Where do I even begin?

[HuborBub?]

I’m new here, and I’m a bit overwhelmed at the moment.  I’m sexual and my wife is asexual, I think. I don’t really understand. We’ve been together 15 years and for most of it I have been trying to figure out what’s wrong and how to fix it. I blamed myself for being unpleasant, unattractive or unsatisfying, for somehow pushing her away or not meeting her emotional needs...  I’m exhausted.

 

She says she loves me, is not having an affair of any kind, is attracted to me, etc. and simply “doesn’t have sexual urges.”  When I attempt to initiate physical intimacy, through a sensual touch or kiss, or by asking if it’s an option or telling her I would like it, (maybe I am impossibly inept at this sort of thing and any effort of mine has an opposite effect?) her facial expression and tone of voice exhibit disgust and she turns me away. To me that’s not a lack of urges that’s a distinct aversion. 

 

She says she is open to “working on it together” and yet she never seems to have the time or energy to discuss it.  In fact she rarely seems open to discussing anything other than practical matters of communal living. When she tells me about her day it is mostly what other poeple said or did. When I try telling her about mine she sometimes appears interested, and just as often appears annoyed. 

 

My gut often tells me this relationship is most unfortunate and essentially unredeemable. Staying together “for the kids” is actually going to teach them unhealthy behavior and torment them indefinitely. Staying together “for better or worse” is nonsense. 

 

But I’m still here trying. 

 

I see here on AVEN there are 15 years worth of discussions about this sort of thing. It’s a little overwhelming. 

 

[Traveler40]

58 minutes ago, HuborBub? said:

But I’m still here trying.

Welcome @HuborBub?, I’m glad you found this site as it can help you immensely.  You are indeed still trying.  The realization that you may be in a mixed marriage can be overwhelming at first when finding AVEN, but it can also help clarify so much for you.  

 

Keep reading.  See what fits, what doesn’t and communicate with your wife.  As many before have said, “your wife doesn’t owe you sex, but she does owe you communication.”    

 

Your post sadly resonates, and you aren’t alone. 

[ryn2]

4 hours ago, HuborBub? said:

her facial expression and tone of voice exhibit disgust and she turns me away. To me that’s not a lack of urges that’s a distinct aversion.

Not that it necessarily changes your mind about your relationship, but for your own sake, please know that for some aces (and perhaps some sexuals, although opinion here varies) aversion to/revulsion about sex is a thing.  It’s not personal.  The ace partner isn’t finding the sexual partner repulsive; it’s sex itself (with anyone) that is the issue.  It’s much the same way you might feel about having sex with a man, if you are not bi/pansexual.

 

Given that, your wife may well be telling the truth when she says she loves you, isn’t seeing anyone else, and finds you (aesthetically) attractive... even though sex itself repels her.

 

Of course, that still doesn’t mean the relationship works for you.

 

As Traveler said, no matter what you decide, communication is really important.  A neutral third party (counselor/therapist, e.g.) can be helpful when communication doesn’t seem to be happening...

[HuborBub?]

Thank you @Traveler40 and @ryn2. 

 

 

[Telecaster68]

Yeah the key thing is when an sexual says they don't want to have sex with you, they don't mean they don't want to have sex with YOU, they mean they don't want to HAVE SEX with you, if you see the difference.

 

[anisotrophic]

It feels like there's a communication difficulty broader than sex itself, and truthfully I think I would have trouble staying in a romantic partnership if my partner has aversion. But maybe there's also misunderstandings, and even a split can be amicable rather than acrimonious -- so a therapist could be helpful, single or couple, especially if people are willing to do it? If someone is ace it's important to find someone that understands it and won't try to "fix" the inability to experience attraction, afaict the evidence is that aversions can sometimes be overcome (doesn't mean someone should feel obligated to) but one can't do anything about attraction (even if someone wants to).

[ryn2]

25 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

If someone is ace it's important to find someone that understands it and won't try to "fix" the inability to experience attraction

*nods*

[SusannaC]

HuborBub?, your situation resonates here.  I agree, effective communication is of major importance.  I relate however, to your statement about your wife not really being interested in what you have to say: my husband has been that way for years!  Real two way communication is difficult many times for us, and I’ve tried in so many ways to point that fact out... he has MUCH to say- but little true ability to listen when it matters.  A personality trait of his I suppose, but quite frustrating & a problem I’ve struggled with for years!  Communication and  absolute commitment to the relationship seem to be essential keys for making a mixed marriage work. I have read this many times here.   Not sure I have that key in my situation, but I wish you the best of luck in yours.

[ryn2]

Also, in my experience, communication tends to fail - or become really challenging - whenever the need to avoid/avoid facing an uncomfortable topic exceeds the desire to work together.  This can certainly mean the person avoiding talking no longer cares (enough) about their partner... but it can also mean the need to avoid the topic is pretty insurmountably strong.

 

Not that both situations don’t pose big problems.  The latter’s just a little more sympathy-worthy?

[HuborBub?]

My gut tells me this is about something entirely different than a mixed marriage. I’d really like whatever feedback anyone can offer, though, because I myself have been fairly solitary all my life and I am not sure I’ve ever even observed another relationship. All I know is this one marriage and as I examine it in a variety of contexts, many differnt descriptions may equally apply. What’s more, as I’ve attempted to discuss my concerns with my wife over the last couple of years, she has been largely non-responsive and, when she does respond, seems to say either I’m imagining problems that don’t exist or that she’s busy working with me to solve them and I just need to be more patient. ( I don’t see her doing anything to address our differences, including discuss them. Most of our conversations quickly devolve into a review of the various ways I’ve failed to give her a chance to respond.)  I sometimes think I’m being blatantly gaslighted by a serial narcissist (whether consciously or not) but other times I agree with her that it’s essentially all my fault.  

 

*deep breath*

 

FWIW I am pursuing a professional opinion, but only on my own.  My wife has quietly resisted couples counseling, most often saying she’d be glad to go but simply doesn’t have the opportunity to miss work or the financial freedom to see an out of network therapist with weekend hours.  

 

 

[ryn2]

Definitely go on your own.  Ultimately you may decide (avoiding) couples counseling is a dealbreaker, but you can address that later on.

[Traveler40]

5 hours ago, HuborBub? said:

My gut tells me this is about something entirely different than a mixed marriage. 

So, this confuses me given the shared post above on this platform of AVEN.  Hmm, what’s happening in your marriage seems to echo many stories here, so I’m not quite sure what we don’t know. You mention having examined multiple scenarios that might fit.  What do they include? What signs is she giving that lead you to believe it’s not a mixed relationship?

[HuborBub?]

4 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

 

[HuborBub?]

In some ways it seems to me to be impossibly complicated. 

 

It  may be very simple. 

 

I can’t say for sure she is asexual because the concept is new to me and she has mentioned it only two or three times over several years and not elaborated much.  

 

I know I have experienced quite a lot of frustration over most of the duration of our relationship, due to me being interested and she being not interested. 

 

We didn’t discuss it much and I developed resentment within the first couple of years. We still didn’t discuss it much, or anything else regarding our relationship really.  I came into the relationship passively pleasing, reluctant to meet my needs directly, and preferring to keep myself hidden and to “do the right thing” with just about every word and deed. (That doesn’t work out very well in the long run!).

 

So by by the time I started waking up a couple of years ago, I may have done incalculable damage in lost trust and respect. It could be that she’s not asexual at all, but rather repulsed by me as I have shown myself to be over many years. Perhaps she is faithful to a fault (or otherwise unable to give me the boot) and won’t tell it like it is, claiming asexuality and inconvenience to avoid the ugly truth. 

 

That’s the gist of the theory that it’s not a mixed marriage. Sub-theories include various unspecified  maladaptive behaviors. (I have a remarkable ability to see myself in a description of nearly any psycho-social malady.  If anyone has insight into this please help me understand.)

[anamikanon]

I have found a lot of relief after my ace and I moved to separate beds "by default". If he is willing to be sexual, he asks to sleep with me. If I am willing to be platonic, I ask him to stay. By default, unless there is explicit agreement, we sleep in separate beds. This is working out rather well for us. When we are together, we know we are on (relatively) similar frequencies about sex, and otherwise, we aren't guessing or accommodating to the other's preference. I don't get laid any more often than I would be if we slept together, but the lack of stress that I am sleeping with someone sexually disinterested in me is gone. For him too, he doesn't have to feel guilt about me being sleepless or frustrated, etc.

 

We spend the days together. Adore each other to bits. This is not at all a "separation" - merely separate sleeping arrangements that give both of us the space to be exactly how we are. We have actually become more affectionate now that the stress of the incompatibility is reduced.

[HuborBub?]

But, perhaps, her asexuality and our inability to properly identify it and to address our differences in a healthy way, are the primary factors in a subsequently complicated drama. 

 

Is it that she’s fundementally asexual and I am undeniably sexual?  

 

Or is it that we experienced interpersonal problems early in our marriage, which then slowly spiraled out of control?  

 

I’m sure we need to sort it out between us if we’re going to heal and grow.  I’ve  taken a hundred first steps, and not many second ones. 

[HuborBub?]

This is incredibly timely information!  

 

We just bought an inexpensive bed frame at IKEA last weekend.  

 

I am hoping for an arrangement similar to yours. In keeping with my compulsive timidity, I haven’t said it out loud. (I need to fix this, I know. I’m not sure how but I’m trying.). She says it is so that when I can’t sleep due to her snoring one of us can move to it.

 

Am I the only one who sees just how disconnected we are?  I am up night after night worried sick about the insurmountable distance between us, not to mention the direct effects of frustration (somehow every single day I think “maybe today’s the day!” Even though we’ve had sex twice in 3 years) and she not only sleeps soundly every night, but she chalks my insomnia up to snoring. 

 

Anyway, you’ve given me the courage to suggest this cosleeping arrangement and not just hope for the best. 

 

I think communcation is a bigger challenge than I have given it credit for. Like I said I grew up believing wholeheartedly that my natural thoughts and feelings are probably harmful or objectionable to others and should be kept secret and replaced with more socially acceptable substitutes. So as I’ve become aware of how wrong this is and how dangerous, I’ve been more or less blurting out my truth as it swells to the surface. If you can imagine the putrid odor of detritus bubbling up through still water and filling the air with stench... I have skeletons which were wonderful people when I locked them in the closet 30 years ago!  It’s not helping our relationship in the short term, though I believe it is ultimately for the best. 

[Telecaster68]

Whatever it is,and from what you've said, it's hard to know what's cause and what's effect, it's not going to get solved without communication. If there are things you need to do to transform your marriage as a whole, and the sex with it, you don't know what they are and you never will unless she explains her position honestly to you, so currently you're in a helpless position. Unlocking all this needs both of you engaged regardless of where responsibility lies.

 

Your initial reaction was much the same as mine, btw, and I beat myself up about it for ages. I could've handled parts of it better, but in the end, my wife just didn't want sex in her life and didn't understand why this would be a problem for me, so nothing would've been substantially different even if I'd been perfect.

 

ETA: I see the separateness very clearly. I think most sexuals in mixed relationship would. In the end, it's often that which kills off the relationship more than the absence of sex.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

I see the separateness very clearly. I think most sexuals in mixed relationship would.

She may see it as well, but if you have been providing/allowing other explanations for it (e.g., her snoring keeps you awake, which then leaves you exhausted and depressed), she may have believed you.

[anisotrophic]

2 hours ago, HuborBub? said:

Is it that she’s fundementally asexual and I am undeniably sexual?  

 

Or is it that we experienced interpersonal problems early in our marriage, which then slowly spiraled out of control?

I really really appreciate the way you're thinking about this.

 

Because this forum ends up seeing folks whose partners do not identify as asexual. And sometimes I do agree those partners are likely asexual -- plus some sort of communications issue, or discomfort with acceptance, etc.

 

But other times -- well -- asexuality is just a small subset of causes for the broad category of "sexual problems in marriage" (in clinical terms, "acquired" aversions/dysfunctions in the relationship). It's hard for me not to wonder, in a general way.

 

I get that there's simply shared experiences -- whether both partners are calling it "asexuality" may be beside the point? It walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, therefore it is a duck.

 

But on the other hand: I think the label kind of does matter because asexuality is an orientation, it's unchangeable. It's not "treatable" and shouldn't be treated as a malady. No matter how loving and caring an ace partner is, they cannot feel sexual attraction, even if they want to; it's like a gay or het person trying to feel bisexual.

 

I think you've perfectly captured these nuances. That it can be hard to tell, when it feels like an accumulation of pain over years makes it hard to sort through what's what -- that the spiral might involve asexuality -- but maybe a partner might even use the word "asexual" as cover for something harder to admit. And that you're at a stage right now where you're considering this as a hypothesis, knowing it could go either way.

 

In the end, most people have stories that seem more painful than my own, which is "just" an uncomplicated case of "asexual partner" (who is loving, communicates, respectful/caring of my sexuality, no other major stresses/struggles). My partner is willing to have sex, but it'll always be charity sex, and I've been learning to be happy with that.

 

I'm glad you found some advice with @anamikanon's bed situation helpful! And the way you're sorting through your needs and learning you need to prioritize yourself in a calm, constructive way -- and open to the potential for different explanations, and the short term vs long term changes to aim for -- you are sounding really thoughtful, I have no advice, I can only express sympathy, encouragement, and admiration for what sounds like a lot of improved mental & emotional health and constructive thinking.

[ryn2]

27 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

But on the other hand: I think the label kind of does matter because asexuality is an orientation, it's unchangeable. It's not "treatable" and shouldn't be treated as a malady. No matter how loving and caring an ace partner is, they cannot feel sexual attraction, even if they want to; it's like a gay or het person trying to feel bisexual.

 

I think you've perfectly captured these nuances. That it can be hard to tell, when it feels like an accumulation of pain over years makes it hard to sort through what's what -- that the spiral might involve asexuality -- but maybe a partner might even use the word "asexual" as cover for something harder to admit.

*nods*

 

The symptom may be the same (no/insufficient/grudging sex) but the root cause and with it any possible solutions... very different.

[ryn2]

30 minutes ago, anisotropic said:

In the end, most people have stories that seem more painful than my own, which is "just" an uncomplicated case of "asexual partner" (who is loving, communicates, respectful/caring of my sexuality, no other major stresses/struggles).

I feel like a lot of older (in/past college/uni timeframe) people who arrive here do so from a relationship where communication has broken down - or never existed in a way that allowed discussion of really deep, painful things - and are looking for the “why.”

[Traveler40]

3 hours ago, HuborBub? said:

But, perhaps, her asexuality and our inability to properly identify it and to address our differences in a healthy way, are the primary factors in a subsequently complicated drama. 

 

Is it that she’s fundementally asexual and I am undeniably sexual?  

 

Or is it that we experienced interpersonal problems early in our marriage, which then slowly spiraled out of control?  

 

I’m sure we need to sort it out between us if we’re going to heal and grow.  I’ve  taken a hundred first steps, and not many second ones. 

It appears you’ve defined the issue already: At the crux, there is a serious communication issue on both ends.  Therefore, you’re left in limbo and questioning.  Get the communication on track and that may lead you to solutions..  

[anamikanon]

5 hours ago, HuborBub? said:

She says it is so that when I can’t sleep due to her snoring one of us can move to it.

It is strange you say this, because when my ace and I used to sleep together and I was unable to sleep because of the sexual.... incompatibility causing me mental stress.... him snoring used to be the trigger for me to get out of bed and do something till I exhausted myself to the point I could sleep instantly on hitting the pillow. Funnily, both of us snore, and his snoring doesn't bother me at all after we have had sex or now, if I invite him over platonically.

[anewman]

6 hours ago, HuborBub? said:

We didn’t discuss it much and I developed resentment within the first couple of years. We still didn’t discuss it much, or anything else regarding our relationship really.  I came into the relationship passively pleasing, reluctant to meet my needs directly, and preferring to keep myself hidden and to “do the right thing” with just about every word and deed. (That doesn’t work out very well in the long run!).

This. For most of my life I felt instinctively bad about wanting things for no other reason than that I wanted them. Until I learned to accept that it's okay to want things just because, I was never able to communicate properly, without resentment and honestly about my needs. Course this only works when both partners are open to communicating properly, but you can at least make sure you're doing yourself all the favours you can.

 

Best of luck by the way, sounds like you know what you need to work on. That can be just as hard as the "how", sometimes.

[ryn2]

4 hours ago, anewman said:

For most of my life I felt instinctively bad about wanting things for no other reason than that I wanted them. Until I learned to accept that it's okay to want things just because, I was never able to communicate properly, without resentment and honestly about my needs

Same.