Trying my best to sort my head out. *Trigger: Rape*

[Hargreeves]

Hi guys, 

 

It's the first time I've posted on here, although I've been coming back to read threads on the site over the last few years. 

 

I'm in a complete state, and I guess I just want a bit of reassurance that things might possibly get better. 

 

When I was 15, I was raped. It wasn't anyone I knew, it was just me being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel sick writing about it or talking about it or even thinking about it, so I won't say anything else on here. It's honestly something that haunts me and still gives me nightmares 10 years later, and I don't think I'm ever going to get over it. 

 

Before that happened I had never really been interested in relationships or felt any sexual attraction towards anyone. I'd never really thought about it too much though, and just figured it would be something I would start to feel or experience as I got older. Following on from the rape though, the thought of any intimacy petrifies me. I'm confused as to whether I'm now just completely traumatised or whether I'm Asexual, or whether (more likely) I'm Asexual and traumatised at the same time. As Asexuals, is it normal to feel fear around intimacy or is it just something you don't want to happen or feel any desire for?

 

I want more than anything to be in a loving relationship, move in with someone, cuddle up on the sofa and have a family and kids. I'm in tears writing this because I don't feel like that's ever going to happen for me, and I feel as if things are only going to get worse for me. I feel like I'm punishing myself for feeling this way, but I don't know what I can do to make it any better. If someone said I would never have to have sex again, and could meet someone who felt the same way, but wanted to be in a 'normal' relationship in all other aspects, I can't tell you how relieved I would feel. I've looked on the asexual dating apps and websites but there are only about 2 people on there within a 50 mile radius of Manchester and we have none of the same interests. 

 

I tried this last few weeks to join a 'normal' dating site, but yesterday I met up on a 3rd date and the guy tried to unbutton my jeans. I don't know how I didn't burst into tears there and then but I managed to hold it together and make an excuse. 

I feel like I've hit rock bottom. 

[Guest]

I'm sorry you had to go through that.  *hugs*

 

Have you spoken to a therapist about what happened? Perhaps it would help you to move on as best you can. I appreciate that it will raise bad memories but sometimes to move on we have to walk through a storm.

 

Both trauma and asexuality will make the thought of intimacy uncomfortable. Maybe not for everyone but I know the thought makes me uncomfortable because I don't have same desire that the other person has.

 

There is definitely hope so try to stay positive. It sounds like an asexual partner would suit you better than a sexual one and the main thing is to find someone that understands how you feel and respects that.

 

Imo, meeting sexual men at this point might not be the best idea. Have you tried somewhere like OkCupid? You can label yourself on there as being asexual at least.

[Koning]

 

1 hour ago, Hargreeves said:

As Asexuals, is it normal to feel fear around intimacy or is it just something you don't want to happen or feel any desire for?

For many asexuals, there is fear around intimacy. I believe this fear usually arises from the possibility that it will develop into anything sexual, which asexuals are (at least) uncomfortable with. However, many asexuals might like some form of intimacy (e.g. kisses and cuddles).

[everywhere and nowhere]

It's not really a question whether you are asexual or traumatised, or perhaps both. If you don't experience sexual desire, you are at least effectively asexual. The result is just the same as in people who are asexual for no particular reason: you don't want sex. Well, of course acquired asexuality - as a result of trauma, illness, medication, neurodivergence etc. - is technically something diffrent from inborn asexuality. But I believe that it should also be accepted - that people who have become asexual due to such factors have a right to identify as asexual.

On the other hand, results of trauma can be treated. People have a range of diverse responses to sexual trauma - some fear intimacy, but gradually learn to accept it, some become permanently asexual, some even become hypersexual as some warped and not very successful way of "reclaiming their sexuality" (I mean, underneath such people's sexual behaviour there is usually a lot of anxiety and lingering trauma and not true sexual agency). However, if a person doesn't even want to start experiencing desire and to become psychologically capable of having sex, they should be left in peace.

Your situation is complicated by the fact that while you don't experience sexual desire, you want to have a family. This is something I can't relate to because I never wanted it (however, I'm effectively asexual not due to trauma, but due to chronic illness which was an important factor in making me nudity-averse). So, altogether, I would suggest psychotherapy. However, you should look for a good, ace-friendly therapist. It is suggested that there is a difference between people who have become effectively asexual due to trauma and those who would have been asexual anyway: the first group would likely respond to therapy and start experiencing sexual attraction, the latter won't. So psychotherapy is no guarantee, still it may help you discover that you are asexual anyway and gain some confidence through it. ("Sexual healing" should anyway not be the sole goal of therapy for survivors of sexual assault: anyone has a right to decide that they don't want to experience desire.) If it turns out this way, it also doesn't mean that "all hope is lost". You could find an asexual partner and adopt children or even have biological children through insemination, without the need to have sex. It is more difficult, but not impossible - and, actually, may become easier if asexual visibility makes people more open in admitting to themselves and others that they desire a nonsexual relationship.

[Hargreeves]

4 hours ago, Little Bear said:

I'm sorry you had to go through that.  *hugs*

 

Have you spoken to a therapist about what happened? Perhaps it would help you to move on as best you can. I appreciate that it will raise bad memories but sometimes to move on we have to walk through a storm.

 

Both trauma and asexuality will make the thought of intimacy uncomfortable. Maybe not for everyone but I know the thought makes me uncomfortable because I don't have same desire that the other person has.

 

There is definitely hope so try to stay positive. It sounds like an asexual partner would suit you better than a sexual one and the main thing is to find someone that understands how you feel and respects that.

 

Imo, meeting sexual men at this point might not be the best idea. Have you tried somewhere like OkCupid? You can label yourself on there as being asexual at least.

Thank you for replying, its been a really horrible day I tried to speak to a therapist about it yes, but they were so dismissive and it honestly just made me feel worse. I'm so embarrassed about the whole thing I find it really hard to talk about. 

 

I completely agree that an asexual partner would suit me better, i just feel that it's going to be near impossible to find out. I've had a look on OkCupid today but again there is nobody on there in my area or even a 100 mile radius who I have any similar interests with. 

 

Thank you so much for being so lovely 

[Hargreeves]

3 hours ago, Koning said:

 

For many asexuals, there is fear around intimacy. I believe this fear usually arises from the possibility that it will develop into anything sexual, which asexuals are (at least) uncomfortable with. However, many asexuals might like some form of intimacy (e.g. kisses and cuddles).

That makes perfect sense, I think it's the fear of it developing into anything sexual with me that scares me. 

[Hargreeves]

3 hours ago, Nowhere Girl said:

It's not really a question whether you are asexual or traumatised, or perhaps both. If you don't experience sexual desire, you are at least effectively asexual. The result is just the same as in people who are asexual for no particular reason: you don't want sex. Well, of course acquired asexuality - as a result of trauma, illness, medication, neurodivergence etc. - is technically something diffrent from inborn asexuality. But I believe that it should also be accepted - that people who have become asexual due to such factors have a right to identify as asexual.

On the other hand, results of trauma can be treated. People have a range of diverse responses to sexual trauma - some fear intimacy, but gradually learn to accept it, some become permanently asexual, some even become hypersexual as some warped and not very successful way of "reclaiming their sexuality" (I mean, underneath such people's sexual behaviour there is usually a lot of anxiety and lingering trauma and not true sexual agency). However, if a person doesn't even want to start experiencing desire and to become psychologically capable of having sex, they should be left in peace.

Your situation is complicated by the fact that while you don't experience sexual desire, you want to have a family. This is something I can't relate to because I never wanted it (however, I'm effectively asexual not due to trauma, but due to chronic illness which was an important factor in making me nudity-averse). So, altogether, I would suggest psychotherapy. However, you should look for a good, ace-friendly therapist. It is suggested that there is a difference between people who have become effectively asexual due to trauma and those who would have been asexual anyway: the first group would likely respond to therapy and start experiencing sexual attraction, the latter won't. So psychotherapy is no guarantee, still it may help you discover that you are asexual anyway and gain some confidence through it. ("Sexual healing" should anyway not be the sole goal of therapy for survivors of sexual assault: anyone has a right to decide that they don't want to experience desire.) If it turns out this way, it also doesn't mean that "all hope is lost". You could find an asexual partner and adopt children or even have biological children through insemination, without the need to have sex. It is more difficult, but not impossible - and, actually, may become easier if asexual visibility makes people more open in admitting to themselves and others that they desire a nonsexual relationship.

That makes complete sense, thank you for replying. 

Psychotherapy would probably be good for me, although I do think now it would lead me to discovering I am asexual anyway. I would love to find an asexual partner, but think that's going to be near impossible for me after I've looked at all the asexual dating sites. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hargreeves said:

Thank you for replying, its been a really horrible day I tried to speak to a therapist about it yes, but they were so dismissive and it honestly just made me feel worse. I'm so embarrassed about the whole thing I find it really hard to talk about. 

 

I completely agree that an asexual partner would suit me better, i just feel that it's going to be near impossible to find out. I've had a look on OkCupid today but again there is nobody on there in my area or even a 100 mile radius who I have any similar interests with. 

 

Thank you so much for being so lovely 

It's unfortunate that they reacted in that way. There are some better therapists out there and I have been to see one myself so I understand what it's like.

 

Please don't feel embarrassed, you have done nothing wrong and have nothing to feel bad about. Talking about something like that is very hard but once in the open you can take control and stop it impacting your life.

 

That's the same issue I faced when I used to want a partner. I think with patience you will find someone but maybe you're not ready yet. I believe sometimes that things find us when we are at the right place in life.

[NickyTannock]

@Hargreeves Welcome to AVEN!

 

I've wondered if my trauma caused me to be Asexual.
When I was around 8, there was an incident where I was forced to do sexual things.
The conclusion I've come to is that it doesn't matter, whether my lack of Sexual Attraction is the result of trauma or not, I still lack it.

 

The only thing I can think to suggest is to try the Meetup forum, https://www.asexuality.org/en/forum/12-meetup-mart/

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake,

[General]

@MichaelTannock That is extremely problematic.  If asexuality is said to be caused by something negative, the ace community certainly won't be taken seriously by anyone.  It's like saying gay people are gay because they were sexually abused or had a bad experience, which most definitely isn't the case.  We are all born this way, not made.  I'm sure all of the bigots would have a field day with the entire LGBT+ if we claimed trauma is the reason for how we are.

 

Lack of sexual desire due to abuse is something that should be acknowledged but also completely separated from asexuality as an orientation.  Those are two very different things entirely.

 

I personally wouldn't appreciate someone telling me with absolute certainty that I'm asexual because I've been traumatized and need professional help.  That's ludicrous.  

[NickyTannock]

6 minutes ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

Lack of sexual desire due to abuse is something that should be acknowledged but also completely separated from asexuality as an orientation.  Those are two very different things entirely.

Okay, so is my lack of Sexual Attraction the result of my abuse, or was I born Asexual and happened to be abused?

[General]

2 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

Okay, so is my lack of Sexual Attraction the result of my abuse, or was I born Asexual and happened to be abused?

I don't know your life story.  You're the only person who can answer that.  All I know is, you didn't become a certain orientation all of a sudden.  No one develops a natural lack of sexual attraction because of abuse.

[Skycaptain]

@MichaelTannock,, in some people, previous traumatic experiences can result in repressive or phobic behavior, not just sexually, so this theory cannot be discounted as "just doesn't happen."

However for the majority of those who identify as asexual and have been abused, the second scenario is more likely. A potential abuser will not care about the victim's orientation, and may even view it as a challenge, "corrective rape" I believe it's called 

[Philip027]

Quote

All I know is, you didn't become a certain orientation all of a sudden.  No one develops a natural lack of sexual attraction because of abuse.

[citation needed]

[NickyTannock]

7 hours ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

I don't know your life story.  You're the only person who can answer that.  All I know is, you didn't become a certain orientation all of a sudden.  No one develops a natural lack of sexual attraction because of abuse.

Except I can't answer that, I don't know why I don't experience Sexual Attraction, which leaves three choices.
If it's problematic for me to say that I've wondered if my trauma caused me to be Asexual, then either I'm not allowed to call myself an Asexual, not allowed to talk about my abuse, or I'm not allowed to acknowledge a possible link.

 

4 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

@MichaelTannock,, in some people, previous traumatic experiences can result in repressive or phobic behavior, not just sexually, so this theory cannot be discounted as "just doesn't happen."

However for the majority of those who identify as asexual and have been abused, the second scenario is more likely. A potential abuser will not care about the victim's orientation, and may even view it as a challenge, "corrective rape" I believe it's called 

What theory am I discounting? I don't understand.

[Skycaptain]

@MichaelTannock, I think you misread that. All I was saying is that neither of the two ideas you floated in one question need be totally the sole cause, or cannot be the cause. 

[NickyTannock]

2 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

@MichaelTannock, I think you misread that. All I was saying is that neither of the two ideas you floated in one question need be totally the sole cause, or cannot be the cause. 

That's the point I'm making, which is why I was confused.

[General]

4 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

Except I can't answer that, I don't know why I don't experience Sexual Attraction, which leaves three choices.
If it's problematic for me to say that I've wondered if my trauma caused me to be Asexual, then either I'm not allowed to call myself an Asexual, not allowed to talk about my abuse, or I'm not allowed to acknowledge a possible link.

 

What theory am I discounting? I don't understand.

In early childhood it's more difficult to assess natural lack of sexual attraction.

 

I had to do a lot of self-reflection in order to understand the many components of my identity.  It took me 32 years to finally come to a conclusion, so I know it isn't an easy journey.

[NickyTannock]

5 minutes ago, AceOfHearts_85 said:

One thing that might be helpful is looking at what age you were when the abuse occurred.  In early childhood it's more difficult to assess natural asexuality, but if you were a teenager at the time it's possible that your lack of attraction is attributed to abuse.  Most teens are already feeling sexual towards each other, as odd as that sounds.  I'm aware this isn't the case for everyone, but this could shed some light on the question.

 

I had to do a lot of self-reflection in order to understand the many components of my identity.  It took me 32 years to finally come to a conclusion, so I know it isn't an easy journey.

As I said, in my case, I was around 8 when the incident occurred.

 

Funny you should mention that teens are sexually attracted to each other, I realised I was different in my early teens because I started hearing sexual comments from my peers, and was bewildered by them.

I'm now 33, and I've never found someone sexually attractive.

[everywhere and nowhere]

10 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

@MichaelTannock,, in some people, previous traumatic experiences can result in repressive or phobic behavior, not just sexually, so this theory cannot be discounted as "just doesn't happen."

However for the majority of those who identify as asexual and have been abused, the second scenario is more likely. A potential abuser will not care about the victim's orientation, and may even view it as a challenge, "corrective rape" I believe it's called 

"Corrective rape" is extremely unlikely in case of children because their natural orientation doesn't manifest yet.

However, my opinion is first of all: this is a chicken-and-egg discussion. And the obvious reality that an asexual survivor still doesn't experience sexual attraction. If it bothers them, they can try psychotherapy and perhaps, in some cases, in "unlocks" something in them, which would theoretically mean that they weren't originally asexual, but their experienced orientation developed as a result of trauma. But if they are fine with not experiencing sexual attraction - why bother? By all means they have a right to identify as asexual, particularly since they anyway entirely fulfill the definition.

[General]

31 minutes ago, Nowhere Girl said:

"Corrective rape" is extremely unlikely in case of children because their natural orientation doesn't manifest yet.

However, my opinion is first of all: this is a chicken-and-egg discussion. And the obvious reality that an asexual survivor still doesn't experience sexual attraction. If it bothers them, they can try psychotherapy and perhaps, in some cases, in "unlocks" something in them, which would theoretically mean that they weren't originally asexual, but their experienced orientation developed as a result of trauma. But if they are fine with not experiencing sexual attraction - why bother? By all means they have a right to identify as asexual, particularly since they anyway entirely fulfill the definition.

I don't think a person who is naturally asexual is going to be extremely bothered that they are this way.  If they're upset about it, I would tend to think something else is going on.  I know society has a big role to play in regards to the popular belief that everyone should be heteronormative.  But, I can't honestly imagine a person who was traumatized being okay with their lack of sexual attraction if said trauma was the cause.

 

There is a big difference between a natural lack of attraction and a caused lack of attraction.  We really cannot lump these two together because it wouldn't be accurate or fair to people in either boat.  In all honesty, a caused lack of attraction shouldn't be referred to as asexuality.  That's far too confusing.  I'm already afraid to come out to my own doctor, because I'm worried they're going to think I need a psychiatrist.  They're going to think I'm asexual because I've suffered some form of abuse to make me that way.  I've never been abused.

 

Can you see why this is problematic?

[Colonel Aureliano Buendía]

It seems like someone who was sexual before they were abused would usually notice the difference in their experience if they somehow stopped experiencing sexual attraction.

If someone isn't sure if they were sexual before abuse or not, and is content with not being sexual, they're probably naturally ace. I'm not that well versed in these things, so I might be wrong, but it wouldn't make much sense for someone to become asexual without them noticing something is different.

Even if abuse contributes to someone's experience, they should be free to categorise that experience however they feel comfortable with. Making abuse victims as comfortable as possible kind of takes priority over PR, in my view.

If you don't feel sexual attraction, you should feel free to identify with asexuality, and in most contexts that will accurately describe your experience, and the role of abuse isn't likely to come up. In a context where you would have to explain your abuse, you would probably also bring up the confusion over whether it contributed to your experience of sexuality anyways, negating any worry over misconceptions.

 

Also, to the original poster, identify however you feel comfortable with and with whatever you feel describes your experiences, regardless of the awful things that have happened in your life, and I wish you better luck in future dating endeavours, they're bound to work out eventually, and hopefully you won't have to go through someone trying something like that again, which is totally unacceptable without consent.