LizLianne

Sex favourable ace or demisexual?

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LizLianne

How do others know whether I am demisexual or just sex favourable ace. I know I'm demiromantic, and I've developed romantic attraction in the past to men and women. In a relationship though, at least with a few men, I've either become more sex favourable at least or even develop a desire to sleep with them, largely the sheer intimacy of it. Would I call it sexual attraction I don't know, because when faced with their bits I wouldn't say I'm attracted. But with their clothes on I certainly have an increased intrigue about it, and desire that intimacy that can then turn me on. I don't know if this makes me demisexual or just sex favourable. I usually put myself down as demiromantic asexual who is sex favourable linked with my romantic attraction. However with women I've only ever developed romantic attraction and have never had any desire to have sex with them, ever. It's ironic because I often find women more aesthetically pleasing than men. What are other demisexual and sex favourable aces experiences in this regard? Thanks.

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Agent_Smith

im still figuring out my feelings myself :)

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Ficto.
1 hour ago, LizLianne said:

I usually put myself down as demiromantic asexual who is sex favourable linked with my romantic attraction.

You're saying you enjoy and desire some forms of sexual intimacy as part of romantic intimacy (once romantic attraction has formed),is that right? But what is it that makes you interpret this as 'sex favourable asexuality'? What is it to you that makes this experience different from what sexual people experience to you? 

 

Demisexual means it takes a very long time to form that bond and you're 100% asexual-seeming outside of that bond. However it's a controversial label because it's not uncommon for sexuals to have no interest (no ability to desire) sexual intimacy with someone else unless they have formed an emotional bond with them. I mean, obviously it's rarer but it's not uncommon. 

 

Regarding sex-favourable asexuality that would depend on one's reasons for differentiating oneself from all other sexual people. AVEN itself (in the General FAQ) defines 'sexual attraction' as 'the desire to connect sexually with someone else'. So when someone says they're sex favourable they seem to be saying they desire sexual intimacy which means they're experiencing sex attraction on some level which automatically cancels out the term 'asexual' (without sexual attraction).

 

You can identify however you want, I'm just interested to know what it is that makes you differentiate between 'desiring sex as an aspect of romantic intimacy with someone who turns you on under some circumstances' and 'regular sexual person who experiences the same thing' :o Also note it's common for sexual people to not be attracted to the 'bits' themselves, hah.. for a lot of people it's more about the person and often who they are inside than how their genitals may look!!

 

 

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Philip027

Even though it's not really proper use of the term "favorable", what I interpret "sex favorable" as is that it's someone who is capable of enjoying sex, even though they still don't outright want it with anyone if they're asexual (a lot of people seem to think it isn't possible to enjoy something and still not desire it, but they are nevertheless two different things that aren't inherently connected).  This is as opposed to sex indifference where you don't really care one way or the other, or repulsion where you outright dislike it.

 

Demisexuals (and everyone else on the grey spectrum), on the other hand, will still end up actually desiring it; the conditions just have to be right for it to happen.

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Ficto.
14 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

what I interpret "sex favorable" as is that it's someone who is capable of enjoying sex, even though they still don't outright want it with anyone if they're asexual (a lot of people seem to think it isn't possible to enjoy something and still not desire it, but they are nevertheless two different things that aren't inherently connected).

Around here it's more that people do 100% accept someone can enjoy the physical feelings of sex, but they still won't have any desire to actively initiate it or seek sex as a result of that pleasure. It's once someone says 'I enjoy it enough that I do actively want to have it for my own pleasure' (as opposed to 'I enjoy the feelings but don't care if it never happens. I just do it for my partner') that the issues start. Once you enjoy it enough that you actually want to have it specifically for sexual and/or emotional pleasure, you're suddenly no different than anyone else who actively desires sex for their own pleasure: It's the same thing!

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MichaelTannock

@Ficto. I don't understand the issue.

I've never had or desired sex, but AVEN's definition of Asexuality is that it is an absence of Sexual Attraction, and that Sexual Attraction leads to the desire to have sex with a specific person.
Meaning if you're having sex for your own pleasure and not because you find your partner sexually attractive, then you'd still be Asexual.

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Philip027

If you desire sex with someone, that's sexual attraction.  You can't really have one without the other.

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Ficto.
15 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

@Ficto. I don't understand the issue.

I've never had or desired sex, but AVEN's definition of Asexuality is that it is an absence of Sexual Attraction, and that Sexual Attraction leads to the desire to have sex with a specific person.
Meaning if you're having sex for your own pleasure and not because you find your partner sexually attractive, then you'd still be Asexual.

AVEN itself defines sexual attraction AS the desire for sexual contact with another person. I already explained that. So by AVEN's definition, asexuality means: lack of desire to connect sexually with others.

 

How would you personally define sexual attraction? Because sexual people don't get some magical feeling that makes us want sex that's different from what asexuals who say they want sex feel, lol. We desire sexual intimacy for different reasons but fundamentally it's for the pleasure of the act itself. For many of us, we are only able to desire that intimacy once we have a romantic bond with another person, but that doesn't mean we look at our partner and physically get horny as a result of just seeing them (or however you may be defining attraction?). Some people do get aroused as a result of physically looking at other people but that's just a personality trait some people have, it's not something defines all sexuals or anything.

 

Being a sexual person doesn't mean we look at attractive people and get horny and want to fuck them because of their appearance (that's a very shallow and inaccurate definition of sexual attraction). Being sexual means we are drawn to desire partnered sexual activity with certain people under certain circumstances. 

 

On top of that, even if you ARE defining sexual attraction as 'desiring sex as a result of the appearance of another person/getting turned on from looking at a hot person' (which again is a very shallow and limited way of defining it) the OP already said she gets turned on as a result of looking at her partner which is 100% the most basic way sexual attraction can be defined. I don't even experience that and I'm not asexual :P Hence why I asked the OP what it is about this situation that made her think it may be 'sexual favourable asexuality' because there is clearly a desire for sex as a result of romantic attraction (which many sexual people experience) and she also said she experiences the most basic and uncomplicated version of sexual attraction: being turned on as a result of looking at her partner.

 

2 hours ago, LizLianne said:

I've either become more sex favourable at least or even develop a desire to sleep with them, largely the sheer intimacy of it. Would I call it sexual attraction I don't know, because when faced with their bits I wouldn't say I'm attracted. But with their clothes on I certainly have an increased intrigue about it, and desire that intimacy that can then turn me on.

^^That's the part I needed clarification on. Everything that has been said here implies that sexual attraction is being experienced on multiple different levels including the most basic physical one which plenty of sexual people don't even experience. I know I don't get turned on just from looking at someone I am romantically attracted to and like I said, I don't even ID as ace anymore.

 

 @Philip027 put it a lot more bluntly and succinctly: Desiring sexual intimacy with another person for sexual and/or emotional pleasure is sexual attraction, at the most fundamental level. You're attracted to a person in a way that makes you able to desire sexual intimacy with them under some circumstances. That's really what sexual attraction is at the end of the day.

 

So I'm actually interested to know what your issue is with me wanting clarification before I can comment further on her situation? :o 

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MichaelTannock
2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

If you desire sex with someone, that's sexual attraction.  You can't really have one without the other.

My problem with that is, what if you desire sex with someone, but not with a specific person? Then you're not having sex with someone because you find them sexually attractive.

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Philip027
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My problem with that is, what if you desire sex with someone, but not with a specific person?

Huh?  How can "someone" not be a specific person?

 

You can't have sex with "humanity"; at some point it has to come down to a specific person, and there will be reasons you chose that specific person.  That's what sexual attraction is.  Unless you're saying you'd literally fuck anyone that came along, but surely you can understand why that doesn't sound "asexual" in the least?

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Ficto.
1 minute ago, MichaelTannock said:

My problem with that is, what if you desire sex with someone, but not with a specific person? Then you're not having sex with someone because you find them sexually attractive.

But if you're drawn to having sex with them specifically and not some random homeless guy up the road, you're still being drawn to one specific person? Or are you saying asexuality means you can want to literally have sex with any person alive indiscriminately? :P That would technically mean asexuality is a desire to have sex with everyone alive haha.

 

Anyway I explained it further in my response to you above though this may not be the best place for this discussion (regarding whether or not an asexual can want sex with literally anyone alive) because the OP is already very clearly stating she desires sexual intimacy with a specific person and even saying she gets turned on from looking at said person (which isn't something all sexual people experience but it's still obviously a sexual trait) so I was asking my questions to seek more clarity from her as to her feelings/desires before I could give an opinion regarding the demisexuality thing, if that makes sense?

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LizLianne

@Philip027 thank you that is a very helpful description.

 

I can vouch for demi tags because it's different from regular allo be it romantic or sexual because attraction isn't there until a close emotional bond, rather than just needing a close emotional bond to "do" in the case of some allos. I can also vouch because being demi in any way affects your life, I've dated people for ages with no romantic attraction developing. I know how it can be very different. Also we're talking about attraction not action. 

I'd say that I potentially enjoy sex from a physical viewpoint (in the same way I know of lesbians who use strap ons), I enjoy it because it's intimate - not necessarily seeing them as hot or sexy but I can enjoy it if it happens, and I can see sex from a crude scientific mating viewpoint of starting a family. Most of my allosexual friends talk about genitalia as "rather nice ", or "I'd do him/her" or "nice thighs/bum etc". None of these are relevant to me and even if an allosexual needs a close emotional bond to do it (action) they still have the attraction.

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LizLianne
15 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

If you desire sex with someone, that's sexual attraction.  You can't really have one without the other.

Not necessarily. You can desire sex or enjoy sex for other reasons other than attraction.

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MichaelTannock

@Philip027 @Ficto.

 

I've seen interviews with people (Prisoners for instance) who are Heterosexual that have had Homosexual sex when no one of the opposite sex was available, and said that they've never been attracted to the same sex before, during, or after the act.

And with people who are Homosexuals (from religious communities) that have had Heterosexual sex when no one of the same sex was available, and said that they've never been attracted to the opposite sex before, during, or after the act.

So I don't see the desire for sex leading to sex with someone as the key defining component of someone's orientation, but rather, the reason behind that desire being for a specific person.

Otherwise, you'd have to say that people turn gay or turn straight based on their sexual desire being stronger than who they're naturally attracted to, which is absurd.

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Ficto.
1 minute ago, LizLianne said:

(in the same way I know of lesbians who use strap ons)

This doesn't really have anything to do with anything, many lesbians who use strap-ons do so to please a female partner who desires penetrative sex? It's also really frikken hot to have sex in that way, so there's that :P It doesn't mean they're not somehow connected to their partner though?

 

And yes, the emotional aspect of sex is far more important than the physical aspect for most sexual people. If it was JUST about the physical sensations then it would be easier just to masturbate, hah. But it's the emotional aspect of sex (the intimacy) that makes it so much more pleasurable for so many people. That's what makes it 'special', it's because it's deeply intimate. 

 

And what I was trying to explain before is that many sexual people do actually need the bond to be able to desire that interaction, they can't just indiscriminately want sex from looking at people without needing that bond first. Sure some are definitely like that (and they're often more vocal hence why you always hear them yabbering) but there are plenty at the other end of the sexual spectrum who only rarely experience that kind of attraction and need to have developed an emotional bond before they can feel the attraction.

 

Regardless, you're still free to identify however you like. It's just because you were asking specifically that I was asking further questions to clarify your stance but given your most recent comment:

 

1 minute ago, LizLianne said:

Not necessarily. You can desire sex or enjoy sex for other reasons other than attraction.

I don't think we're going to get anywhere 😛 

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LizLianne
1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

Even though it's not really proper use of the term "favorable", what I interpret "sex favorable" as is that it's someone who is capable of enjoying sex, even though they still don't outright want it with anyone if they're asexual (a lot of people seem to think it isn't possible to enjoy something and still not desire it, but they are nevertheless two different things that aren't inherently connected).  This is as opposed to sex indifference where you don't really care one way or the other, or repulsion where you outright dislike it.

 

Demisexuals (and everyone else on the grey spectrum), on the other hand, will still end up actually desiring it; the conditions just have to be right for it to happen.

I found this very helpful description 

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Philip027
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I've seen interviews with people (Prisoners for instance) who are Heterosexual that have had Homosexual sex when no one of the opposite sex was available, and said that they've never been attracted to the same sex before, during, or after the act. 

And with people who are Homosexuals (from religious communities) that have had Heterosexual sex when no one of the same sex was available, and said that they've never been attracted to the opposite sex before, during, or after the act. 

I'd call such people bi to some extent (and it is often said that everyone is "at least a little bit bi", precisely because of cases like these, even though I think the saying obviously doesn't include *everyone*).

 

In my book, a dude who was truly heterosexual that had no females around would instead be saying "nah, thanks, I'm good" when presented with the opportunity for homosexual relations.

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LizLianne
2 minutes ago, Ficto. said:

This doesn't really have anything to do with anything, many lesbians who use strap-ons do so to please a female partner who desires penetrative sex? It's also really frikken hot to have sex in that way, so there's that :P It doesn't mean they're not somehow connected to their partner though?

 

And yes, the emotional aspect of sex is far more important than the physical aspect for most sexual people. If it was JUST about the physical sensations then it would be easier just to masturbate, hah. But it's the emotional aspect of sex (the intimacy) that makes it so much more pleasurable for so many people. That's what makes it 'special', it's because it's deeply intimate. 

 

And what I was trying to explain before is that many sexual people do actually need the bond to be able to desire that interaction, they can't just indiscriminately want sex from looking at people without needing that bond first. Sure some are definitely like that (and they're often more vocal hence why you always hear them yabbering) but there are plenty at the other end of the sexual spectrum who only rarely experience that kind of attraction and need to have developed an emotional bond before they can feel the attraction.

 

Regardless, you're still free to identify however you like. It's just because you were asking specifically that I was asking further questions to clarify your stance but given your most recent comment:

 

I don't think we're going to get anywhere 😛 

Asexuality is lack of sexual attraction, not anti-sex (action)

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MichaelTannock
Just now, Philip027 said:

I'd call such people bi to some extent.  A dude who was truly heterosexual that had no females around would instead be saying "nah, thanks, I'm good" when presented with the opportunity for homosexual relations.

Or, they don't find their own sex attractive, but want to have sex enough that they do the act anyway. You can't meaningfully call such a person Bisexual, because they're not attracted to both sexes.

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Ficto.
1 minute ago, MichaelTannock said:

I've seen interviews with people (Prisoners for instance) who are Heterosexual that have had Homosexual sex when no one of the opposite sex was available, and said that they've never been attracted to the same sex before, during, or after the act.

Their desire for partnered sexual intimacy overrode their gender preferences in these circumstances. The underlying desire for partnered sex comes first, then gender preferences come second, for some sexual people. It's just proving that for some people the innate desire for that sexual connection is so strong that they'll happily have sex with someone they're not even physically drawn to just so they can experience that connection.

 

2 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

So I don't see the desire for sex leading to sex with someone as the key defining component of someone's orientation, but rather, the reason behind that desire being for a specific person.

I see what you said here as the complete opposite: It proves that the underlying desire for partnered sex is what's important. Sexuals desire partnered sexual intimacy for pleasure (regardless of how they choose their sexual partners) and asexuals do not have an underlying desire to connect sexually with others. That's the difference between a sexual and an ace, regardless of what draws them to seek partners (be that romantic factors, physical factors, gender preferences, whatever). AVEN itself defines it this way in their General FAQ a well, it's not just me and Philip saying this.

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LizLianne
1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

I'd call such people bi to some extent (and it is often said that everyone is "at least a little bit bi", precisely because of cases like these, even though I think the saying obviously doesn't include *everyone*).

 

In my book, a dude who was truly heterosexual that had no females around would instead be saying "nah, thanks, I'm good" when presented with the opportunity for homosexual relations.

Not necessarily, people can experiment for fun or just for the sake of experimenting. They still have no attraction. This post wasn't supposed to be about action but attraction, and I've had an answer to that thanks 

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Ficto.
2 minutes ago, LizLianne said:

Asexuality is lack of sexual attraction, not anti-sex (action)

But, as a sexual person, I can see that the way you're defining my 'sexual attraction' is flawed. What makes me sexual is that under some circumstances I desire partnered sexual intimacy with certain other people. And that's true of every sexual person alive. That's what makes us sexual. When we are drawn to have sex with one specific person and not another (even if it required an emotional bond for us to be able to feel that way) at that moment we've developed sexual attraction to that person. I'm explaining this as someone who actually feels all this, hence why I wanted to know what it is you are specifically trying to pinpoint that would be 'different' between me and you? Sure there are a lot of vocal over-sexed young people out there who won't shut up about wanting to bang this or that hot person or whatever, but there are plenty of sexual people out there like me as well. I just wanted to know what, to you, is the difference between what you're describing and what the average sexual person who is more like me feels?

 

3 minutes ago, LizLianne said:

This post wasn't supposed to be about action but attraction, and I've had an answer to that thanks 

But you're still desiring sexual intimacy with a specific person who turns you on? That all amounts TO sexual attraction. It's not just some action with no attraction present, it IS sexual attraction. That's the point me and Philip are trying to make.

 

That would be 'demi', not 'sex favourable ace' by definition, because you specifically described getting 'turned on' when you look at your partner. There is of course controversy over the demisexual label and the fact that it often describes your average sexual person, but regardless of that, you'd be defined as demi and not 'sex favourable' ace. 

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Philip027
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Not necessarily. You can desire sex or enjoy sex for other reasons other than attraction. 

You can't *desire* sex with someone unless it's out of attraction.  There has to be something that draws you toward having sex with one person over another (because otherwise, again, that means you would literally fuck anyone that came along), and that is what the attraction aspect is.  Ruling out things like wanting sex just for having a kid, because in that situation what you want is the kid, not sex.

 

What you're saying is like saying you can want to hug someone without wanting to get close to them.  It's kind of necessary and intrinsic in the action; you can't have the first without also having the second.

 

Quote

Or, they don't find their own sex attractive, but want to have sex enough that they do the act anyway.

Then in my book, they DO find their own sex attractive enough to be able to want sex with them.  Again, I feel if they weren't attracted, they would decline.

 

Quote

Not necessarily, people can experiment for fun or just for the sake of experimenting.

That's not the same thing as actually desiring sex because you know you want it.

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LizLianne

I also asked for experiences from demisexuals and aces who enjoy sex /sex favourable for other reasons than attraction in order to help compare my experience with theirs. Many comments here are not that, but critics of demisexuality and sex favourablity, which is not what I asked for.

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MichaelTannock

@Ficto. @Philip027 The FAQ on these forums defines an Asexual as someone who doesn't experience Sexual Attraction, and Sexual Attraction as resulting in a desire for sexual contact with the person that the attraction is felt towards.

Meaning the underlying desire for partnered sex would not be what's important, but whether this desire is the result of an underlying sexual attraction to a specific person.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong by the way, I'm only explaining the definition I'm working from, where I read it, and how I understand it.

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MichaelTannock
2 minutes ago, LizLianne said:

I also asked for experiences from demisexuals and aces who enjoy sex /sex favourable for other reasons than attraction in order to help compare my experience with theirs. Many comments here are not that, but critics of demisexuality and sex favourablity, which is not what I asked for.

I apologise for taking part in derailing your thread.

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Philip027

And we're trying to explain that sexual attraction is a lot more simple than what some people are making it out to be.  It's not having to be able to look at someone and think they are hot, that you think their genitals are appealing, or whatever other specific thing you're thinking of.  It simply means you are capable of being drawn to somebody (this is literally what "attraction" means) in a way that makes you desire sex with them.  Because of this, you can't actively desire sex with someone unless you already had at least *some* capacity of sexual attraction toward them.

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LizLianne
3 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

And we're trying to explain that sexual attraction is a lot more simple than what some people are making it out to be.  It's not having to be able to look at someone and think they are hot, that you think their genitals are appealing, or whatever other specific thing you're thinking of.  It simply means you are capable of being drawn to somebody (this is literally what "attraction" means) in a way that makes you desire sex with them.  Because of this, you can't actively desire sex with someone unless you already had at least *some* capacity of sexual attraction toward them.

Or the being drawn to someone is romantic. Whenever a partner has become naked it generally (to my experience to this day at least) is a turn off, like oh yeah THAT, but I'm still capable of enjoying it for the various reasons I listed.

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MichaelTannock

@Philip027 I'm in no way saying that Sexual Attraction is about having to be able to look at someone and think they are hot, that you think their genitals are appealing, or whatever other specific thing you're thinking of. I'm acknowledging that it simply means you are capable of being drawn to somebody in a way that makes you desire sex with them. However, people have had sex with those they are not the least bit sexually attracted to, so to me, it doesn't make sense to conflate sexual desire with Sexual Attraction.

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Philip027
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Or the being drawn to someone is romantic. Whenever a partner has become naked it generally (to my experience to this day at least) is a turn off, like oh yeah THAT, but I'm still capable of enjoying it for the various reasons I listed.

Not all sexual people actually appreciate nudity, for the record.  You'd think they all would, but it isn't universal.

 

That also still has nothing to do intrinsically with whether or not you can desire sex with people, though.

 

Quote

However, people have had sex with those they are not the least bit sexually attracted to, so to me, it doesn't make sense to conflate sexual desire with Sexual Attraction.

Sure, they have had it.  But they haven't WANTED it, without that attraction being present.

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