some kind of source of income. And I mean hey, if you've bought your own little patch of land to build a house on, that's great. But, you still need money to buy that. And you need the housing permits and the building equipment/recourses etc unless you're incredibly resourceful when it comes to building (very few people are), or is he sleeping in the forest?. Then there's clothes, is he skip diving for clothes? I'm just interested to know about everything other than food because as someone who has lived with no money and been homeless in the past, food is definitely the easiest and most available thing to get for free. It's everything else that gets tricky.

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Chocolatastic AroAce
5 hours ago, Ficto. said:

This article didn't actually talk about much other than food, which is one of the most easily attainable things for free. Everything else, like where you sleep, the land you live on, the clothes you wear, heck even transport (and I say this as someone who doesn't drive at all) do end up costing money unless you're extremely, extremely knowledgeable about survival. I'm just interested to know what he did for everything else? Because when I was homeless, many of us still needed to scrounge money for things other than food, and relied a lot on people (churches, the local homeless shelter, public washroooms etc) to fill very basic needs which really couldn't be met without some kind of source of income. And I mean hey, if you've bought your own little patch of land to build a house on, that's great. But, you still need money to buy that. And you need the housing permits and the building equipment/recourses etc unless you're incredibly resourceful when it comes to building (very few people are), or is he sleeping in the forest?. Then there's clothes, is he skip diving for clothes? I'm just interested to know about everything other than food because as someone who has lived with no money and been homeless in the past, food is definitely the easiest and most available thing to get for free. It's everything else that gets tricky.

Not to mention that depending on where you live, the chances of something bad happening to you are greater. Also if your a minority or a women, your in for a rough time. If you think relying on other peoples sympathy is a good system, your in for a shock. As I don't think too many people actually think/care about homelessness...in fact you will be treated as less then dirt. Sure you may be able to get into a homeless shelter but you can't stay in one forever. 

 

Each their own I guess....it just seems like the guy in the article makes homelessness out to be a fun adventurer... it really isn't. Unless you think it is an adventure trying to find shelter in a snow storm and having people ignore you. Or try to assault you, because who is going to miss another homeless person?

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1 hour ago, Ameline257 said:

Not to mention that depending on where you live, the chances of something bad happening to you are greater. Also if your a minority or a women, your in for a rough time. If you think relying on other peoples sympathy is a good system, your in for a shock. As I don't think too many people actually think/care about homelessness...in fact you will be treated as less then dirt. Sure you may be able to get into a homeless shelter but you can't stay in one forever. 

 

Each their own I guess....it just seems like the guy in the article makes homelessness out to be a fun adventurer... it really isn't. Unless you think it is an adventure trying to find shelter in a snow storm and having people ignore you. Or try to assault you, because who is going to miss another homeless person?

Yeah the article really didn't cover enough to know way or another what this man is actually doing. Does he mean he just didn't spend money on food, but stayed in a safe home, or what? :o 

 

I am hoping that @The Angel of Eternity will be able to give some more info!

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Anthracite_Impreza

Can't have cars without money, so massive NOPE.

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You live in a cemetery in SLC where night time temps are at or below freezing?  Are you sleeping in your car?  

 

Lucinda

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Guest Jetsun Milarepa

George Orwell live 'down and out in London and Paris' while researching poverty in the 1930s. 

He was able to draw attention to the massive inequalities that'll probably always exist ....and caught the TB that shortened his life, in that process.

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In the County where I live, we have 12,000 people who must live on the streets because they can't afford homes, and most are constantly ill-fed.  That is not an ideal milieu for attaining spiritual awakening.   It's hard to read four paragraphs about how wonderful it is or would be to live without money without wondering who's paying for your food and clothes.  

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Doesn't living without money mean that you are relying on others to support you if you need medical care, and possibly for food and shelter as well - unless you work some sort of barter system.  It may be possible to get free food and shelter, but that doesn't mean that those things didn't cost someone *else*. 

 

What are you doing for everyone else to hold up your part of society?  Isn't it a moral obligation for everyone who is able to to contribute to society, and not just let others care for them?

 

 

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16 hours ago, uhtred said:

 

 

What are you doing for everyone else to hold up your part of society?  Isn't it a moral obligation for everyone who is able to to contribute to society, and not just let others care for them?

 

 

Plenty of societies in human history have let people go off on adventures for the sake of science, God, or just seeing whether it actually is possible to climb that mountain.

As long as too many people don't do it at once, it can benefit the group as a whole, if the wanderer survives to bring back insights.

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17 minutes ago, Ardoise said:

Plenty of societies in human history have let people go off on adventures for the sake of science, God, or just seeing whether it actually is possible to climb that mountain.

As long as too many people don't do it at once, it can benefit the group as a whole, if the wanderer survives to bring back insights.

And when they go off on those adventures, or pursue science, or God, or climb mountains, someone has to provide their food, clothing, and shelter.  That all costs money, and this thread is talking about living without money.  

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On 12/7/2018 at 3:26 PM, Ardoise said:

Plenty of societies in human history have let people go off on adventures for the sake of science, God, or just seeing whether it actually is possible to climb that mountain.

As long as too many people don't do it at once, it can benefit the group as a whole, if the wanderer survives to bring back insights.

Societies do sometimes agree that its worth the cost (eg money) for someone to be the first to climb Everest, go to the South Pole, or the moon.  Wealthy patrons may pay for someone to travel to foreign lands to bring back valuable information.  They may pay skilled artists etc. 

Most of the people who did those things were funded because of their extraordinary abilities.   Marco Polo,  Amundsen, Armstrong, etc. were the best of the best at what they do.  I have no skill that would have it make sense for Society to pay to send me on some adventure rather than send someone better qualified - so I work a normal job (which I happen to enjoy) as my contribution.



 

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On 12/7/2018 at 9:29 PM, Next-Level Consciousness said:

I can't really agree with: 

6. Our community provides for all its members the necessities of a healthy, fulfilling and sustainable life, freely and without obligation.

 

I want society to provide necessities for those that cannot provide for themselves, but I don't want a world where some people feel free to not contribute, despite being able to, and live off the effort of others.  That doesn't seem fair. 

 

Shouldn't everyone contribute to an extent compatible with their abilities?

 

 

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36 minutes ago, uhtred said:

...  Our community provides for all its members the necessities of a healthy, fulfilling and sustainable life, freely and without obligation.

 

My idea of a total nightmare. I have already grown up, I can look after myself. 

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"There's no such thing as a free lunch" because ultimately, somebody's gotta pay for it. It might be free to you, but not free to everyone else.

 

If someone chooses to provide for someone and get little to nothing in return then more power to them, but not everyone will be willing to do that.

 

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Yeah, there must be some sort of support at some level. Or if people are living "off the land", raising and/or foraging for their food, creating shelter from found materials such as tree branches, etc., what happens when they are no longer able to do that for whatever reason? I don't see how it would be sustainable for an entire adult lifetime, nor on a wide scale by large numbers of people. Seems like at best it could only be a temporary situation (or adventure, if you like).

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/8/2018 at 1:43 AM, uhtred said:

I can't really agree with: 

6. Our community provides for all its members the necessities of a healthy, fulfilling and sustainable life, freely and without obligation.

 

I want society to provide necessities for those that cannot provide for themselves, but I don't want a world where some people feel free to not contribute, despite being able to, and live off the effort of others.  That doesn't seem fair. 

 

Shouldn't everyone contribute to an extent compatible with their abilities?

 

 

thatis definitely something to be weighted on the scales, but ultimately I do not think it is a nessisary truth. in a surplus society, where more than what is needed for anyone who wants to simply live life without giving intentionally back into the system, this is not true. but that is a hard society to imagine.

 

I think trust is the biggest hurdle to get to that society, not the elimination of scarcity. trust that there are enough people simply just existing around the couch that if I lift my end I'm not going to just be left hanging. and I agree we don't live in that sort of society today. and going on individual hobo adventures isn't going to change that. hell'if I know what will, though...

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On 12/8/2018 at 1:46 AM, Thea2 said:

My idea of a total nightmare. I have already grown up, I can look after myself. 

can you? how much of your life have you personally brought to yourself? you are currently looking at a screen, how does that even work? the people who figured how to make this all work, they don't care about you, about your individual buying power. you are not integral to the machines of society that keep you alive. most of us aren't even a part of what keeps us alive anymore, we're just making money to make money. and because we are able to fool ourselves into believing that currency is a measure of self worth we can parasitize ourselves onto the system.

your world LITERALLY changes your diapers for you. it is just 'kind' enough to lie to you about it.

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Anthracite_Impreza

Yeah, independence is a myth. Society has to work together, depend on each other. Someone's driving the bus you need to get to work. Someone else built the bus. Someone else built the road and someone else built the building you work in. Someone has to staff the coffee shop you stop at and when the computer breaks, someone has to come fix it. When you get home to relax someone made and fitted your carpets, grew, harvested, transported, packaged and sold your food. Need I go on?

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On 12/21/2018 at 8:36 PM, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Yeah, independence is a myth. Society has to work together, depend on each other. Someone's driving the bus you need to get to work. Someone else built the bus. Someone else built the road and someone else built the building you work in. Someone has to staff the coffee shop you stop at and when the computer breaks, someone has to come fix it. When you get home to relax someone made and fitted your carpets, grew, harvested, transported, packaged and sold your food. Need I go on?

In a complex society many different types of work are needed to make things smfuncton. Few people are independent, but collectively things function 

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On 12/21/2018 at 11:14 AM, gisiebob said:

thatis definitely something to be weighted on the scales, but ultimately I do not think it is a nessisary truth. in a surplus society, where more than what is needed for anyone who wants to simply live life without giving intentionally back into the system, this is not true. but that is a hard society to imagine.

 

I think trust is the biggest hurdle to get to that society, not the elimination of scarcity. trust that there are enough people simply just existing around the couch that if I lift my end I'm not going to just be left hanging. and I agree we don't live in that sort of society today. and going on individual hobo adventures isn't going to change that. hell'if I know what will, though...

I see it society as a bunch of people rowing a boat.  If its a large boat, then some people can sit there and not row, and the boat will still go forward, but isn't that unfair to the ones who are rowing?  Now some people are much stronger and can row harder, and others are frail and unable to row at all - but I think each should do what they are able.   To stretch the analogy further, maybe there are other jobs to do - someone needs to navigate, and that person needs the skills to do so.  Someone prepares food, etc.  I just don't see why some people get to be passengers unless they have provided something earlier. 

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2 hours ago, uhtred said:

I see it society as a bunch of people rowing a boat.  If its a large boat, then some people can sit there and not row, and the boat will still go forward, but isn't that unfair to the ones who are rowing?  Now some people are much stronger and can row harder, and others are frail and unable to row at all - but I think each should do what they are able.   To stretch the analogy further, maybe there are other jobs to do - someone needs to navigate, and that person needs the skills to do so.  Someone prepares food, etc.  I just don't see why some people get to be passengers unless they have provided something earlier. 

oh, hell yeah!

 

we have always had this societal contract of if I put my share of goodwill into the system thrn the system can support me, and currency has been the lubricant to that system.

that is us, today.

 

what if, on your boat, everyone stopped rowing but the boat still moved?

that's a sort of forced post-scarcity, the infinite energy and infinite material for every individual science fiction stuff that is easy to imagine but hard to realize

it's also something some might call a nanny state, and rightly so. the last thing I want is to give anyone the curse of never being able to lose a chess match.

 

what is the goal of playing a game of chess? it isn't to win. if you could just win at chess I bet you wouldn't play. wealth has never been our individual goal for making money, but it's hard to realize that. it looks like wining is the goal.

 

I appreciate fairness. so lets try to drop all our oars again. would you say it would be fair to force everyone to stop rowing? if you don't want to row and someone else does want to row and we are pretty sure the boat can possibly maybe move on its own??? do you have a beef with the person who still rows?

 


if everyone who wants to stops working and the machine still runs because of those who still work simply because they want to, is it unfair?

yes, today we don't trust that it would be fair. absolutely.

but we also have a nurtured mindset. we think the way we do from our environment, that a vacation to Cancun is success.

we believe we play chess to win.

I hope some day I can simply run into people who would like to explore a chess game with me.

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