BraveMind

Miserable and Frustrated

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Serran

Sex to someone that doesnt desire reaches a point where its too much. Enjoyment turns to neutral and eventually to repulsion, if it is too frequent. She has probably reached a point where its just a lot and mentally and emotionally draining. 

 

For me, when I was at that point, the best thing to get me to be OK with it was a few weeks break (not even talking about it, no mentions of it, no subtle hints or getting overly affectionate) and a scheduled time day to do it afterwards. That way i could mentally prepare and save up the massive amount of energy it took to do it.

 

Also, the non-sex sexual acts might be easier for her since shes not expected to perform exactly. Anything without my body involved was better. 

 

Nowadays I found someone I am into sexually, so I can understand why it would seem alien to be that exhausted by sex stuff. But, it really is more tiring than a full day of work when you arent into it and have to force it. I hated the drain so much. And it was so weird when I started feeling calm and liking it after sexual stuff with my current spouse. Such major differences. 

 

As for the kids... she cant use threats to discuss this. It has to be a safe open space. Even if things said hurt on both sides. Keep at counseling if you cant get to that space on your own. 

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SusannaC
14 hours ago, anisotropic said:

@BraveMind I fear to really absorb the enormity of the difference, it might help to think about how willing you are – assuming you are a het male – to have sex with another man. Assuming, I guess, no homophobia on your part. Or a woman you feel absolutely no desire for.

This might kill your own desire. It does for a lot of sexuals, I think it's often a gut-wrenching realization to have. But, I think sexual partners that don't take it this seriously are going to have a lot of trouble managing their expectations. 😕 

This is great advice for dealing with your relationship IMO.  Anisotropics words ARE gut wrenching- really found that out myself but accepting this belief helped me to have a sense of peace.  Made my relationship more harmonious too. Also agree with the above advice to prepare for the painful possibility of separating.  None of us know what tomorrow will bring, so preparation for the unexpected potholes hopefully helps to avoid a few that will come our way.   Sorry I can’t offer more words of assistance.

.I wish you happiness nevertheless, and a clear path, in these troubled times.

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ryn2

A clear path makes a big difference, even if it’s initially hard to see it as a happy path (or even a path to happiness).

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MrDane
On 11/20/2018 at 9:41 PM, anamikanon said:

One other thing I can think of is something that is working very well for my ace and me - move to separate beds for sleeping at night. If my ace is in the mood to offer sex, he asks to stay. If I'm fine being platonic, I ask him to stay, but by default, we sleep in separate beds. It doesn't get me laid more often, but it does take the stress out of nights and our relationship is improving because of it. It isn't a "separation", it is separate sleeping arrangements. And yes, since this happened, we have slept together - both platonically, as well as after sex. It took him a while to offer sex, but even without that, I was already feeling like a new person now that I wasn't lying next to him awake after not having had sex and listening to him sleep or being affectionate every night without possibility of sex, and so on. I started sleeping much better almost immediately and it gave me the energy for life in general as well as our relationship, now that I had the option to participate without feeling forced to constantly behave in a manner I was not.

Yes, if the acer is sex-neutral, then do something to remove the stress. This could open a door for more intimacy/sex. Hopefully the result is something good for both.

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BraveMind
On 11/21/2018 at 8:42 AM, uhtred said:

 

Leave, cheat , live like a monk. 

Reads like a lucrative t-shirt slogan you could sell to sexuals in my position. Excellent! :)

 

I'm having a chat with her following @anisotropic 's 10 Commandments tonight. Update to follow.

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BraveMind
21 hours ago, anisotropic said:

assuming you are a het male – to have sex with another man. Assuming, I guess, no homophobia on your part. Or a woman you feel absolutely no desire for.

This is excellent advice, @anisotropic. I was already aware of this comparison, it came up during the therapist sessions. I imagined a good male friend trying to have sex with me -- it would be an awful, unpleasant experience for me because I'm het.

 

If she has similar feelings when we do it I'm very sad for subjecting her to it. It adds more fuel to separation.

  

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BraveMind

I had the chat with my wife yesterday. Made two mugs of tea and sat down beside her while she was working on her laptop.

 

I told her I miss her very much and that I had no expectations coming to her tonight. I just wanted to  point out that it has been long since we last had sex. She started to say with no enthusiasm and bothered that she would come to bed in 30 minutes. I stressed again that I didn't expect anything tonight and just wanted to tell her how I feel -- the last therapy session was over a month ago and I'm not coping, thinking about sex and our situation all the time.

 

This made her a bit angry, asking how other people who have no partners or lost their spouses due to death cope. I was going to give three examples of people we know that remarried or singles who had sex partners but I bit my tongue.

 

I also mentioned that I don't mind us sleeping separately. I do prefer her in bed with me but know we're happier this way if we both can't get what we want (me sex, her sleep).

 

Next I wanted to work out her limits for our next meetup, mentioning a few sex acts (very vanilla) that I would enjoy doing with her. She gave a sharp No to caressing this, kissing those, trying this position, and so on, so I stopped after five. I also asked if we should meet with the therapist again and she said no. I agree, I don't think she can offer anymore help.

 

Nothing happened and I slept alone. We'll see what Friday night brings. 

 

The part about me not coping is true. I'm thinking about sex too much and it's ruining my enjoyment of basic tasks, even lunch. It's even ruining my relations with other women around me.

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ryn2

Have you taken a step back at this point and talked about what outside of sex you both want and expect to see happen at this point?

 

If you want to continue the relationship overall you may need to consider counseling focused on that, not on sex.

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anisotropic

If your partner can't manage to have empathy on her end, I'm sorry, it sounds to me like this isn't going to work out. Hostility just makes me wonder if someone is using asexuality as an excuse for avoiding admitting they don't they don't like someone on a personal level enough to want to be intimate with them.

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ryn2
31 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

If your partner can't manage to have empathy on her end, I'm sorry, it sounds to me like this isn't going to work out. Hostility just makes me wonder if someone is using asexuality as an excuse for avoiding admitting they don't they don't like someone on a personal level enough to want to be intimate with them.

If nothing else, it at least says she’s too frustrated with the situation presently to be good-natured about it.  That’s not likely to go away without outside help, whether it’s ultimately fixable (within the relationship) or not.

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BraveMind
42 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

If nothing else, it at least says she’s too frustrated with the situation presently to be good-natured about it.  

This is it I think. If I was in her shoes and my good male friend brought me tea and had the same chat I would not be good natured either. I'd be digging for excuses and angered he ruined my evening to talk about something I despise doing.

 

 

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anisotropic

Yeah? What's she going to want to do to move forward? Get a different therapist?

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ryn2

When you’ve recently realized you probably aren’t going to ever intrinsically want to have sex again, and in fact may not have wanted all the sex you’ve had, a sexologist (who also does not think mixed marriages can work) is probably not the most appealing therapist...

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BraveMind

Nice twist: she came to me a moment ago with tea, sat down, and said she would like to try tonight. I told her I really appreciate her offering this and if she changes her mind before now and bedtime I'll understand. No pressure. I also said I'd first like to talk about what she's willing/wants to do. For me that talk is most important tonight.

 

Nice, calm chat. I can really feel she's struggling with her asexual instinct to avoid sex with me. She does love me.

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anisotropic

Ah, that's a relief, and essential that you're committed to reducing pressure. The most important conversations right now are at a higher level, understanding and reassuring each other. Talking about that straight -- whether you think you can navigate it together, and how.

 

It's true that therapist doesn't sound great. (did this therapist let an idea of 2x week sound good to start with??? as a comparison: my queer therapist  commented 1x week was unusually high frequency for a mixed relationship.) 

 

Maybe her own LGBTQIA+ therapist, with less of a traditional mindset? and someone just for her, she can trust to be on her side...

 

Of course my therapist also talks with me about things like "how to get my parents on board with my plans to take T" so it was already a bit queer in our household!

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BraveMind

Twist again: Leaving the bathroom after a shower on my way to bed I encountered my wife standing near the bedroom doorway. She says she's not ready to join me tonight. I tell her I understand and I'm not disappointed. I'll check-in with her again in a day or two.

 

This is all becoming unbearably draining for me. The therapist is wise in thinking most mixed relationships like this don't last.


 

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Telecaster68

From experience.... When you've had that kind of thing happen enough, eventually you'll learn to let go of even the sliver of hope against hope that something might happen. It'll be a relief and you can start grieving the loss of the relationship you thought you had. It'll probably be the beginning of the end of the one you *do* have, too.

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anisotropic

Yeah, the pattern is sadly that sexual folks tend to fall out of love, if our desire for sexual intimacy isn't somehow fulfilled. (Our side of the straight.) Or fall for someone else, and can't help it... something like this.

 

We don't mean to, but sex is pretty typically part of our emotional experience of love, we can't change our orientation either.

 

I'm lucky I only had to grieve the first part. I used to go on stupidly long walks -- a couple hours -- to process it, we drove along one of those paths I took last night, just coincidentally as we were headed home... it was interesting to be reminded of that period.

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ryn2

I don’t supposed it’s markedly unlike falling out of love due to the myraid other things that can erode a relationship.

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SusannaC
21 hours ago, BraveMind said:

The part about me not coping is true. I'm thinking about sex too much and it's ruining my enjoyment of basic tasks, even lunch. It's even ruining my relations with other women around me.

Your words make me so painfully sad.  The problem seems to be in your court now and your are on your own to navigate your path.  Not fun and I do not envy you but you are coping well with a real, serious problem.  Many of us have been in similar situations and with time( many seem like a very long time) you will figure out the best path for you.  She may not want to talk about the issues that exist, but talking will help you as you find the right course

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uhtred
17 hours ago, ryn2 said:

I don’t supposed it’s markedly unlike falling out of love due to the myraid other things that can erode a relationship.

Maybe - but I think to me it feels different.  Sex ,romance and love are so tightly tied together that I think more me its different than any other possible cause 

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ryn2
3 hours ago, uhtred said:

Maybe - but I think to me it feels different.  Sex ,romance and love are so tightly tied together that I think more me its different than any other possible cause 

If you fell out of love for some other reason, wouldn’t you fall out of wanting sex and romance too?

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RAZS

Forced celibacy is hard.  It's been 4.5 years since my gf allowed me any sort of affection.   Literally threw my hands in the air a few days ago and started planning how we would separate.  Today she goes to lay down for a nap and then calls me to join her.  Needless to say I'm actually pretty happy right this second but now I'm wondering what's next.  Because waiting another 4.5 years isn't going to happen

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ryn2
3 hours ago, RAZS said:

Literally threw my hands in the air a few days ago and started planning how we would separate. 

Did she know this?

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RAZS

No I wanted to figure out the logistics first.  We run a business together from our home so logistically a nightmare.  I had just really got over making the decision and was starting to make plans

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anisotropic

Uhhhhmmm @RAZS you haven't had a nap together in 4.5 years? Sorry I'm pretty sure there's some euphemism going on here but this is a forum about (not) having sex so I think it's fair to be slightly more explicit :)

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ryn2
30 minutes ago, RAZS said:

No I wanted to figure out the logistics first.  We run a business together from our home so logistically a nightmare.  I had just really got over making the decision and was starting to make plans

Ah, okay.  Was wondering if her sudden change of heart was related to your potential departure.

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BraveMind
On 11/24/2018 at 11:39 AM, Telecaster68 said:

From experience.... When you've had that kind of thing happen enough, eventually you'll learn to let go of even the sliver of hope against hope that something might happen. It'll be a relief and you can start grieving the loss of the relationship you thought you had. It'll probably be the beginning of the end of the one you *do* have, too.

Thanks for sharing this. 

 

Tonight a couple we're friends with popped in on short notice. It was a nice visit, glad they came. What struck me though was how much effort the wife put into the visit. She ran to the store, bought some cakes and wine, got dressed up, and spent three hours entertaining them.

 

I realized she has the time, energy, and willingness to do that but can't find 15 minutes and the effort to give me satisfying sex. Am I over analyzing?

 

I know entertaining guests is something she enjoys, whereas sex with me (comparable to me having sex with my good male friend) is something she doesn't. 

 

Our therapy started in August and we're approaching December with no change on her part. I'm worried.

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anisotropic
49 minutes ago, BraveMind said:

Am I over analyzing?

No and yes? It depends?

 

Sex is something you would need to work together to figure out.

 

Since you added the "satisfying" though I think the ball tends to be in your court -- provided you know the rules (how to ask, what you can ask for). She needs to care enough about you to help you learn the rules. To figure out what they are, and communicate them.

 

But if you know the rules and can't find sex satisfying within those boundaries... not much she can do about that.

 

P.S. mostly it was me that changed to adapt. But my partner was very willing to communicate so I could work out what changes to make.

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RAZS
1 hour ago, anisotropic said:

Uhhhhmmm @RAZS you haven't had a nap together in 4.5 years? Sorry I'm pretty sure there's some euphemism going on here but this is a forum about (not) having sex so I think it's fair to be slightly more explicit :)

Ok I haven't had sex in 4.5 years lol

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