Depression: Sexual with Asexual Partner

[Moodge]

Hi I'm a cis woman. I consider myself demi-sexual. My partner is non-binary and identifies as asexual. We've been dating for almost 5 years and I have been struggling a lot with our relationship lately.

 

When we first started dating, we would have sex at least once a month. Neither of us had had sex before. I was very happy with this, as well as just cuddling, kissing, and "making out". Usually alcohol was involved. After the first year or so, however, this became much less frequent. I started talking to my partner about feel unloved and unwanted as they became increasingly withdrawn. Eventually they told me they were asexual and I'm still trying to better understand them. I asked them if they were okay still having sex even though they were asexual and they told me that they knew it was important to me and that it made them happy to make me happy. I felt better after that and I was happier for awhile.

 

We've had sex less and less and any conversations about it usually turn into arguments. In April, my partner got top surgery. I hoped they would maybe be more into sex after this, and that they would feel more comfortable in their body. Our sex life got even worse. I think we've only had sex 3 times since April. Whenever I bring it up they have started avoiding the subject. We talked about it it almost two months ago and they told me that sex is gross and that they don't want it as frequently. The few times we have had sex since April we're really rushed and painful for me and I've started not desiring sex from them as much either.  

 

I'm not really sure where to proceed from here. I love them and can't imagine my life without them, but I've been getting increasingly depressed about our sex life and their unwillingness to talk about it. 

 

[Grimalkin]

Here's the thing- there's going to be a lot of sympathy here for your partner, and rightly so, because they're going through a lot of self-discovery. They're figuring out what they're comfortable with, in their life and relationship and their own body.

 

But this is about you right now. And you're not feeling fulfilled in your sex life right now. And what you've got now? It's probably not going to get better.

 

It sounds like you've talked about it a lot, and over time they've just shut it down more and more. They outright told you two months ago that sex is gross to them. They don't want it. They probably won't ever want it. And when they begrudgingly have sex to "satisfy" you, it's rushed and painful and more unpleasant for you than if you'd just not had sex at all.

 

Five years is a lot of time with a person. They're probably fantastic in every other way. But sexual compatibility is a big thing, and they seem unwilling to compromise. Would you be happy with how things are for another five years? Ten? The rest of your life?

 

Sexual compatibility is important. You're not shallow for wanting someone to match your libido, whatever level it might be.

[anisotrophic]

I'm sorry @Moodge. It's tough to know what to say about a partner that doesn't want to communicate. I guess one observation even that situation can have multiple causes – someone might be avoiding confronting something that scares them... on the other hand, they might just have trouble communicating.

I think... if I were in your shoes, I'd look into an ace/queer/relationship-savvy therapist – for at least myself, to figure out how to go forward. It's worth thinking about whether this is a relationship that should end, if some condition or change isn't occurring – and if so, how.

I don't have any enby insights. (It's my partner that IDs as ace, but he's been pretty fine with continued intimacy since coming to that – I do have to carefully ask for it, though. I do hope to take T, and wonder how that will affect things.)

But ... there is a ton of NB / ace overlap, and the "Gender Discussion" subforum has a lot of folks in that territory. (I might be the only sexual enby?) So, if you wanted some insight into how these might interact for ace enby folks, I think you might try posting a question to that subforum. Understanding your partner doesn't preclude potentially wanting to move on; it may even help you think through it.

And welcome to AVEN! Here is a traditional welcome cake slice:

[Philip027]

Quote

their unwillingness to talk about it

Your partner probably feels like there isn't much left to talk about.  They made their position clear and at this point it would just feel like repeating what they've told you over and over again, which is usually a tiresome thing to do about anything, let alone about what's probably an uncomfortable subject for them to begin with.

[NickyTannock]

Welcome to AVEN!

 

I'm sorry, I don't know what advice to offer. I've never had or desired either sex or a relationship.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake,

[anisotrophic]

15 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Your partner probably feels like there isn't much left to talk about.  They made their position clear and at this point it would just feel like repeating what they've told you over and over again, which is usually a tiresome thing to do about anything, let alone about what's probably an uncomfortable subject for them to begin with.

While someone might feel their actions "speak louder than words" it sure sounds to me like they haven't done their part to communicate. It doesn't sound like a clean re-evaluation was clearly stated to update the claim that it "made them happy to make me happy". And I think making a misleading claim means someone is responsible for owning that it was wrong – even if they didn't know it at the time.

And they could also be talking about breaking up, or other options for their partner, if they respect their partner's sexuality. It's not appropriate to make a claim as they did, and then not follow through, and refuse to discuss what is going to happen instead.

[Philip027]

Quote

While someone might feel their actions "speak louder than words" it sure sounds to me like they haven't done their part to communicate.

>We talked about it it almost two months ago and they told me that sex is gross and that they don't want it as frequently.

 

That communicates enough, IMO.  Of course, it's still up to the OP whether or not this is something they feel like tolerating.

 

Quote

And I think making a misleading claim means someone is responsible for owning that it was wrong – even if they didn't know it at the time.

I agree, but I still think there's not much more to be said about it than what was said already.  Even if they were like "okay, I admit it, I was wrong" it doesn't actually fix the underlying issue.

[anisotrophic]

Okay, fair enough – it's unclear to me how deep that particular conversation was in the arc here – as the relationship and sexuality within it are an issue that require lots of communication in any mixed relationship.

Thus, discussion could have meant: getting to a conclusion of "breaking up". It's not respectful to avoid discussion because one doesn't want to be the "bad guy", thereby putting the onus of "calling for a break up" on the other partner. As it was a first time (sex) relationship for both, both partners may be inexperienced with making that move, and it's dragging it out unnecessarily.

 

@Moodge there are other fish in the sea. Honest! You can try to stay friends, even.

[Philip027]

Quote

thereby putting the onus of "calling for a break up" on the other partner.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect the party that's actually dissatisfied in a relationship to be the one responsible for calling it quits.  We're all adults here and can speak for ourselves without needing to make choices for the other person, no?

[anisotrophic]

3 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect the party that's actually dissatisfied in a relationship to be the one responsible for calling it quits.  We're all adults here and can speak for ourselves without needing to make choices for the other person, no?

I'm not a fan of someone avoiding conversations with the effect of forcing another person to act (more) unilaterally. There are nicer ways to go about difficult transitions.

[Philip027]

And I'm not a fan of having to repeat myself over and over just because the other person didn't like the original response and is hoping for something different, so...

[Sally]

4 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Your partner probably feels like there isn't much left to talk about.  They made their position clear and at this point it would just feel like repeating what they've told you over and over again, which is usually a tiresome thing to do about anything, let alone about what's probably an uncomfortable subject for them to begin with.

yes, exactly this.  

[uhtred]

On 12/5/2018 at 2:15 PM, Moodge said:

snip

I'm not really sure where to proceed from here. I love them and can't imagine my life without them, but I've been getting increasingly depressed about our sex life and their unwillingness to talk about it. 

 

I'm afraid that this is something you need to think about for yourself. For many people sex is a vital part of their happiness and of any romantic relationship.   Only you know how important it is to you - but be honest with yourself to yourself.

 

If you think you would be happier overall leaving (and for many people in this situation I think that is the case), then I believe you have every right to do so. 

[Telecaster68]

7 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Your partner probably feels like there isn't much left to talk about.  They made their position clear and at this point it would just feel like repeating what they've told you over and over again, which is usually a tiresome thing to do about anything, let alone about what's probably an uncomfortable subject for them to begin with.

Don't you think your partner's misery would be worth some time and sympathy? 

 

OP... 

 

I was in your position, without the NB factor. (SPOILER: we've split up now, after years of what seemed to me to be half assed minimal-needed-to-make-me-shut-up-for-now 'efforts' from my wife, and a general incomprehension about why no sex might be a problem).

 

The bottom line is this. No sex might - might - be solvable, but no communication isn't, and for your own sake it'll be better to force the issue and get it over with. Nobody owes each other sex, but partners do owe each other communication, and not just transmitting facts. Actual sharing of emotional states. 

[Philip027]

Quote

Don't you think your partner's misery would be worth some time and sympathy? 

If it's already become clear it won't solve the root issue (person A wants sex with person B, person B does not want sex), what's the point?  All it is going to accomplish is serve as a continuous reminder to person B that no matter how good of a partner they might be or how hard they might try otherwise, they can't provide this one thing that person A wants, and therefore person B is a failure.  Nothing groundbreaking has been achieved, the status quo remains the same.

 

Would you feel more or less like going in to work every day if your boss regularly reminded you of everything you do that's a disappointment to them?

[Telecaster68]

3 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Quote

Don't you think your partner's misery would be worth some time and sympathy? 

If it's already become clear it won't solve the root issue (person A wants sex with person B, person B does not want sex), what's the point?

Making them feel not quite so shit about themselves. 

 

4 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Would you feel more or less like going in to work every day if your boss regularly reminded you of everything you do that's a disappointment to them?

But this isn't an employer/employee relationship. 

[Philip027]

Quote

Making them feel not quite so shit about themselves.

I fail to see how anyone would be made to feel less like shit about themselves when continuing to press a matter that won't be budged.  Person A will just get more frustrated, person B is once again reminded of their failings.  Where are the plus sides, here?

 

Quote

But this isn't an employer/employee relationship. 

Concept is still pretty much exactly the same.  The boss is doing about as much good harping on their employees' failings as the partner to a sex-repulsed person harping on them about how they won't give them sex.

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

I fail to see how anyone would be made to feel less like shit about themselves when continuing to press a matter that won't be budged.  Person A will just get more frustrated, person B is once again reminded of their failings.  Where are the plus sides, here?

 

Concept is still pretty much exactly the same.  The boss is doing about as much good harping on their employees' failings as the partner to a sex-repulsed person harping on them about how they won't give them sex.

They'd feel better because they feel understood and accepted as a person, whereas refusing to talk about it implies 'I have no interest or concern about your wellbeing'. 

 

The big difference is that the boss (presumably) has no exclusive emotional concern about the employee, regardless of how it affects them as a boss. They might care about them in a generalised way, or about their ability to be a good employee, but not whether they're happy or sad in their own right,to the extent, say, it affects their sleeping patterns. 

[Homer]

6 hours ago, anisotropic said:

I'm not a fan of someone avoiding conversations with the effect of forcing another person to act (more) unilaterally. There are nicer ways to go about difficult transitions.

To me it looks like a parameter has changed. The "having sex to make the partner happy" part isn't there anymore - the partner clearly stated that it's gross to them. It's up to OP to determine whether that's okay for them or not (and therefore it's up to them to announce their decision).

[Philip027]

Quote

They'd feel better because they feel understood and accepted as a person,

From what I have seen around here, that's not usually how these repetitive, tiresome conversations about lack of sex play out.

[Telecaster68]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

From what I have seen around here, that's not usually how these repetitive, tiresome conversations about lack of sex play out.

They're repetitive and tiresome to you. They're significantly less tiresome and repetitive to the sexual, because they're some degree of reassurance that their partner actually gives a fuck about them, despite their underlying intransigence over lack of sex - precisely because you (generically) find them tiresome and repetitive but do them anyway. That's how caring about someone works, isn't it? 

[Philip027]

1) If lack of sex/desire is all it takes to make you think someone might not "give a fuck" about you, I call into question just how substantial the rest of the relationship was to begin with

2) One knowingly seeking "reassurance" in a way that can only serve to make the other person feel like an ass (by needlessly reminding them, again, what they don't bring to the table, when it's something they likely already fuckin know) kinda makes one an ass.  I think the whole "caring about someone" point is already out the door at this point if this is the position one takes

[Ceebs]

7 hours ago, anisotropic said:

I'm not a fan of someone avoiding conversations with the effect of forcing another person to act (more) unilaterally. There are nicer ways to go about difficult transitions.

Yes, this is a fucking nightmare and I find it extremely inconsiderate and selfish. I've had an off-and-on romantic connection for a handful of years now with someone who can't seem to figure out that silence and avoidance are hurtful and crazy-making, and then acts taken aback and defensive and gets accusatory when I'm the one who ends up forcing communication on serious issues (not talking about sex specifically in this case, but that's not even relevant; the pattern and problem are the same). And then you feel bad for being the one who always has to initiate discussion. In my case it was already stressful enough dealing with no communication, but when someone doesn't like finally being confronted and acts like you're the asshole for not being ok with not talking about important things, it gets really difficult and exhausting and it fucks with your self-worth. People who think it's better to be quiet than have difficult discussions are toxic. It demonstrates a lack of consideration for your wellbeing, and ultimately you have to decide if you're ok being in a relationship with someone who appears not to give a shit about what their refusal to communicate effectively does to you.

 

Like I said, sex was not the issue in my case, but everything I've said is certainly applicable to discussions about sex. Silence is never a good way to handle relationship problems.

[Telecaster68]

13 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

1) If lack of sex/desire is all it takes to make you think someone might not "give a fuck" about you, I call into question just how substantial the rest of the relationship was to begin with

For sexuals, lack of being desired is as big a deal as lack of conversation would be. Are you saying this makes our relationships insubstantial, because you're getting into elitism there?

 

15 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

One knowingly seeking "reassurance" in a way that can only serve to make the other person feel like an ass

In other words, the asexual's feelings count, their partner's don't. This is precisely the message sexual partners take from the 'not talking about it' approach, and, it seems, rightly.

[Blondbear]

I can't even understand why you want to stay in that relationship.

And no, love is not usually enough. Neither worth it. 
If a relationship makes you depressed it is not worth, period. That's it, whoever you find in a new relationship would be better than what you have now, which is something plain bad.

[Philip027]

Quote

I've had an off-and-on romantic connection for a handful of years now with someone who can't seem to figure out that silence and avoidance are hurtful and crazy-making, and then acts taken aback and defensive and gets accusatory when I'm the one who ends up forcing communication on serious issues (not talking about sex specifically in this case, but that's not even relevant; the pattern and problem are the same).

I don't know exactly what kinds of issues these are, but I think there's a notable difference between someone who just can't deal with ever communicating with the other person about any serious issue (which is obviously a big problem in general, not even just to do with sex), and someone who's already communicated to the other person about where they stand on an issue (for instance, they can no longer stand having sex) yet the other person continues to bring it up anyway, presumably in the hopes that they'll possibly say something different if they bring it up enough times.

 

The former person stifles communication, which is something that would obviously be difficult for relationship-making in general.

The latter person just has a nag for a partner.  They've communicated already; it's the other person that's not listening.

 

Quote

For sexuals, lack of being desired is as big a deal as lack of conversation would be. Are you saying this makes our relationships insubstantial, because you're getting into elitism there?

I stand by what I said.  If me thinking that basing someone's level of care about you on whether or not they'll have sex with you is shortsighted (as well as indicative of other gaping holes elsewhere in the relationship) makes me elitist... then yep, I guess I'm elitist then.

 

Whatever sorts of extra conclusions you want to draw from that are you own, though.

 

Quote

In other words, the asexual's feelings count, their partner's don't. This is precisely the message sexual partners take from the 'not talking about it' approach, and, it seems, rightly.

Funny, because I was getting the exact opposite impression from you.  That only the sexual's feelings count, and they reserve the right to needlessly press an issue that will accomplish nothing other than to make their asexual partner uncomfortable.

 

That's the message I got from the whole "keep talking about it, even though they've already made it clear where they stand" approach, anyway.

[Telecaster68]

9 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

They've communicated already; it's the other person that's not listening.

Communication is more than just a transfer of facts though.

[Ceebs]

12 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

I don't know exactly what kinds of issues these are, but I think there's a notable difference between someone who just can't deal with ever communicating with the other person about any serious issue (which is obviously a big problem in general, not even just to do with sex), and someone who's already communicated to the other person about where they stand on an issue (for instance, they can no longer stand having sex) yet the other person continues to bring it up anyway, presumably in the hopes that they'll possibly say something different if they bring it up enough times.

 

The former person stifles communication, which is something that would obviously be difficult for relationship-making in general.

The latter person just has a nag for a partner.  They've communicated already; it's the other person that's not listening.

Well I am talking about specific things, not necessarily a whole, but don't intend to go into detail for the sake of discretion. At any rate, I was more agreeing with anisotropic than speaking directly to the specifics of the OP's situation. Obviously if their partner has said everything they intend to and the OP is miserable and there's nothing left to be said or done, they should think about ending the relationship. 

[Philip027]

Quote

Obviously if their partner has said everything they intend to and the OP is miserable and there's nothing left to be said or done, they should think about ending the relationship.  

Yep, agreed there.

[Ceebs]

Oh but also, I meant to add and then forgot -- someone else already mentioned it, but if you think there's something worth salvaging here and it's a relationship you don't want to give up on yet, THERAPY. Very worth giving a go. Couples would be ideal, but also it sounds like your partner may have things worth working on alone, and perhaps you could do with some independent guidance and support as well. Something along those lines for both of you could be helpful.