Have understanding; need help with emotional support

[lifeisntfair]

(Sorry for the giant-text posting before! Cut and paste went berserk on me!)

 

[When I first went to write this post, I went on and on forever. I want to spill the whole convoluted story. It’s all relevant to the situation, but perhaps not *necessary* to post for support. So this is the severely cut version. I still apologize for the length!]

I actually understand Asexuality pretty well, I think—It’s just suddenly come home to roost and I’m looking for help dealing with being in a relationship that’s suddenly no longer sexual.

 

It’s hardly a new situation for these forums, but it is to me, and I feel the need for support from people who understand. So I’m just outright asking for it. (Yes, this is self-centered, but that’s why it’s being posted on this specific board.)

 

My wife and I have had a very long and complicated relationship over 17 years.  (I’ll do what I can to skip to the end.)

 

The only two constants in those 17 years are that we have cared deeply and yet more deeply, for each other (and eventually both recognized it as love), and that we’ve lived together the whole time—first as roommates, then as a committed platonic couple, and finally as a sexual (and eventually married) couple.

 

She identified as straight, and continued to do so for several years after I admitted I was in love with her. She then realized she was so deeply committed to our close friendship, that she wanted to spend the rest of her life living with me.

 

However she was not interested in lesbian sex, and wanted to find some arrangement that could result in her finding and marrying a man so she could have meaningful straight sex in a long-term relationship, while also living with me. I never did see how that was going to work, but she was sure on the “forever with me” part, even if she couldn’t find a way to keep (straight) sex in her life, so I was in (better to have a promise of part of her than lose her completely).

 

After two years of this she wanted to try lesbian sex to see if she could enjoy it. She loved it! Problem solved! We were a happy, sexual lesbian couple for good.

 

But after about a year she stopped being as interested in touching me, as she was in being touched herself. Seven years of issues with sex followed. Throughout it all she remained eager to receive sex, although she rarely initiated, and she touched me less and less. She always maintained that she was very much sexually attracted to me, to the point where a lot of fights ended up revolving around my self-esteem issues and her hurt and anger that I wouldn’t believe her sincerity about wanting to have sex with me.

 

Love has never been an issue. ♥️ But her actions regarding wanting sex with me (rather than just from me) never matched her words, and I spent years frustrated and confused: my self esteem taking a real beating, while she becoming more and more frustrated that my self-esteem issues meant she had to keep convincing me she still found me sexually desirable.

 

Over the past year or so, I finally largely gave up initiating sex at all, and she never did so—even though she very much enjoyed being sexually touched and was always frustrated by my eternally re-emerging doubts.

 

Over the past few months she asked for more romance in our sex but wasn’t in the mood the one time I managed to pull together a whole romantic seduction thing. (Hey, sometimes you’re just not in the mood—it happens.)

 

A few weeks ago she asked for a specific “heavy-petting/sexual touching but no sex” level between “naked snuggling” (which we both enjoy frequently) and “sex”. She said she didn’t always have the energy to want to be touched until orgasm, but wanted sexual touch both ways. I readily agreed.

 

Two days later it occurred to me that she might be a romantic gray-A.

 

Two days ago, a fight started when she got angry at an off-hand comment I made that implied she didn’t want much sex with me. She was furious that I was on about this *again*. 

 

After resolving the misunderstandings, I mentioned that I had been thinking she might be gray-A. For the first time she agreed with me, saying she’d only just had the thought during our discussion, but was sure she still felt romantic love towards me and asked “why can’t there be a romantic thing instead of just sexual?” So I explained the split model to her. Then I sent her links to AVEN and this forum.

 

As of this morning she’s still working through it, but is fairly sure she’s less gray-A and more more straight-up Ace.

 

So. 

 

I’d like to say I was relieved to finally have a solid answer to her ambivalence about touching me sexually, and an answer that didn’t have anything to do with my desirability. And I’m sure I will someday. But this was one of the times I wanted to be wrong.

 

It means that the  “battered self-esteem/interest in sex but no sign of interest in me/why won’t you believe that I want you?”  roller coaster is over. But it also means the end of hope that it will ever change/get better for me.

 

As far as I know she still loves being touched sexually herself, but can happily do without it indefinitely. And she now openly and honestly has no interest in touching me. Which means the end of getting to touch her, which I loved, as well. (Between the lack of reciprocation already being so painful for so long and her guilt, exclusively one-way touching from here on out is not going to work.)

 

I know enough to have suggested it to her in the first place & to not bring up “objections” to it. (I.e., She is very verbally sexual, liking both to describe and hear planned sexual activities for us; she reads largely romance novels and straight-up erotica; she masturbates; she has always enjoyed receiving sex; she used to enjoy initiating/giving sex as well; when she does actually reciprocate she is enthusiastic and has always says she loves it; has always been firm in telling me she was specifically sexually attracted to me [she _believed_ it all along, making all of this more of a shock for her than for me]; etc.)—although all those things certainly confused the hell out of the matter for years.

 

The irony that I had to provide the rope to finally hang this sexual relationship I’ve wanted more from so desperately for so long, is just the icing on the cake.

 

Most importantly/painfully, I’m trying to deal with the knowledge that she does not and really never has sexually desired me, and (because I don’t want anyone else) I will now never experience someone feeling that way about me, nor be able to express that to anyone else.

 

She enthusiastically came up with adventurous angles on sex I never would have, and I was very excited to try them. But we never quite seemed to get around to trying them out—and now we never will.

 

She’s actually in every other way one of the most sexual—and sensual—people I’ve ever known. And now her world is being overturned by the realization that still she wants all of it—except the actual partnered sex.

 

Now I’m left to deal with my finally crushed dreams *and* with needing to support her, at least in the short term, through her truly crippling guilt over the whole thing. (Which is why I’m here for some support for me.)

 

Note that:

• She is the love of my life, we have been together now for 17 largely-happy years, and breaking up/divorce is not on the table for either of us.
• I am not interested in having sex with anyone else, so polyamory isn’t a viable option.
• I do not want “obligation sex” or “pity sex”, even we could work it out logistically (and she agrees this would be bad)—for me it’s not about having an orgasm, it’s about wanting both of us to have them together
• We are already (and will continue to be) involved in a lot of sensual cuddling and snuggling (she’s still very much wanting that).
• I long ago learned (between desperation and not wanting to pressure her) how to take care of my own purely sexual needs by myself.

 

Given all that, does anyone have any suggestions on how to cope emotionally with

• the knowledge that I will now never be able to experience someone sexually desiring me or experience any sex involving that component
• the strong likelihood of never having any kind of partnered sex again (I’m finding a wide emotional difference between “I want it too/I want to put more effort into it and make it better and more frequent for both of us” and “I don’t want any/no more”, even if very little is actually changing physically)
• both not being touched and not being able to touch anyone in a sexual way again 
• balancing the line (as a sexual, passionate person) between “lots of naked sensual touching and cuddling” and “no sex” (admittedly, this is once she’s had a chance to figure out that line for herself).

 

I’ve already been having a hell of a time dealing with the elusiveness of these issues for years. Now, facing an abrupt turn around that means all hope for improvement (from my standpoint) is dead, I’m realizing how much I was getting by on that hope.

[anisotrophic]

1 hour ago, lifeisntfair said:

It means that the  “battered self-esteem/interest in sex but no sign of interest in me/why won’t you believe that I want you?”  roller coaster is over. But it also means the end of hope that it will ever change/get better for me.

@lifeisntfair I'm so sorry. When I faced the same conclusion with my partner of ~15 years, I was sobbing on and off for weeks... and continued to be regularly despondent for months. He'd hold me and comfort me. There were pints of ice cream, and hours-long walks I took alone, struggling with many different emotions.

 

I brought it to him, too (his past seemed to indicate he was vaguely bi, but....) A therapist I meant to see for gender issues suggested it by the end of our second session... the topic of that therapy changed pretty quickly.

 

The LGBTQIA+ therapist was enormously helpful for helping me get through this.

 

You're grieving and it's awful.

 

I don't know if it's made more miserable to grieve for a thing that never was. And it felt very isolating -- I hope you can find some solace here.

 

It took me six months to feel happy again. I feel happier than I ever did before. But it took a long time, a lot of tears, a lot of comfort from him (I don't care if that's ironic; there was never any shortage of love).

 

I had to change. It was hard. I feel much better now, happier than I was before all of this went down.

 

1 hour ago, lifeisntfair said:

I do not want “obligation sex” or “pity sex”, even we could work it out logistically

I pushed myself through this aversion to adapt. I'm not sure I could have been happy without having done this; sexual attraction and intimacy are very entangled with how I experience love.

 

I don't know that I can say "you should". But I think you, possibly both of you, might benefit from counseling with ace-aware therapists. My partner and I both did that, different therapists... mostly it was me that needed it, but I think it helped a bit for him too.

 

1 hour ago, lifeisntfair said:

the knowledge that I will now never be able to experience someone sexually desiring me

This still gets me to me. I've tried to bury the thoughts; that tactic worked well for months. It feels like there's a zombie trying to drag itself out if the earth, I can't seem to kill it in the end. Recently my therapist suggested I do some sorta Buddhist thing and accept them and set them aside. Not sure this is working either.

 

(But also, I hate to admit this but, according to my partner, apparently these bouts of ruminating unhappiness get cured with... sex. His own therapist suggested this observation to him... It's embarrassing to realize this seems to be fairly true -- and a reason for me to accept charity sex. I give up. I'm a stupid sexual.)

 

1 hour ago, lifeisntfair said:

I am not interested in having sex with anyone else, so polyamory isn’t a viable option.

He seems to be more interested in me doing this than I am. If it happens, he'll probably need to push me out the door. The idea does help remove a complete hopelessness regarding whether I'll ever experience being desired. But not anytime soon.

 

Besides, personally I wouldn't recommend it as long as you are in this period of grief. By all reports, poly only invites new complexity, without solving existing issues. Best to focus on doing as much as you can to recover a new sense of balance right now.

[uhtred]

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but I don't have anything hopeful to add.  Mismatched sexual interests are just poison to a loving relationship. 

 

I do think it helps when you fully accept that things won't change.  I felt better after I did that - better, but still many times pretty miserable. 

 

What works best really depends on your personality. I love romance, but to me romance without sex is just sort of painful - its like being hungry and walking into a fine restaurant ordering food, looking at the view of the sunset - then leaving before the food arrives.     I like to avoid romantic areas - watching obviously affectionate couples hurts.

 

You can self-medicate with porn.  Some people develop such a porn addiction that they lose interest in sex with their partners.  Maybe in this case that is better?

 

There is also always risk.  You  may not want another sexual partner, but if the opportunity arises, it is *so* tempting. This can happen almost without warning when you realize that a good "friend" might actually be something more. 

 

I wish you luck, and wish I had something more hopeful to say

 

 

[lifeisntfair]

1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

@lifeisntfair I'm so sorry. When I faced the same conclusion with my partner of ~15 years, I was sobbing on and off for weeks... and continued to be regularly despondent for months. He'd hold me and comfort me.

Thanks. It helps to read that other people struggling with the same thing.

 

At his point I think she’s more traumatized by this realization about herself than I am. (But I strongly suspect I’m currently somewhere between denial and “LA LA LA NOT THINKING ABOUT IT!” right now. This situation has hurt off and on for a long time now. I think it will continue to do so for a good while before I can (hopefully) find a way to accept it.)

 

1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

The LGBTQIA+ therapist was enormously helpful for helping me get through this.

i have a therapist who has been with me through most of this, but who I’ve stopped seeing because my remaining problems are things I simply have to accept—there is nothing to be done for them.

 

But I’m thinking that for this change/end of the situation, I may need a few sessions just to vent my feelings without pointlessly hurting her.

 

2 hours ago, anisotropic said:

You're grieving and it's awful.

 

I don't know if it's made more miserable to grieve for a thing that never was. And it felt very isolating -- I hope you can find some solace here.

Me too. And while I would never want to give up the good times we had, I think it’s probably easier not to know.

 

2 hours ago, anisotropic said:

It took me six months to feel happy again. I feel happier than I ever did before. But it took a long time, a lot of tears, a lot of comfort from him (I don't care if that's ironic; there was never any shortage of love).

 

I had to change. It was hard. I feel much better now, happier than I was before all of this went down.

Right now I’m needing to do more comforting of her, because ironically I’ve had much more experience in and a longer time dealing with it than she has.

 

Between us, I’m sure we’ll both find a way through this eventually. It’s just so hard to accept right now.

 

 

I don’t think there’s much workable about “pity sex” for me. (For one thing: for  reasons, she would have to do all of the ‘work’ in the encounter.)

 

Polyamory is not going to work on an emotional level for either of us. (To start with, I don’t want sex without this kind of serious emotional bond, and trying to create another bond like this—if possible at all—would severely damage this one. We’re just neither of us wired for that.

 

I appreciate the support.

[lifeisntfair]

41 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I do think it helps when you fully accept that things won't change.  I felt better after I did that - better, but still many times pretty miserable. 

Yeah, this is pretty much my take on it. I’ve just never been good at really giving up on something or letting it go. And in this case, after years of a regularly shifting situation, I’m afraid it may never be possible to truly give up all lingering hope that someday something might change again. 

 

41 minutes ago, uhtred said:

You can self-medicate with porn.  Some people develop such a porn addiction that they lose interest in sex with their partners.  Maybe in this case that is better?

I do sometimes, but it’s not really helpful for me, because that just isn’t actually what I’m missing, and it ultimately just leaves me cold and missing what I do want even more.

 

41 minutes ago, uhtred said:

There is also always risk.  You  may not want another sexual partner, but if the opportunity arises, it is *so* tempting. This can happen almost without warning when you realize that a good "friend" might actually be something more. 

 

If I haven’t been tempted once in the last 17 years (the last 6 or so of those being increasingly sexually frustrating), I don’t think it’s really likely.

 

i honestly can’t conceive of ever being that open and vulnerable in front of anyone else.

 

41 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I wish you luck, and wish I had something more hopeful to say

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[NickyTannock]

A belated welcome to AVEN!

 

I wish I had suggestions for you, but I've never had or desired either sex or a relationship, so I don't know what to suggest.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake,

[anisotrophic]

On 12/2/2018 at 12:03 AM, lifeisntfair said:

i have a therapist who has been with me through most of this, but who I’ve stopped seeing because my remaining problems are things I simply have to accept—there is nothing to be done for them.

 

But I’m thinking that for this change/end of the situation, I may need a few sessions just to vent my feelings without pointlessly hurting her.

I think... it may take months to reach a new normal. Maybe it depends on the person and situation.

And it might depend on the therapist, or specialty, or history with therapist. I've had many over the years, for depressive issues, and... TBH I think they just encouraged me to cry at them. The one that helped me was a fresh one, and specialized in DBT, which I think meant she challenged me more – for example, asking something like "Why do you need your partner to be attracted to you?"

Sometimes I was a bit angry at the lack of wholesale sympathy! But the world doesn't seem very sympathetic to this experience. Maybe it was good to be challenged...

 

On 12/2/2018 at 12:17 AM, lifeisntfair said:

it’s not really helpful for me, because that just isn’t actually what I’m missing, and it ultimately just leaves me cold and missing what I do want even more.

Yeah, sometimes it feels like drinking salt water when thirsty.

 

On 12/2/2018 at 12:17 AM, lifeisntfair said:

I haven’t been tempted once in the last 17 years (the last 6 or so of those being increasingly sexually frustrating), I don’t think it’s really likely.

I would've said the same two years ago. But after ~14 years together, I was blindsided by falling in love – a year and a half ago. So strange and difficult and wonderful to experience those emotions again, after all this time. But it wasn't appropriate. I'm sure it played a role in precipitating understanding my partner's orientation. But I'm also tired and can't imagine falling in love again any time soon; I certainly don't want to seek it out.

 

Which is to say, it's probably good to know where you and your partner stand on the issue, in advance and hypothetically speaking, in case the unlikely event does happen someday. Not encouraging you to seek it out – but it's also not great to discover oneself belatedly inquiring on the topic. 😕

[lifeisntfair]

On 12/2/2018 at 2:29 PM, MichaelTannock said:

A belated welcome to AVEN!

 

I wish I had suggestions for you, but I've never had or desired either sex or a relationship, so I don't know what to suggest.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake,

 

Wow! That is one heck of a cake!

 

Thanks. 🙂

[SCPDX]

I’ll third (or is it fourth) that acceptance of the situation is very important. For me, acceptance meant acceptance of *all* the possible outcomes (including those I found  undesirable.) 

 

Then I got selfish. This is not about not caring about others, but trying to figure out what *you* want. It also involves taking care of yourself (exercising, eating right, etc.)

 

After that, you can choose the outcome that is best for you and that you can live with. 

 

I’ll add that even after all that, I’m still pretty miserable most of the time, but I’m nowhere near as bad as I was. Feel free to DM me.