Depression: Sexual with Asexual Partner

[ryn2]

3 hours ago, CBC said:

I've had an off-and-on romantic connection for a handful of years now with someone who can't seem to figure out that silence and avoidance are hurtful and crazy-making, and then acts taken aback and defensive and gets accusatory when I'm the one who ends up forcing communication on serious issues (not talking about sex specifically in this case, but that's not even relevant; the pattern and problem are the same). And then you feel bad for being the one who always has to initiate discussion. In my case it was already stressful enough dealing with no communication, but when someone doesn't like finally being confronted and acts like you're the asshole for not being ok with not talking about important things, it gets really difficult and exhausting and it fucks with your self-worth. People who think it's better to be quiet than have difficult discussions are toxic. It demonstrates a lack of consideration for your wellbeing, and ultimately you have to decide if you're ok being in a relationship with someone who appears not to give a shit about what their refusal to communicate effectively does to you.

I dealt with this for a long time and it was extremely difficult.  The person doing it was not ace, though.

 

In this particular case I think they were so mired in their own issues that they weren’t able to see, left alone muster any care about, the effect it all had on me.

 

That said, in my experience (not just in the above situation), repeatedly having conversations where you restate what you don’t want, reassure that it doesn’t have a deeper meaning, and apologize doesn’t necessarily lead to either party feeling better (or better understood).

[Ceebs]

@ryn2 Yeah, my situation has nothing to do with asexuality either and the whole thing is about a dozen types of fucked up that aren't anyone's fault, but it's a scenario in which we once both agreed to be open and honest with each other and then it evolved far beyond initial intentions, which were pretty non-specific anyway, and more recently I remained the only one who seemed to be striving for integrity. Like I say, fucked up situation from the beginning anyway, and it's definitely not for a lack of actual love on anyone's part, but I suppose bound to be a mess regardless. I tried incredibly hard, but my sanity and self-worth have gotten eroded even further than my already-shitty baseline for either of those things, and at some point it becomes about overall wellbeing for both of us. Mostly I'm just frustrated/sad that I ended up carrying a lot more of the weight and responsibility of the connection due to the other person's increasing inability to be open without being forced to be. Not talking properly is toxic and it became really painful for me. The few people who knew the details of the situation kept telling me I deserved better, and I kept clinging to my own excuses for my partner's (or whatever you call her) behaviour. There is still love, probably always will be, but it's a shitty situation and not talking honestly was the worst bit.

 

But yeah, I agree on the repeated conversations thing. Sometimes stuff just gets talked to death and it makes no difference, so you have to accept that and figure out how to go forward in whatever way is best for yourself regardless of your ideal. I've encountered that type of pattern in a relationship with a close relative. Definitely not just limited to romantic/sexual connections, although of course those are often the ones that are going to be particularly stressful when it comes to things like needs and wants.

[Telecaster68]

I don't mean insisting on endless circling discussions, but at the same time, a one-and-done announcement that Sex Is Over by the asexual, with absolutely no follow up, explanation or sympathy that this is actually a fundamental change in the relationship, and the subject is now closed since information has been imparted, isn't acceptable either.

[Ceebs]

For sure. People declaring life-altering things with little interest in discussing them in more depth is rude and extremely selfish. Communication is something you owe to those close to you even if you owe them nothing else, otherwise it's a relationship that's not very grounded in integrity and respect.

 

We don't really seem to know where things are at with the OP since they've not returned to discuss the matter further. Either there's something to be salvaged here, perhaps with communication facilitated by a professional, or there isn't and the OP has a choice to make.

[ryn2]

43 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I don't mean insisting on endless circling discussions, but at the same time, a one-and-done announcement that Sex Is Over by the asexual, with absolutely no follow up, explanation or sympathy that this is actually a fundamental change in the relationship, and the subject is now closed since information has been imparted, isn't acceptable either.

What would workable follow-up look like from your perspective?

[Telecaster68]

Maybe once or twice a month the asexual commiserating and checking in about how their partner was doing, rather than apparently obliviously going about their business. Just some empathy. 

 

Because the sexual partner is using empathy every time they don't initiate sex, every time they feel like touching their partner sexually but don't, every time they stuff down their feelings of rejection and remind themselves of all the other good things about the relationship, in order their partner doesn't have to deal with it,so some signs of reciprocal effort now and again would feel good. 

 

A parallel would be where one partner had chosen to suspend their career to support the other. There's no need for constant obeisance, but some acknowledgement of the situation now and then would be a graceful thing to do. 

[ryn2]

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Maybe once or twice a month the asexual commiserating and checking in about how their partner was doing, rather than apparently obliviously going about their business. Just some empathy. 

 

Because the sexual partner is using empathy every time they don't initiate sex, every time they feel like touching their partner sexually but don't, every time they stuff down their feelings of rejection and remind themselves of all the other good things about the relationship, in order their partner doesn't have to deal with it,so some signs of reciprocal effort now and again would feel good. 

To me that sounds like it’s more a general characteristic of the relationship.  In other words, if the couple (or more) regularly talks about their concerns, burdens, etc., and gets something positive out of commiserating/offering support/whatever it is they do, mismatches in sexuality would be a logical and reasonable thing to add to that cycle/process/list of topics (and something it might feel strange or bad to have excluded).

 

If that type of conversation (about anything) is not a regular part of how the partners interact, though, having it just about sex would likely feel unnatural.

 

Also, it probably depends on how the topics are handled and received.  Commiserating over things that aren’t ideal is different from accusing, guilt-tripping, etc.

 

I’m not meaning to imply you do the latter; just noting that not everyone is gracious when discussing things they wish their partners would do differently.

[Telecaster68]

Just now, ryn2 said:

hat sounds like it’s more a general characteristic of the relationship

... And the people saying 'no discussion is necessary' would seem to be implying that more generally of the relationship too. 

 

[ryn2]

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

... And the people saying 'no discussion is necessary' would seem to be implying that more generally of the relationship too. 

 

Agreed.  But different relationship and communication styles work (or don’t) for different people.

 

Some posters view having to repeatedly run through a list of their own shortcomings as punitive, infantilizing, pointless, etc.  That doesn’t sound like the type of discussion you are envisioning... but it may be the way discussions about sexuality have gone in their relationships.

[Telecaster68]

Agreed, and I'm informed by the absence / blanket refusal of any communication in my own situation. 

[ryn2]

Your ex does sound less affected by what’s going on around her than many people are.

[Telecaster68]

8 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Your ex does sound less affected by what’s going on around her than many people are.

That would be an understatement. 

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

That would be an understatement. 

Whereas mine was apparently acutely aware but lacking the tools/skills/whatever to react reasonably.

[Philip027]

Quote

I don't mean insisting on endless circling discussions, but at the same time, a one-and-done announcement that Sex Is Over by the asexual, with absolutely no follow up, explanation or sympathy that this is actually a fundamental change in the relationship, and the subject is now closed since information has been imparted, isn't acceptable either.

Nobody says it has to be acceptable (trust me, aces in particular know they cannot outright say something like that to their partners without the majority of them ultimately wanting to leave), but you can't exactly say they refused to communicate on the issue.  They said their piece.

 

It's the people who seem fine with sex at first, gradually dip to not having any, never offer any explanation as to the change in behavior, and dodge or shoot down without fail any attempts of yours to address it... those are the people that you can say have not communicated.

[MrDane]

11 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Communication is more than just a transfer of facts though.

Exactly! And sometimes you figure things out in the process of talking about it. Perhaps lending an ear, once again, to stuff that is important or interesting or just on the mind of your partner is worth it. 

[nanogretchen4]

Once two people are in a mixed orientation relationship, the four options are: they find a mutually tolerable sexual compromise, the sexual gives up sex forever, they practice ethical nonmonogamy, or they break up. If they choose compromise and then the asexual partner says the current compromise is not working for them, that is most certainly not the end of the conversation. If they are proposing a new compromise, they have to talk until it is clear to both partners what the new compromise consists of and whether that is actually acceptable to both partners. And then if someone realizes it is not actually working for them or if someone isn't following through on what they agreed to, it has to be discussed again. It's pretty crazy to think you can make a one time statement about a huge problem in your relationship and then never have to deal with the problem again.

 

If the asexual says no sexual contact of any sort ever again that is their right, but it certainly doesn't solve the relationship problem or end the conversation. Instead it just shifts the topic of conversation to which of the other three options they are going to go with. Much as many asexuals would like to, they can't just dictate that their partner will give up sex forever and continue the relationship as usual, without ever discussing the matter again. The sexual partner has every right to say nope to that option. If they go with the ethical nonmonogamy option, that will require a lot of further discussion and ongoing communication.

 

So what if they decide to end the relationship? First, both partners are responsible for the relationship ending, since by that time each of them has ruled out at least one of the other three options. Both partners should put on their grownup pants and acknowledge that they are ending their relationship and work out the logistics. If the couple don't have children then there may eventually come a day when all the property has been divided and they have established separate lives and they never have to communicate again. If they have children together, they will always have to communicate, and that's just how it is.

[ryn2]

All of that assumes the couple communicates effectively, though.  In cases where one partner is reluctant to bring up difficult topics, either partner aggressively rejects things that feel threatening, etc., issues can go undiscussed a long time.

 

A mixed relationship with a difficult-topic-avoider can end up being one where the other partner is legitimately unaware their solution isn’t acceptable.

[nanogretchen4]

Most mixed orientation relationships exist because the asexual partner did not give timely clear communication about their orientation. Sometimes the asexual genuinely didn't know, but with time more people are realizing that they are asexual even before their first relationship. Nevertheless, asexual with asexual relationships seem to be rare, and how to find them has never been a hot topic of discussion on AVEN. Instead I see lots of posts from young people who know they are asexual and want advice because they have recently started a relationship with a partner who doesn't know their orientation. Frankly it looks like difficult topic avoidance is some people's entire relationship strategy.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

All of that assumes the couple communicates effectively, though.  In cases where one partner is reluctant to bring up difficult topics, either partner aggressively rejects things that feel threatening, etc., issues can go undiscussed a long time.

 

A mixed relationship with a difficult-topic-avoider can end up being one where the other partner is legitimately unaware their solution isn’t acceptable.

Often times I see it more presented as:

 

 

1)  The ace is avoiding because not comfortable with the topic at all. Which, they should discuss at some point, it is a we issue. 

 

2) The sexual is bitter and trying to push a compromise when the ace isnt OK with it, through various threats and the like. Not a good tactic. Not going to succeed. 

 

3) The two have already talked and reached the best solution they can over years of working through it but the sexual still wants the ace to basically go "I know you are unhappy with who I am, I'm sorry and wish I could be different so i could give you what you actually want" at least semi-regularly for seemingly the rest of their lives, with no changes in mind, just frequently verbally acknowledging their partner isnt happy because of them with no other purpose to it. 

 

I agree the couple should talk and reach a middle ground together. And, if the compromise needs adjusting, talk again. I dont think anyone owes their partner apologizing for being who they are for the rest of their lives though. 

 

It would be like if my ex was made to tell me "I know you want to cuddle, I cant enjoy it, Im sorry I cant give you that" every month or so. Why make him acknowledge what we both know? Make him feel guilty and keep that guilt at the forefront of his mind for all time. Just..  I could not even fathom asking it of a person I was with. 

 

Personally, if a partner wanted that of me I would break up. Because that would just be telling me you cannot be happy with me and need me to know it and never forget. And that would be a very unhealthy dynamic for me. 

 

But, apparently other people need that sort of constant acknowledging unchangable issues. And if it works for both fine, people have different needs. But, that is another level of compatibility. Because to people like me, that would be complete destruction of interest in a relationship. 

[ryn2]

Agreed.  My point was just that sometimes - in my case, yes, but not just in my case from talking to others - the initial discussion never happens... or it happens, but no one confirms the correct message was conveyed.  Before people claim their needs are understood and uncaringly unmet, they should first stop and ask themselves 1) did I actually communicate my needs, or did I assume “anyone would know?”, and 2) if I attempted to communicate my needs, did my partner and I really come to a complete, accurate understanding?

 

In my case, in my last relationship, I had always initiated sex.  Over time, I stopped initiating.  There was no discussion.  My partner at the time (who had ongoing ED; we *had* discussed that and failed to identify a workable treatment) very occasionally said “I can’t tell when you want to have sex.”  In hindsight I realize those were attempts to initiate sex, but when they happened I took them at face value and promised to let him know if I did want to have sex.  There was still no discussion.

 

I was left thinking “cool, this is handy!  We lucked out and found in each other someone who can have continue a loving, romantic relationship after the sex stops.”

 

He was apparently left thinking “how long can I endure this before I’m justified in leaving?”

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, nanogretchen4 said:

Most mixed orientation relationships exist because the asexual partner did not give timely clear communication about their orientation. Sometimes the asexual genuinely didn't know, but with time more people are realizing that they are asexual even before their first relationship. Nevertheless, asexual with asexual relationships seem to be rare, and how to find them has never been a hot topic of discussion on AVEN. Instead I see lots of posts from young people who know they are asexual and want advice because they have recently started a relationship with a partner who doesn't know their orientation. Frankly it looks like difficult topic avoidance is some people's entire relationship strategy.

I can’t speak to how it is for the younger people but I’ve never met a single ace person of any gender locally (afaik).  I have one ace irl friend (not local).

 

I’m not sure people are seeking out mixed relationships so much as meeting people they find themselves liking and then not knowing what to do.

[nanogretchen4]

If an asexual is seeking a relationship, and they know the person they are seeking a relationship with is sexual, they are seeking a mixed relationship. If an asexual is seeking relationships in general but is not seeking other asexuals to have those relationships with, they are seeking mixed relationships.

[MrDane]

4 hours ago, ryn2 said:

All of that assumes the couple communicates effectively, though.  In cases where one partner is reluctant to bring up difficult topics, either partner aggressively rejects things that feel threatening, etc., issues can go undiscussed a long time.

 

A mixed relationship with a difficult-topic-avoider can end up being one where the other partner is legitimately unaware their solution isn’t acceptable.

I hear you. 

[MrDane]

1 hour ago, nanogretchen4 said:

If an asexual is seeking a relationship, and they know the person they are seeking a relationship with is sexual, they are seeking a mixed relationship. If an asexual is seeking relationships in general but is not seeking other asexuals to have those relationships with, they are seeking mixed relationships.

I dont think anybody is seeking a relationship because it is mixed, when it comes to sexuality. You fall in love, you click, you feel like you fit, you feel lonely without... 

 

who would write that in their description on a dating site? I love travelling the world and I have a dream about going around the world by sea with my partner. If you DON’T share the same vision, please contact me. Best if you are afraid of water and cant swim.

 

I guess, what you say @nanogretchen4 is that they should be aware of that awkward mix, before constructing the relationship, rigth!?

[nanogretchen4]

Look, if you know there is a 99% chance that a randomly chosen partner has an incompatible sexual orientation yet you randomly choose partners anyway, what is the predictable outcome of your actions?

[Philip027]

Quote

Nevertheless, asexual with asexual relationships seem to be rare,

No kidding.  It's because aces are rare.  Many of us have never even knowingly met another one in meatspace and many are left to feel broken and that nobody else is like how they are.

 

Mine only worked because my partner and I are down with LDR.  For the people who aren't into that, it suddenly gets a lot harder, particularly if you live in an area where as far as you can tell, nobody else is like you.

 

A lot of aces who want a relationship don't feel like they have any *choice* but to look to sexual partners and find out through practice if they can bear it, with wildly varying degrees of success.